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User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that always bothered me is the rush of many (not all) WW to want to get on about *fixing the M*. Theres always a disclaimer that the affair is all their fault. BUT. The M was awful and contributed to the WW having a affair. The BH is often listed as inattentive and cold. No conversation. No sex. Neglectful. And abusive (at least emotionally).

What I hear when this is said is.

O poor little victim me. My horrible husband abused and neglected me so I became so desperate for attention that I had a affair.

Such a common theme.

Horse shit. Really was the M THAT bad? You would think the H would have noticed. Funny how so often I hear that the M was 50/50 the responsibility of both. And yes some how MY 50 percent is larger than hers.

Before WWs PA started she was in a EA with her OM. I didnt know what an EA was back then. I had no idea. But looking back thats what was going on. At least 5 years of a EA. Then according to my WW. OM wanted to take their relation to the *next level*.

But during that EA. And actually for years and years before it. WW was a total shit in our M. She was demeaning. Verbally abusive. Physically to if you count the times when she deliberately went in and broke something of mine. She put holes in our walls throwing crap around the house.

And yet Im the abusive one? Im the one that caused the problems in the M?

WW used to complain about me working to much. Working late. But if you were going to be confronted when you went home after work every night with Medusa. Wouldnt you stay late? I admit there were a few times when I knew the shit was going to really start to fly when I got home (oftimes for no apparent reason). And on those times I would deliberately work late so she would be asleep when I got in.

So M problems contributing to the environment that made the LTA possible? Why didn't I cheat then?

[This message edited by Razor at 3:52 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor, you just hit on the issue as to why I have been stuck. My WW really only now has started to take responsibility for her part of our relationship. I told my IC last week that my lack of forgiveness has to do with the whole marriage history, not the A. Among the typical WW reasons, my wife said she was lonely.

Ok, she was lonely. I had made a habit of withdrawing from her, creating distance. I went to grad school at night for 5 years. What she only realizes now is that it was for good reason. She was a rude, ungrateful bitch to me for a lot of our marriage. She also collected the 'brown stamps' of resentment and never let an opportunity to think bad of me go unused. She has a LOT of anxiety (big problem) and took it out on me for all these years. If I did not soothe her, then I was the problem. Now she is changing, thank goodness, and good for our marriage and recovery.

I am also very mad at myself for staying in a shitty marriage and not creating the constructive conflict to fix the M or get out. My own FOO at work big time. I accepted an equilibrium of a shitty M that at least (so I thought) featured fidelity and fiscal responsibility. Now I wish I had gotten some strange since we had an 'open' marriage. Why was I willing to accept so little for so long?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 4:12 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that always bothered me is the rush of many (not all) WW to want to get on about *fixing the M*. Theres always a disclaimer that the affair is all their fault. BUT. The M was awful and contributed to the WW having a affair. The BH is often listed as inattentive and cold. No conversation. No sex. Neglectful. And abusive (at least emotionally).

This IS a common theme and it's perpetrated by a lot of counselors and therapists.

The dynamic of that in my process was unusual in that we had those down & outs while she was involved in her affair but post dday, my wife never made a noise about The State of The M except to tell our last MC that we weren't there to talk about that stuff and it had no bearing.

Which leads me to firmly believe that any WS that goes to the But The Marriage Was Not Great even as a seemingly unrelated tangent is still fucking stuck on blaming the BS to some degree. From conversations with my wife, what she told me was that she watched me take ownership of my shit - drinking, smoking, too much coffee, poor diet - and work through them. A lot of those things were Problems In The Marriage but they were singularly MY problems and I dealt with them. Alone, unfortunately, but my taking responsibility for my actions and taking the years to change these things accounted for an obvious improvement to my quality of life - and by extension those around me.

So like that, Fucking Someone Else was a Problem In The Marriage in the sense that it was her problem, not mine. Well it was mine too but y'all get what I mean. The attitudes and behaviors that contributed to that escapism were things she had to work on - with my support, sure, but it was hers to resolve.

The truly insidious theme to all of this when I finally swing my crazy ass around to the original point is this: somehow many people allow themselves to be convinced that an affair is somehow other than a Problem In The Marriage. We see all the time the posts about Pre-A and Post-A marking it as some sort of delimiter. What about Pre-smoking and Post-smoking? We don't say that shit around here. Occasionally there will be comments like "I'm glad I don't go stand in the fucking cold to imbibe cancerous char these days because it looks like Loki tried to take a piss out there and it froze to his dick the way that tree is covered in ice and slush" kind of shit. Not as a qualifier for every fucking thing possible, from counseling to food. Somehow, even though an affair is nearly always an unknown to the BS, and qualifies 100% as escapist and abusive behavior, it is a *relationship problem* thereby automagically marking it as an issue for both parties. It's seen as a series of disagreements culminating in one big and tragic misunderstanding, rather than a vicious and cruel betrayal akin to spousal rape.

I mean try to say "Pre-spousal rape the M was terrible" sometime and watch as at least three women in the world somewhere perfect a device to cock punch you through the Internet in 30 seconds or less. The term is fucking absurd. "Pre-blackout drinking binges the M was terrible" is another great one. "Hey kids, daddy drinks because mommy is a whore and if we were to call her a bicycle it'd have to be designed by NASA because that bitch can get around faster than the Ulysses Space Probe" is pretty much on par with bringing up Marriage Problems in reference to an affair.

"Post A" my wife didn't go there, and it still pisses me off. I guess partly because while I was in the dark I got to hear all that shit and I tried to fix it. I'm glad I don't have to hear it now because I'd probably go the kind of batshit crazy that would require a character portrayal written by Palahniuk (sp?) to be portrayed by Johnny Depp. Probably not, actually, but it sounds kind of cool.

There is no 50/50 in the M. There is 100/100.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7107 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd probably go the kind of batshit crazy

I'd pay to see what that looks like. Or reads like.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred, I would too. Derleth and Lovecraft meet Kubrick.

Crap

[This message edited by 5454real at 10:54 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah well, pay SI. For the magic of such presence.
Tuck this in your pocket for when you might need it SG, it is often thought and stated that we're stuck on wound-licking or something on here. I think; "Not so" because besides some paying forward, there is actual genius. Inspired much? You betcha. New words for the wordsmiths? uh huh -

Like the Kentucky river flowing west out of the mountains, straining to get north to the Ohio. Can't get through Lexington and its damnable limestone bedrock, it goes around: *I will get there, you watch* - and it does. So too, I feel watered and nourished by such effort.
It's immense...it's inevitable, like *the truth*, like, *I don't change* beyoch, Ima gonna get there.

I feel like the watered fields of the iron-growing bluegrass. Automagically enriched with the certainty that "PROBLEMS IN THE M" is, are, were, and always will be a dreadful dodge. A heaped-on abuse of the shuddered souls of GOOD MEN.
There is a song now.
In me.
It's FTN, for the soundtrack of Marble Collectors.

In a redneck rap kinda way...

Pull on your boots, button your bib,
While we spin some tales from the crib.
We freestyle and we ad lib,
Sippin' on rum and Mr. Pibb.

Yeah, we spit - because we chew.
Most of the females around here "Moo"!
Hip hop's what those bunny rabbits do.
Gangsta's Al Capone and his crew.

'Round here only the river flows.
Bling's how our Chinese cell phone goes.
You'll find us out back in the corn rows,
Gettin' down low with our britches and hoes.

Just in case you're wonderin',
We're not in the hood -- we're under it.
Keepin' that old pickup a-runnin',
So we can load a couple ton in.

We got drive thrus, not drive bys.
The grill is where we get our fries.
Junk in the trunk is no surprise --
Takin' it to those scrap-metal guys.

'Round here only the river flows.
Bling's how our Chinese cell phone goes.
You'll find us out back in the corn rows,
Gettin' down low with our britches and hoes

Keep our pants up to hide our briefs.
Keep our "dew" rags up our sleeves.
They're our morning handkerchiefs --
No gang colors or motifs.

You got ridin' beats; we got red beets.
No SWAT teams at our swap meets.
Oatmeal is what's in our bowl;
Tootsie is just how we roll.

'Round here only the river flows.
Bling's how our Chinese cell phone goes.
You'll find us out back in the corn rows,
Gettin' down low with our britches and hoes.

Six Pack is our local poet;
A bud wiser and he knows it.
Field of rhyme -- he mows it.
For better or verse -- he throws it.

"Weed" is always plural down here;
That's we all love our old John Deere.
Forty's how many acres we clear.
Long neck's how we like our beer.

'Round here only the river flows.
Bling's how our Chinese cell phone goes.
You'll find us out back in the corn rows,
Gettin' down low with our britches and hoes.

Pull on your boots, button your bib,
While we spin some tales from the crib.
We freestyle and we ad lib,
Sippin' on rum and Mr. Pibb.

Blunt is just the way we talk.
You'll always know what we're sayin'.
Ours is the straight and narrow walk --
All truth with none of that playin'.

'Round here only the river flows.
Bling's how our Chinese cell phone goes.
You'll find us out back in the corn rows,
Gettin' down low with our britches and hoes.


Yeah. What SG said.


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:11 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never met my wife's AP

Nor have I. This is the next hurdle I need to prepare myself for and one which I dread. STBX has wasted no time in inserting him into my kids' lives, despite the clear distress it causes my DS (nine), who knows very well who this "man" is and why I am divorcing mommy.

I have played out in my mind many scenarios, from the typical hurting him very badly, to delivering a cool speech, to ignoring completely. I do not have it in me to be cordial to him, but I suppose I must swallow the bitter pill and do so for the sake of my children (assuming they will be witnessing us being in the same space). My STBX has taken great care thus far that we do not meet. But of course it is an inevitability, particularly as she is likely pregnant and is moving in with him.

How did or do you handle it? I am pretty sure I can control myself physically, but what about the emotional aftermath? Triggering back to square one emotionally is what I fear, as I have come such a long way. (One silver lining, and I hope I don't come across as an arrogant or egotistical ass: he is clearly much less attractive than I am. Saw one pic. During false R, even the STBX told me this. At least this dulls the knife slightly.)

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1462 | Registered: Dec 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One silver lining, and I hope I don't come across as an arrogant or egotistical ass: he is clearly much less attractive than I am.
I wouldn't worry about coming across like that...we tend to be pretty confident group down here, methinks.

I'd hold my head high, if I were you. That guy is beneath you...and he knows it. I re-posted a long-ish item by WAL back on page 30...might help you to check it out.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pretty similar sitch Abbondad)))

I was able to avoid poser contact entirely - years - what possible situation would bring us together? I couldn't think of one...until my son's wedding.

I was definitely stressed about it. I successfully ignored him. One of the guys here told me to thank him for the weight-loss haha!


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was able to avoid poser contact entirely - years - what possible situation would bring us together? I couldn't think of one...until my son's wedding.

I was definitely stressed about it. I successfully ignored him. One of the guys here told me to thank him for the weight-loss haha!

I have yet to see him, but one thing that still lingers in me is the need to beat his ass. I hope we never see each other, if so I am certain it would take a great deal of restraint not to have a physical altercation. I wish I had the strength to come back with the weightloss joke, but I am afraid today it wouldnt go down that way. Area for growth I guess.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Nov 2010
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I have alternated between thoughts of beating OM' ass and saying something shocking/clever.

I seem to have ruled both out. As much as I think evey POSER deserves a good ass beating, there are practical reasons not to go that route.

As far as saying something clever, it's hard to have a sense of humor when it comes to the destruction of my family.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh I understand there is little to be gained from the ass beating, short of a primal release. But

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 10:29 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Nov 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been completely avoiding TOS's side of town primarily for this reason. Three years out, and I don't know if I could restrain myself. This was a long term double betrayal, and he reveled and gloated in what he was doing behind my back. I somehow doubt if my work will allow me to telecommute from a correctional facility, so I try my best to avoid that part of town.

Love the tune, JJCT!! I see a menz jam session in the future...


Posts: 4549 | Registered: Dec 2010
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as beating the OM into oblivion. BTDT in a previous relationship.

Trust me. You will get no satisfaction and you lose enough respect for yourself that you bring yourself on par with your WW. Also physical altercations in this day and age almost always have consequences for the aggressor.

I get the fantasy, don't get me wrong.

Regarding martial issues. Luckily my W was quick to point out that the A had nothing to do with the state of the M. She had issues. If anything, I enabled her depression. You know by pickling up the slack and trying to pressure her to get help. If that makes me a bad husband, I guess I am a bad husband.

Marital issues have a funny way of back firing on some WWs. While they may blame the M and by extension their BH, it is fair to say that many of the M issues can be attributed to their own dysfunction and shortcomings. The big difference being a BH did not pursue that blond from accounting to remedy issues within a M.

So the stand pat answer for me was always, "If the M was so bad it made you cheat, why did I not cheat ? I was just as miserable, but did not act out in a damaging way." It sounds like I am saying I am better than my W. Well, when it comes to fidelity, I am apparently much better at staying faithful than my W. She has to change that if she wants me to stay in the M. No room for negotiating that. I also need assurances of that to prove I am not a moron for agreeing to keep her in my life.

A MC can't agree with you on that as they are trying to stay neutral, but just because the MC doesn't agree with you openly does not make it a lie.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
Justgreatnews
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Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still in the same mindset of LordHasaplan. (with the handle its ironic to talk about this, eh?)

I already detailed my attempt to get him to come out and face up to me, which he completely ran from.

Right now I see that getting to him could cost me, yet I know someday I will confront him. There's just no other way.

[This message edited by Justgreatnews at 7:28 AM, December 19th (Thursday)]


Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So the stand pat answer for me was always, "If the M was so bad it made you cheat, why did I not cheat ? I was just as miserable, but did not act out in a damaging way."

There is a dark flip side to this.

If *M problems* is linked to the LTA. And because we didnt cheat but our WW did. Then our WW must have been more unhappy than us.

If *M problems* are 50/50 then our 50% must have been as abuser and our WW 50% must have been as the abused.

This is utter crap IMO. I was in a terrible M. WW was impossible to be around. Vile. Abusive. Manipulative. Just horrible. And yet in her view I was the abuser and she was pushed into cheating by me.

There is another view WW has come up with.

So not only did I make her so miserable in the M that she was vulnerable. OM was manipulative and took advantage of her weakness.

So she gets to be this virtuous woman that was abused in her M by her BH (me) and then was taken advantage of by a predator OM. The problem then and the reason she had her affair was that all men are bad.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as beating the OM into oblivion. BTDT in a previous relationship.

Yes, I intellectually know this and I am sure I will never get to make the fantasy come true.

She has to change that if she wants me to stay in the M. No room for negotiating that.

This is exactly where I am. She and my M has to be so much more than it was, or is, going forward if I am willing to stay in this marriage. Good thing is the M is on an upward trajectory and continuing that way. Some day I will wake up next to my wife, over loved, over sexed and over joyed to have stayed. In my mind, ill wake next to her wearing some kind of victoria secrets wings and all and then I will know I made the right choice to stay.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Nov 2010
spond
♂ Member
Member # 41686
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my mind, ill wake next to her wearing some kind of victoria secrets wings and all and then I will know I made the right choice to stay.

YES... I'm not the only one who watched the sexiest night of TV.


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 276 | Registered: Dec 2013
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry i haven't posted in a few days. The last couple days have been pretty bad. The whole book thing went down and at one point got so bad that I was screaming and punching the steering wheel of the one of our cars.... Not my proudest moment... Anyway back on topic.

I almost ran into her OM...literally.... In the middle of an isles at Wal-Mart. And I just so happened to be holding my daughter or I would have clocked him right there... I went to the next isles over and almost collapsed with anger. Had to squat down while holding her..... Not fun.


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, December 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to hear that. That had to be hell.

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
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