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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some of it makes sense, jmo now, but there's koolaid in there too...hell, it's actually arsenic:

"Both parties were willing to look at their part in the relationship breakdown."
FTN.

"We have also supported couples where the woman has had the affair, where healing was unfortunately not achieved. In many of these situations the husband genuinely loved his wife, and was willing to forgive, change and do whatever it took to create a fulfilling marriage."
FTN

"Some betrayed husbands decide for a period of time to do all they can to learn how to meet her needs, and hope for a breakthrough and a brighter future."
FTN

Other than that (& a few other things) - good for them. It's someplace people can go and try to heal. Good on them for that! I applaud and respect their efforts.
It's just not THE place.


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my husband's affair became the best thing that ever happened to me

WAL (where has HE been, btw) posted something a long, long time ago about this concept. I'm going to re-post here, I don't think he'd take issue with it. Credit, obviously, goes to wincing_at_light.

I think books largely ignore the experience of being a BH. I've heard a great many BW's say their marriage improved, and I'm at least partially convinced that the reason their marriage has improved is because an affair gives them all-time leverage to make their husbands comply with the relationship guidelines she wants to set. His choice is to comply or get the fuck out. Our society has models for what a compliant, former boys-will-be-boys cheater is supposed to look like. For men, it is accepted penance that if you cheat on your wife, the decent thing to do is to spend the rest of your life making it up to her.

Women get a different message. They're told they cheated only because we're assholes. There is no good model for the redemption of a wayward wife. There's no narrative for it. So they try to impose the feminine relationship model onto the reconciliation and use that as a metric to gauge progress. Which is often disastrous.

Most of the men I've seen who describe their marriages as recovered have done so within the framework of negotiating a new marriage that is less enmeshed than the previous one. One where they are more independent and feel like they have more of a right to get what they want out of the relationship, and not feel like the relationship is tuned toward the concept of making their wife feel happy and fulfilled -- which, honestly, is the way I think we pitch marriage in Western society. It is a very feminized institution, and all of the perceived value that arises from it is described in terms of feminine values (emotional intimacy, deep sharing, romantic love, etc.)

There's some variation here, of course, because even with men, most of us are modeling our parents marriage, so values will get weighted differently across the spectrum. I'm speaking in generalities by necessity. That is to say, some guys will really dig "my wife is my BFF" sorts of intimacy, and that's okay. If that's true for you, that should be one of your guiding principles in demanding what you need out of the new marriage.

But, by and large, men seem to be happier when they can lower the bar of emotional support they're expected to provide and start demanding that their wives start meeting their own needs. Where her drama doesn't have to become his drama, and he isn't expected to go above and beyond as an entitlement because she agreed to marry him.

I mean, there are two ways to feel really appreciated in your job: more money for a promotion to more important work, and the same money for dramatically less work. Either path leads to enormous amounts of job satisfaction. Know what I mean?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you menz know you can't R? I am 2 years out... Double betrayal with my friend who was also my co-workerand throw pregnancy in the mix and not knowing who the father was the whole pregnancy...I am the type to hold a grudge in normal day to day life.. I'm terrified I can't forgive her while being with her.... I'm just lost right now. And on top of it all I now hate myself and her the day after intimacy just about every time. What to do???

The time limit on knowing that R is not going to happen varies wildly for each of us. We're all different so there's no point in generalizing. In my situation it became obvious years ago that WW had no intention of doing the work necessary for R. So what I did was to gradually take the focus off of her, check out of crazy town(her current and probably permanent address), and make the best life I possibly could for myself. The more I've done that the less I've given a damn about what she will or won't do for the M.

For many years of this nightmare I felt like a yo-yo on the end of a string, with her controlling my emotions. I cut the string, took away her power, and got on with living. There's no fixing some people. They are permanently broken.

You will see this mantra repeated many times here in this thread and all over SI - take care of you first. What to do about R and your M will become evident to you as time passes.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You will see this mantra repeated many times here in this thread and all over SI - take care of you first. What to do about R and your M will become evident to you as time passes.

This is what I was trying to say. Mr. Kite was better able to say in two sentences what I was trying to say in two paragraphs, though.


"The hero of my tale, whom I love with all the power of my soul, whom I have tried to portray in all his beauty, who has been, is, and will be beautiful, is Truth." - Leo Tolstoy

Posts: 4476 | Registered: Dec 2010
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kind of an interesting thing going on over here...my wife is thinking about joining the site. I had talked here before about asking her to, but had decided against it. Out of nowhere last night, she said,"I might join that site you're on...it seems to have really helped you, maybe it could help me, too." I was kind of surprised, actually.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP, great sign brother. Now to see what she actually does with it. Good first step though.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2062 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, it's one of those things I didn't make a huge deal out of. Just basically acknowledged what she was saying, told her that it has helped a great many waywards, but that you only get out as much as you put in. Told her that I've seen many wayward wives (and husbands) pop up with their stories, get 2x4'ed to oblivion by fWWs (and rightfully so), and then never show up again....but that there are a few who have endured the pain and grown immensely from it. Just left it at that.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your responses menz. To answer Q's- yes I went to about 8 IC sessions about a year ago and we went to 5 MC sessions. I had to pretty much tell her that she HAD to set them up witch she reluctantly did set up. But after the first session I had to practically drag her kicking and screaming to the other 4 sessions... She was always mad at me after them and her words were she felt like I was just rubbing her nose in it...... We stopped going after the 5 sessions because they were free through my work and we simply couldn't afford it any further. To be honest I feel I desperately need IC now but I just don't have the funds to go. I am the only income in my home and I support myself, FWW, my daughter, my wife's nephew, and partially her mother... Who lives in my house for a measly $100 a month with no job just alimony from her x husband.... You ask what my FWW has done... Well those MC sessions, refused IC(said that was her choice not mine to make and she didn't need it. She knew why it happened), she has given me a (in my mind) VERY sugar coated minimized timeline where she swears sex was only once it wasn't good and he came on her stomach... Said she showered by herself immediately after... I say BULL SHIT!!!!!!, and I'll tell you why....for the past year and a half or more she swore up and down that she did flirt with him and kiss him once but that when it came to the sex he forced himself on her. Then about 5-6 months ago she finally admitted it was consensual... After Dday where I found out she was pregnant with my first child the same time I found out the A she remained in "the fog" for about 3-4 weeks. During this time frame she told me...
...1. She told me he was big downstairs.(not something you say about someone that forced themselves on you).
2. We drove by a skate park that they had hung out with a few friends at and she started crying saying that she missed him.(also not what you'd say about someone who did that to you)
3.she told me that she wasn't sure who or what she wanted.(why would she want him if he did that to her?)
4. She had him back over to my house while I was at work over $80 effing dollars. Then when I called her on break and discovered that he was at my house I told her to get him the F__k out of my house she said they were just talking about everything. (why would she bring him back like a week later) she said if your gonna act like this then I can just go with him! (again WTF?)
5. She wanted to do an experiment....she has always hated porn and said it was the same as cheating. She made me go to a porn site and wanted me to watch it to see if it hurt her still and when I did she started cryi and said that she should be bothered by it but she simply wasn't...
She claims she can't remember any of these events accept him coming to the house and she doesn't remember telling me that...

So now I dont know what to believe but I do know that they had sex more than once. She was willing to move in with the guy if I left her...

I am totally sorry if this makes NO SINCE at all. I am updating my story on my profile right now if you care to read my story it will be there shortly.


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
Lex71
♂ Member
Member # 41172
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, apologies to break into a thred. Hope it's the right one...

Fairly new here and looking for advice/help. Story so ar in profile but in a nutshell:
Married twice before. Both failed through WW A's
Not married now but have two kids and joint owner-occupier of house.

wGF is having multiple EA/PA. I'm in IC. I haven't confronted and finding it increasingly difficult to maintain any normal life, but also findigitard to confront. WTF is the matter with me?

[This message edited by Lex71 at 5:29 PM, December 7th (Saturday)]


Me: 42 Her: xWGf 39
Not married only engaged.
Two great kids, both under 6
DDay #1: 18 Nov 2013
DDay #2: July 2011

Posts: 80 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: UK
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok my whole story is now on my profile and my new signature is updated.

On a lighter note- I know how you fellas love the beer and soo do I! Infact FWW and I brew our own beer! Maybe we can ship some out to a few of you guys sometime bout to brew a dog fish head India brown ale clone and a big IPA!


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Collector, it sounds like she has a long way to go.

Lex, you're in the right place brother. This thread goes through some real slow periods on the weekends so stick around for a while. Welcome.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
TheCollector
♂ Member
Member # 38890
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lex I hate your here and feel for ya man. Know that NOTHING is wrong with you. Stop blaming yourself. Maybe you've been dealt a shitty hand with women but that doesn't make it your fault. How long have you been with WGF? How invested into the relationship besides the house?


Infidelity really IS the gift that keeps on giving...

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: thecollector
burntandtorn
♂ New Member
Member # 41502
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@thecollector,
oh man, the IPA sounds great. I'm not brewing any more though. Part of this whole mess has left me unable to even fathom living with my W if she drinks. No more alcohol for us! :/


Married 12 years, together 14
BH 34
WW 35 (multiple ONS)
2 children, 8 and 10.
In MC. Trying to reconcile.

Posts: 49 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: missouri
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Collector, from your profile:

I can't talk to her about it cause every time I do she just tries to leave.

What is your plan wrt that? The longer it goes the worse it will get. This post may help you out some:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Lex, this is the Tactical Primer, it should help as a starting point:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7093 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not brewing any more though. Part of this whole mess has left me unable to even fathom living with my W if she drinks. No more alcohol for us! :/

Alcohol can be a way to relax at the end of the day, a truth serum, or yeah, something that can bring out the worst in someone - depending on the person of course. OTOH, Mrs. Kite and I met in an AA meeting. We had both been stone-cold sober for many years when she decided to have her A's. Go figure. Maybe if I got her drunk after all these years of sobriety, she would finally tell me the truth about her extracurricular activities.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't talk to her about it cause every time I do she just tries to leave.

And she knows you don't want that, so she's using that threat to manipulate you. To keep you quiet.

Your "plan" wrt that, as SG asked is...?
Hint:
Your plan should include - in order for it to be healthy for you, mind you! - it should include something about your needs, to have only 2 in the M maybe? Like, could you have a boundary or two?

Don't allow her to shut you up by playing on your fear of losing her.
If you stand firm on "there's the door, bitch", chances are, you'll get a free beej.

[This message edited by jjct at 11:22 PM, December 7th (Saturday)]


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glenmorangie is always a good choice. I tend to prefer Glenfiddich over Glenlivet, and it tends to run about the same price. I've found a new blend that I am fond of called Monkey Shoulder. Good stuff. White Grouse is in the same price range as Dewars, but I would take Dewars over White Grouse any day.

I splurged last weekend and bought some 12 y.o. Tamnavulin. If you like peaty single malt, try that one. Yum.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Lex71
♂ Member
Member # 41172
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bought house in 2008, so have mortgage, two children, not married. No other joint accounts (she has always refused). I am the bread-winner so all mortgage, insurance and household bills are paid for by me (and always has been).

Yes there is a bit of investment but I'm not sure I that I would get past being suspicious if R were to be an option. She already have the starts of EA two years ago - we rug swept a lot - and now EA/PA so I'm not convinced yet about seeking R


StillGoing - Thanks for primer link - reading now


Me: 42 Her: xWGf 39
Not married only engaged.
Two great kids, both under 6
DDay #1: 18 Nov 2013
DDay #2: July 2011

Posts: 80 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: UK
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lex brother,

Add to this how she describes she knew I was a mistake after 6 months and that she doesn't find me attractive and I'm horrible in bed. She is planning to leave in two years after using me to help pay off some debts.

Can I respectfully ask why you are supporting someone like this? Are you in IC? I think you need to boost your self up and care for you. If your best friend was being treated like this, what advice would you give him? Be your own best friend mate.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3289 | Registered: Dec 2011
Lex71
♂ Member
Member # 41172
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, December 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred that's a very good question. Yes in IC and agreed with IC that I need to confront as its 'burning me up'. I don't understand what is holding me back...this is not my usual character.

Some of what she says is clearly just rubbish.I can see her talking to AP's and talking some complete rot so I guess there is a bit of me that thinks much of what she has said is just fantasy. Maybe if I wait it will all go away <sigh> I know it won't really

I don't know the words to use to confront. I want her to know that I know - its not me asking, I KNOW! but she will ask for proof and I don't want to give away my sources (apart from a phone bill that was shared by her accidentally). If I don't give up evidence then she'll blame-shift and I don't think she'd get out of the fog.

If it was a friend I say to confront and move on. I need to take my own (and everyone elses) advice.


Me: 42 Her: xWGf 39
Not married only engaged.
Two great kids, both under 6
DDay #1: 18 Nov 2013
DDay #2: July 2011

Posts: 80 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: UK
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