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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lex71,
You know the truth, she certainly knows the truth. There is no need for proof. Asking for proof is a ploy to learn how much you know. You know enough. Ball is in her court to convince you she is worth giving another chance, or at least not divorcing immediately while you make up your mind.

Her confessing with a timeline would be a good first step in proving she wants you.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lex, it seems like you may think that if you handle this just right that:

1. Maybe you will wake up from a bad dream and none of this will be real. Well, you know that's not the case. I know it's hard - for a while I had arguments with my wife that I knew there was no point in. I kept engaged in the process, for no real reason.

or,

2. If you handle it just right she will become a different person or magically see the light.

You need to let go of the outcome. It's not your job to convince her to become a decent, loving partner. Your job is to take care of you. It's her job to convince you she wants to stay and become the woman you deserve. If she is not so inclined, you can't change her.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ Losfer

Had some Monkey Shoulder on Friday. Smooth drinkable, mild after taste. Good drinking whiskey. Had a little extra watching the Big Lebowski on Satellite, great movie. Not as cold in the NE yet, but what you get I usually get a few days later. Thanks for the suggestion. I will take up the Tamuv . . ., that other one, next friday. Remind me guys.

((WB))

Sorry man. I have said many a time that effort counts at least as much as effect. If you are moving on mentally, keep moving. Life is too short to be attached to a bail and chain that is always trying to drown you in the sea of their dysfunction.

Sit, watch, look for the crazy. That way you can avoid it again in the next chapter of your life. The indignation of your WW kind of shocks me sometimes. You deserve better.

Best of luck navigating the holidays. Your background probably helps you, no harm in laying the groundwork. At least it helps focus on the outcome and know that your life is going to be free from the crazy (as much as it can be one day).

FP

The WALism was lost on me the first time I read it, but now it makes more sense. I got to break my KISA tendencies and I get more than I receive often. A much better way to live. I agree that most of the post A recovery stuff is geared towards BW. Most even use the pronouns (His affair, His remorse, etc.) A different double standard no one, except us, seems to be worried about. In my experience, most MC are inherently misandrist too. One major reason I have refused or fired any MC I had.

Would I ever agree that this was the best thing that ever happened to me ? Not in a million years. This was the worst thing that ever happened to me and there was a lot to compete with. I am better today in spite of the dysfunction my W brought into my life. I overcame it. I am just that awesome. I have my bad days, but I can get out of the hole by myself now. I don't need my M, honestly it would probably make my life easier. However I want my M because it adds more good things to my life than it costs me. At least it does today. I'll worry about tomorrow when tomorrow gets here.

Anyway that was way too much touchy feeling crap for one day. Going to watch the packers lose to the falcons now. I have to figure out Sunday night dinner too. I am thinking despite the temp, it is a protein heavy evening from the grill. Take care of yourselves gents.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2455 | Registered: May 2010
lostandhopless
♂ Member
Member # 41568
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well, I'm glad I found this Place. But really sux to be here. My story is on "just found out". It's been 2 weeks and 2 days, I know my ride isn't over but here's where I'm at, I offered to work things through she said "go fuck yourself" so I gave her what she asked for I filed for divorce knowing she is gonna come out of the fog the minute things get hard for her and she starts losing her house, her car, her phone, electricity, cable, food. but hey gave her what she wanted just like I always do. If she snaps out of it she needs to come back to me or in 4 months her world will crash because of what she did. just like mine did.


Even your shadow will abandon you when it's dark.....

Posts: 97 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: WI
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandhopless - Read your profile. I have a lot of patience but damn, how have you been able to put up with it? Start by putting yourself first immediately. It seems that's exactly what others in your life have been doing at your expense. If WW had said "go fuck yourself" to me or anything even close to that, I'd be posting in the Divorce/Separation section here at SI.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
DazedWI
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Member # 41432
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone tell me what happens when you spouse is held in contempt for not following temporary orders?

[This message edited by DazedWI at 11:36 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]


ME (29) - BS
Her (29) - STBXWW
Dday - 10/25/2013
Married - 7/2007
Been Together - 9/2003

Posts: 83 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Midwest
Sproket
♂ Member
Member # 41262
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

evening gents,

Well I had a physical set back. My knee told me no to the seasonal job.
The funny thing is my WW finally saw how painful my injury is and now is more understanding. I guess she demonized me in her brain that she never noticed how injured I was.

Now my WW wants to take time off from work to help me out, and use leave time after I get surgery to take care of me but I told her no.

I just will not depend on her I don't have the confidence in my WW being there for me.

Anyway MC has been interesting.
WW now wants to have IC at another therapist which doesn't bother me.


ME:BS 40
W: WW 40
M: Oct 2009
D.D Nov 2, 2013

Posts: 68 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: VA
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My brother surprised me with my Christmas present a bit early today. He apparently spent the day yesterday tearing apart and fixing my motorcycle. I'm going to ride to work tomorrow and am finding an excuse to deliver some stuff to our other center as well. Should be a great day! :)

Posts: 1314 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Arizona
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h0peless
That was an awesome present from your brother. Happy for you.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3363 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone tell me what happens when you spouse is held in contempt for not following temporary orders? I still have not been put on her insurance and our hearing was two weeks ago. Haven't heard a peep about it...

Willful contempt can result in a little jail time. It may be that she has submitted it to HR and it's in the works. If you are both represented by attorneys you may want to have your attorney write her atty a letter checking on the status.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my experience, most MC are inherently misandrist too.
I don't think it's necessarily misandry per se (at least not usually or intentionally) as much as, like WAL said, marriage in general tends to be a feminized institution. That's not a value judgment. I'm not saying that it's bad as conceived that way, only that I think it tends to 'fit' a little better for most women versus most men. So when couples go to MC, the general idea of "what do we want this marriage to look like?" trends toward the cultural ideal.
Would I ever agree that this was the best thing that ever happened to me ? Not in a million years. This was the worst thing that ever happened to me and there was a lot to compete with. I am better today in spite of the dysfunction my W brought into my life. I overcame it. I am just that awesome. I have my bad days, but I can get out of the hole by myself now. I don't need my M, honestly it would probably make my life easier. However I want my M because it adds more good things to my life than it costs me. At least it does today. I'll worry about tomorrow when tomorrow gets here.
I agree here. I can't ever imagine a day when I go, "Oh, the affair resulted in me having the best marriage ever!!!" That being said, as terrible as it has been, it's also not the worst thing that could EVER happen to me. It's really fucking close, but not the top.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Along the same lines, does anybody else feel that has betrayed MEN we are viewed differently than say a betrayed woman? Or is this just my pain talking? Let me explain…

It seems to me that when a MAN cheats it's because he is a pig. Can't keep it in his pants, only thinks about sex, leads with his dick, etcetera. Everybody feels bad for his woman because, well, men are pricks, right? But when a woman cheats, while close friends and family might feel bad for the man, there is this underlying current of "what's wrong with HIM?" Why would a woman go elsewhere? Her man must be deficient in some way, right? Not being a good husband or something?

My wife likes to watch The Good Wife. I don't see the appeal, but whatever. If the hockey game is on I'll take the remote, if not I'll watch her show with her. Now granted I don't pay all that close attention to it, but it seems to me that the husband cheated with a bunch of sleazy prostitutes, because he's a pig. On the other hand, when the "good" wife sleeps around it's with smart, good looking, intelligent and caring guys. Guys who are giving her what her husband couldn't or wouldn't. That theme seems to appear all the time, from the Bridges of Madison County to The Wedding Singer. The woman finds "true love" with her AP, and leaves the dick-of-a-husband/boyfriend who was no good for her anyways. Or in the case of "Bridges" gives up her chance at happiness to stay with her boring old family. She's somehow a "hero" for cheating on her husband, but staying with him anyways. A man when he cheats, well he's just a jerk, and if it's a feel good movie finds redemption and returns to his long-suffering wife - or she kicks him out in a burst of feminist super-power.

I'm not trying to be anti-feminism here, but it just seems to me anyways that there is a double-standard when it comes to the way we view betrayed men versus betrayed women. Everybody on this site, man or woman, knows that when you are betrayed you feel like it's your fault, at least initially. But does anybody else feel that society views it differently?


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal,

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Hellz yes.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

does anybody else feel that has betrayed MEN we are viewed differently than say a betrayed woman?

Well of course. Lifetime, the oprah channel and hallmark channel exist to have full days dedicated to this very mantra. If a the oprah channel says so doesnt that make it TRUTH?
yes its a very different brand of shit sandwich we need to choke down because of it. The assumption isnt that the WW is broken it has to be the inadequacy of her husband.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1796 | Registered: Nov 2010
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal-

I agree with most of what you said there. This whole experience has certainly made me watch any sort of media with a much different eye than I did before. I went on a long rant at work the other day about music and pop culture in general and how it's modeling destructive ideals for both men AND women....and the three young women I was addressing looked at me like I had two heads.

I mean, I'm only 30, but when I sit back and watch pop culture and get disgusted with what I see and then voice that to someone, I feel like an old person, you know?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess it depends on the demographic you're aiming at. If you're watching shit aimed at women then the sympathetic protagonists are going to be women, because that's the audience. Women on trampolines isn't something you're going to find on Lifetime.

I agree completely that there are a ton of romantic (genre) films out there where the dude is a complete fail and the chick is a heroine for cheating, but romantic (genre) is not really something guys give a fuck about normally outside of the "I'm watching this with my wife/gf/female of note" so the writers play to their audiences.

Comics, sci-fi and fantasy, other shit that is traditional guy demographics - it's hard to find a woman who isn't showing off a killer rack AND ass in the same shot (that must take some serious fucking yoga time), or who isn't fantasy material in some way even if she's a psychotic bitch. Look at Morrigan in DAO, I can't be the only guy who thinks she's fucking awesome even if she's trying to give birth to a god that will eat the world and destroy everybody or something.

I think it's a problem, but a potentially worse problem is the lack of recognition that men are in many ways just as objectified as women are when it comes to media and society in general. Given that lack of acknowledgement it feels very, I dunno, lonely.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7095 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Look at Morrigan in DAO, I can't be the only guy who thinks she's fucking awesome

Add me to that list.

Self help, Lifetime, romantic movies, 50 shades of whatever . . .all written to play on women's fantasy's. That can be fine as long as one keeps boundaries between the two. Sadly some people are like kids and they want to play out in real life what they have absorbed in their escape.

I had an argument with my W about this and equated it with how she did not like porn.

Both create unrealistic ideals that a real life relationship can never attain. If porn is bad for relationships, so are bodice rippers. They are basically male and female versions of the same idea. Getting your fires stoked somewhere else other than at home is dangerous wether they be emotional or physical in nature. It also makes the next steps in real life seem familiar or dare I say acceptable ?

When a woman would rather read her romance novel than interact with her husband, that is a problem.

When a man would rather watch porn than be intimate with his wife, again, problem.

Using the cheap and addictive gender/personality appropriate version of these things may easier than asking for what you need, but at quite a cost to the relationship.

Some women would argue that point and it goes to show you that there are multiple double standards that use the puritanical histrionics of our society to it's own end. Luckily I made my point with the only woman whose opinion I find valid (She likewise made her point with me).


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2455 | Registered: May 2010
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the ways my wife and I had grown apart is that all she ever cared to watch on TV was pure trash reality crap. She is an educated woman, but said it gave her a break after thinking all day. To me, it is nothing more than a display of low standards. I don't want to be around such people in real life, and I don't want to hear the nonsense blaring through the TV.

Even now, I will walk in and see her watching some shit like basketball wives and I just can't believe she can stomach that drama. It's not like we don't have enough turmoil in our own lives that we need to look for a commercial version.

The season finale of the bachelor or bacherotette becomes their version of the Super Bowl. Gather the kids, cook some popcorn and text your buddies. Think I will go throw up now.

[This message edited by Later at 10:32 AM, December 9th (Monday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Along the same lines, does anybody else feel that has betrayed MEN we are viewed differently than say a betrayed woman?

Yeah, we seem to be deficient at fulfilling our wives' needs, as best I understand what society has been telling me these last 10 months. Women usually get the benefit of the doubt when their husband steps out on them. He's just an immoral horn dog.

But BWs don't always get off 100%. I've heard speculation that a wayward husband must not have been "getting any at home" for him to resort to having an affair. He's such a great guy, after all.

I think we can all agree that it makes no sense to blame a betrayed spouse because their WS checked his/her morals and integrity at the door and decided to engage in bad behavior. Marriage represents real life, with all of its challenges, obstacles and heartaches. An affair is all about fantasy and escapism to a world where crying kids, mortgages, bills, morning breath and 6:00 a.m. alarm clocks do not exist. If a wayward doesn't have the tools (maturity, integrity, morals, self-control) to resist the temptation to escape, then there's really nothing the BS can do about it. The affair(s) is/are going to happen sooner or later.

That doesn't mean the BS shouldn't do a lot to become a better and more attentive spouse if the couple decides to R, or even if they decide to D (better for the next wife), but that should come from a desire to be a better overall person. Might as well make the best out of a really bad situation.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went on a long rant at work the other day about music and pop culture in general and how it's modeling destructive ideals for both men AND women

Both create unrealistic ideals that a real life relationship can never attain. If porn is bad for relationships, so are bodice rippers. They are basically male and female versions of the same idea.

One of the ways my wife and I had grown apart is that all she ever cared to watch on TV was pure trash reality crap. She is an educated woman, but said it gave her a break after thinking all day.

What we let into our eyes and ears on a daily basis accumulated over many years affects how we think and then act. Garbage in - garbage out. Violence and coarseness in music, video games, TV, and the movies is having a definite negative effect on the culture. Mrs. Kite became obsessed with soap operas in the years preceding her A's. That along with her idiotic, scumbag friends gave her all the entitlement excuses she needed to pursue her fantasy romances with other men. What she watched and listened to caused her to feel that she was missing out. Now she mostly watches the shopping channels, buys endless amounts of crap, most of which she sends back. I guess that's an improvement.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
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