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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To speak about my view of the public perception of WW and BH I have to use some generalizations. Everyone is different so no specific person will match my perception as stated here. YMMV. And in the end I may well be completely full of shit anyway.

The norm out side of those who have experience with infidelity seems to be to blame the BS no mater if its a BW or BH. But I feel it is more true with a BH.

The perception as I see it is that WW are *driven* to cheat by their lousy husbands. Either they were abusive. Either physically or emotionally. Or they lacked ambition and did not provide for the family. Or they had a porn or alcohol or gaming or some other addiction. They neglected their wives and so they were put in a weakened state and finally some OM came along and swept them off their feet.

OMs are also seen as the bad guys at times. Basically these OM lied and tricked their way into the wifes pants. He took advantage of their weakness and corrupted them. So NONE of the fault lies with the WW. Because she was first neglected and abused by her BH. And then taken advantage of by the OM.

I do believe this whole scenario is often applied to BW. But being a BH I see it more from my own POV.

Often *M issues* are given as the *reason* for the LTA. While some point out that WE were in the same M and did not cheat. The argument in response is that our WW were more unhappy than we where and that is why they cheated and we did not. And why were they more unhappy? Obviously because we were being typical shitty men.

Sadly I feel that many MC and IC fall into this belief.

There is really nothing we can do about this state of affairs. The propaganda is out there. And we are living proof that none of it is true. Propaganda often trumps truth though.

I think that many people WANT to believe that the BS is at fault when then learn of a LTA. Why? Well if the BH was a dick and somehow made his WW cheat. Then they can avoid that happening to them just by not being a dick. So blaming the BS gives them a false sense of security.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that many people WANT to believe that the BS is at fault when then learn of a LTA. Why? Well if the BH was a dick and somehow made his WW cheat. Then they can avoid that happening to them just by not being a dick. So blaming the BS gives them a false sense of security.

Yes, being a dick was actually when my wife pulled her head from her ass and stopped screwing around.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1798 | Registered: Nov 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm pretty open-minded, and I try not to be judgmental. WRT relationships, I'm pretty much OK with whatever consenting adults decide for their own relationships.

Before my W's A, I always suspected - I never thought I knew, just suspected - that if one partner cheated, it was because something was missing in their relationship, and each partner bore responsibility.

I don't remember clearly, but I believe I thought more of the blame rested on the cheater's shoulders - but I still thought both parties were responsible for one partner's cheating. I never thought the ap was to blame. (I'm not arguing here, just sharing my old opinions.)

Now I believe the cheater is solely responsible for cheating, though both partners were likely to be responsible for M issues outside the A. Now I see some aps are predatory - but I still think WSes should have just said 'no'. (A partner who was forced is a rape victim, not a WS.)

That view could come from selfishness, but I agree that the crucial fact that 'proves' the WS is totally responsible for cheating is that both people were in the same M, but only one cheated.

The only thing I can think of that possibly can change 'society's' view is for healed BSes and WSes to spread the message - but that will out us, and I don't think that will happen.

I wish I had known better, though.


FBH (me) - 65+, FWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together almost 49 (as of January, 2014)
DDay - 12/2010
Almost Recovered
I share my own experience not because I'm a good model but because it's the only experience I know.

Posts: 8917 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had known better, though.

Definitely with you on this one. I'm getting to the point of thinking that there needs to be some kind of M class prior to the event. One that covers everything, including infidelity. Mandatory of course.

I'm thinking that might not go over too well in today's *instant gratification* society though. Too much work.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are other ways besides infidelity to end a M. If a man is being a selfish jerk throughout his M then he's increasing the odds that something bad will eventually happen but the ultimate decision and blame still lies strictly with the cheater.

If a man insults me, I have a choice on how I respond. He may have started it but if I choose to respond with violence then the law will hold me accountable. It's about the choices we make. Infidelity is no different.

Some people are like a ticking time bomb that will eventually go off no matter how they are treated. Even if I had done everything perfectly throughout my M(which is impossible...at least in my case) Mrs. Kite would have eventually imploded anyway. I'll take the blame for not being perfect but she has to take the blame for her negative choices.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A mandatory class AND get rid of no-fault divorce.

Before me and WW got married our church had us go through a class. Didnt help obviously. But the class was run by church people and nothing was said about infidelity..


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, all for the idea of preventive education. However, have you ever tried to tell a younger man who is about to marry the lesson you have learned? They will look at you like you are out of your mind.

Can't happen to me. I am sure I was the same way.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't happen to me. I am sure I was the same way.

Absolutely. What, do you think my pickers broken?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If a man insults me, I have a choice on how I respond. He may have started it but if I choose to respond with violence then the law will hold me accountable. It's about the choices we make. Infidelity is no different.

Great analogy. I may steal that from you sometime in the future.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wonderboy,

I've been on vacation, just read the last few pages and your thread in R. I'm so sorry. I'm glad you're moving forward, but I wish it were toward R. It sounds like you've healed; but your W hasn't, so R is impossible.

I wonder if the guilt is really sadness, anger, or fear stemming from the end of R. In any case, why not let yourself feel guilty? - And thereby let the guilt go.

To better days, brother.

WRT the Berchts, JNRPA will still have to do the work she needs to do. There's no magic for this.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:24 PM, December 9th (Monday)]


FBH (me) - 65+, FWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together almost 49 (as of January, 2014)
DDay - 12/2010
Almost Recovered
I share my own experience not because I'm a good model but because it's the only experience I know.

Posts: 8917 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But the class was run by church people and nothing was said about infidelity..

That's funny, because the Bible is full of verses about infidelity. The Book of Proverbs is probably about 3,000 years old, and there are verses warning young single men to stay away from wayward wives. It could have been written this year, nothing has changed. Jesus cited "sexual immorality" as the only Biblical grounds for divorce.

It's a human condition. In a world without morality or consequences, I'd love to have a harem filled with beautiful women of all shapes, sizes, hair/skin color, and nationalities whose only purpose in life would be to stay fit and satisfy my desires. After all, I'm a man who's attracted to women, and the sexual variety would be awesome. Since I would probably not have a sultan's resources even if I lived in a world without morality or consequences, my only option would be to find a girlfriend and get a little something on the side. And that would be wonderful if I lived in that world - why sleep with one woman when you can have two? Maybe three?

But I live in the real world, where people you love get hurt by selfish and promiscuous behavior. Badly. Sadly, that obvious danger wasn't enough to keep our wives in line. I can't imagine coming home to my wife and kids every day knowing that I was putting their happy, intact home in extreme jeopardy. My wife did just that every day for 10 months and might still be doing it if I didn't catch her. But maybe you have to be in an affair to truly understand its addictive nature.

All marriage classes should devote a significant time to infidelity. It would help if couples or divorced persons who have experienced cheating from both sides could get involved and share their painful stories.

It's worth a shot at least. My wife grew up seeing the painful fallout of cheating. Her family is plagued by it, so she got a hard knocks education on the subject. Didn't slow her down at all. As far as I can tell, she cheated the first time she was seriously tempted.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sup fellas.

So the crazy started last night. We got into an argument about some stupid family shit and her lies. I was actually pretty calm, but no I shouldn't have engaged.

She demanded that I leave the house, and threatened to call the police and tell them that I was abusing her if I didn't leave. Ummmm, What. The. Fuck? I wasn't even raising my voice. Called her bluff and didn't leave. I doubt she would expose the kids to the police coming over on a DV call (it was only 7:00 p.m. they were still up).

So, it is time to get a VAR and to start recording conversations to protect myself. Sheesh. Let the crazy begin.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

Great post. There's some fantastic insight there.


I'm pretty much OK with whatever consenting adults decide for their own relationships.

Yeah, that's my philosophy. Whatever happens between a man, and a woman, and another woman, and a goat, dwarf, llama, and tub of butter is all up to them. As long as it's consenting. My objection is I didn't consent to my wife fucking other men. If she would have asked, I'd have said no. Then we could have divorced nice and amicably, and I wouldn't be see a therapist every week.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do any of you guys think your WW was in love with her OM?

My WW had a long EA before the PA even started. She had known OM for a VERY long time. I have also seen the letters they wrote to each other.

I think she was/is in love with him.

Not that it matters much I suppose. But what are your thoughts?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Tred. WB, sorry you're going through that buddy.

Razor, my WW claims that she "learned to love" the OM over time, although she dumped him with apparent ease after getting caught. The initial leap into adultery was motivated by attraction and curiosity. She actually used the latter term to describe her motivation. I wasn't betrayed for anything as noble as falling in love, unfortunately. Not that FIL excuses bad behavior, but we can all relate to how that scrambles your brain.

As far as I can tell, the main attraction for my wife was a man who listened to her and fed her ego. Once the PA started, it became an escape from the mundane realities of daily life. A guilty pleasure that she somehow felt she had earned.

Head-up-the-ass, in other words.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 8:39 PM, December 9th (Monday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, it is time to get a VAR and to start recording conversations to protect myself. Sheesh. Let the crazy begin.

Sorry brother. It's all about the control isn't it?

I forget, does her family know about the A? Not recommending you out her as a vindictive move, but a self preservation move. It might put your actions in a different light for them.

Had the XW file a false DV on me. Luckily she tried going through the courts first rather than the police. Keep that VAR near and dear brother.

Man, they all go off the deep end when they realize that they don't control us anymore.

Strength


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
DazedWI
♂ Member
Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor, I can tell you my wife "is in love" with other man as I found a scratch piece of paper with her signature but his last name. When I asked her to choose me after finding out, she choose him even though everyone knows she has been played by someone that does this for a living. She is of the mindset of blaming me for the way her life is now because the OM doesn't want anything to do with her now that it has been found out. She is so high on her immediate needs that she acts more like a crack addict than a normal person.


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really don't think it's a good idea to get rid of no fault. I think a better idea would be to actually enforce it and not fuck over one party or the other. I don't understand how something can be no fault and then shiv a guy with lifetime alimony or leave a SAHM with fifty grand in debt or something. Divorce should be easier, marriage should be harder.

as for being in love, I dunno. I think not, especially since I found an email that said how it was a lot less complicated that she figured out she wasn't really in love with him, but you can never really know the inside of somebody's head. Well, I mean you can if you smash it open with a hammer or something or use that nightmare machine from Dreamscape but you just make a big fucking mess with Snake Men running around and that's arguably worse, really. Especially in the winter, all that gore would freeze and the Snake Men would skid around at high speeds and they're already fucking creepy enough, high speed Snake Men, fuck that.

I think she was too angry and pissed off and hurt to be in love with anything at the time.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife did not love the OM. I know this because she told me so.

Anyway, she seemed perplexed when I was indifferent. She asked if I would have preferred that she had feelings for him.

Well, my first choice would have been that she not fuck him at all. But short of that, I don't know how much peace I can take from the fact it was just fucking. Yay.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awesome. Dreamscape reference. Fucking awesome


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
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