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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:36 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't disagree nuance. I think the BS should wait six months or more to see sustained work and change in the WS before even considering R. But once a couple both commit to R and to fix the relationship I believe that it should be as equal partners.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not believe that a couple can actively work on R and the M when there is an unequal or perceived as unequal power in the relationship. She has to feel free to express honest feelings without fear (real or perceived) that you will walk.

Disagree... because at that point I have to hide my OWN feelings. My situation right now is that she has proved herself to be less than trustworthy when it comes to multiple issues, fidelity, financial, etc... Therefore, I have one foot out the door. I will not pretend that I can keep putting up with being lied to, because I can't.

To put it another way, I have one foot out the door because she has been unable to be honest with me. I'm asking her to be honest with me, and her doing so (unless she has hid more shit from me) should allow me to be closer to her. She fears that it will have the opposite effect, which is where I'm like "huh?".

Does that make sense? I just want her to be herself and to be honest with me at all times, about everything. Lack of honesty and openness is what is pushing me away.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not believe that a couple can actively work on R and the M when there is an unequal or perceived as unequal power in the relationship. She has to feel free to express honest feelings without fear (real or perceived) that you will walk.

I'm with slope on this one with the following caveat.

I just want her to be herself and to be honest with me at all times, about everything.

It takes a while before the doubts fade. I can't therefore be an equal partner in the R until they do. That's a huge part of where I am right now. She's showing and doing all the right things, but a small slip throws me a disproportionate distance back. That small slip may be nothing more than not texting me at work. TBT, she's probably busy. I'm just not quite far enough along to accept that common sense answer easily though. It stinks to me of complacency, whereas, it's just really busy at work.

Hence, I'm in R, but not equal.

Just a quick q. In that sitch, who needs to do more work?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
greengiant
♂ Member
Member # 41196
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad, my wife is also a people pleaser. Her IC is telling her that it is coming from her parents also, whom told her that in order for people to lover her, she had to be pleasant for them. When doing the grocery, she stop to every stand to try what they are offering her, even if she don't want to...

Had IC last night, and I had a discussion which was going on the same way as this thread right now.
My IC made me realize that sometimes I wasn't telling things to my WW after the A because I saw how she was unable to express her feelings and talk. I also said that I was angry that she wouldn't tell me things because she didn't want to hurt me.

So, my IC said that I wanted my WW to be honest and authentic, but by trying to spare her sometimes I was doing the very same thing I was telling her to stop.

Went back home, and told my wife some things I was holding back in the last days. She felt really sad, but in the end I think it wasn't that bad.


ME - BS - 33
fWW - 33
Married 8 years, together 15
3 kids: 6, 4 and 2
D-Day: September 30th, 2013
She had a 6 weeks A with a COW

Posts: 141 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Quebec, Canada
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I dunno guys. I dont think a relationship should be a power struggle. But allot of them are. Maybe most.

In our cases it should be about working on recovery and rebuilding the M. Instead we get WWs that have more need to be RIGHT than are willing to admit fault and work on their issues.

And naturally we all have 1 foot out the door. Hell were not even that close after DDay. Were standing outside! We have the option to leave but have to weigh the costs. Loss of children. financial stuff. AND the big one which is that right after DDay we still love our WW. We stand there hoping that our WW gives a shit about us enough to at least open that door so we might possibly come back inside.

The thing is that going back in that door often is akin to running down Alices rabbit hole.

So right after DDay as we are standing outside and our WW is standing inside behind that closed door. Dont we both have equal power? She could leave us for her OM. And we could say fuck it and walk away leaving her to live in that rabbit hole.

If WW opens that door and we decide to go in. The power still seems balanced. Both are weighing their options seeing if it will work out.

But heres the big thing. At some point. Hopefully VERY SOON after DDay WW needs to get that she has to throw away her pride and forget all about wanting to be RIGHT. To save the M I feel our WW needs to go ALL-IN to win us back. She needs to work harder than she has for anything else in her life.

IMO there is a short window of golden opportunity for our WW. Remember that on DDay we still love them. If our WW delays getting it. If she is still all about wanting to be RIGHT. If she wants to retain pride and wont tell us everything we want to know. If there is TT. If there is continued contact. If all or any of this goes on that window during which we still love them will be lost. If our WW misses that golden opportunity to act and show remorse and empathy. Then any chance are real R is lost.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Picking up on a recent topic . . . .

Knowing that are our WWs are struggling with their choices can validating in way. It reminds us that even though we have suffered greatly, they have paid a price for their actions. Do not rescue them. It is very healthy for them to work on this themselves (with your support of course).

Also, be careful. Absolution is not something you can give or it is not your role to "fix," her guilt and remorse. Most people consider absolution and forgiveness the same thing. They are not. Be available and listen. Feel free to let out what you are feeling too. Forgive only if you want to. Forgiving will make her feel better for a little while, but the issue is hers and therefore is likely to come back despite your forgiveness. Only she can pull herself out of this hole. IC is the best medicine. Books help to a point. Some things just don't disappear, no matter how badly you want them to.

The walking on eggshells phase passes, but requires communication from the both of you. More than likely a talented professional doesn't hurt either. Think of it as a signal that she is finally ready to hear about all of those demons you have been carrying. The responsibility of those demons lie with her, let her take them from you. Things have changed, the old M is dead and what "was," can never be again. Different is a funny word. Different does not mean better or worse. It just means different.

It is Noon EST, so I guess I will open libations discussion.

Scotch, lots of store bought ice. Not sure what kind to get. Johnny Walker is too woody for me, but does not break the bank. I am not feeling it.

Any suggestions from the wealth of knowledge from the Menz? I am not feeling a Glen Livet splurge coming on. Maybe 10 year Glen Morangie as a compromise ? It has a hint of Brandy in it and I like it. Also the Mrs. claims I have a little crush on that girl from Mallrats that does the Dewars commercial, so maybe that is in tonight. ( I like to mess with her sometimes, in a healthy way. Being further along in R makes this possible) I did not know she was Irish and she is kind of a hard ass in the commercial. She bears a physical resemblance to Mrs. Numb&Dumb and her demeanor matches so maybe that is what she is picking up. Or maybe I just pay attention to commercials that involve alcohol.

Dewars maybe ? My W and I would get a little extra fun out of joking about it. That is how you know things are going well. No paranoia, no hurt feelings, just little inside jokes that are safe knowing you are both in a secure place.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

N&D,

Pinches by Haig & Haig maybe? Been a while since I drank Scotch, but that was my go to. I might break into some eggnog tonight since we'll be decorating. I'm pretty sure I'll have a few cold cans of beer. If I'm feeling it I'll pour myself a glass of my Single Barrel. Or some Kraken Rum. That stuff is different in a pleasant way.

Man, I don't mind coming to work but that 8 hour wait to leave is a bitch!


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glenmorangie is always a good choice. I tend to prefer Glenfiddich over Glenlivet, and it tends to run about the same price. I've found a new blend that I am fond of called Monkey Shoulder. Good stuff. White Grouse is in the same price range as Dewars, but I would take Dewars over White Grouse any day.

Not sure what I'm having tonight. Something that will warm me up. This Colorado weather is freezing my ass off.


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
bobf
♂ Member
Member # 41412
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor said:

But heres the big thing. At some point. Hopefully VERY SOON after DDay WW needs to get that she has to throw away her pride and forget all about wanting to be RIGHT. To save the M I feel our WW needs to go ALL-IN to win us back. She needs to work harder than she has for anything else in her life.

I could not have said this better. I really feel my wife went all in when she woke up from the fog within a couple of weeks of D-Day. I honestly think that discovering EVERYTHING (I did a rather thorough job picking through all of her online accounts and devices) helped. She was trying to TT me at first, she says because she was worried I'd leave her if I knew everything. Instead, I found probably 99% of what she did on my own, confronted her and then we were able to move on. I love my wife and do not want to leave her; I just wanted to know all of what she did so that more shit would not come out later starting another cycle of angst.

I just wish she had spilled her guts completely on the original D-day and had opened up rather than deleting all of her accounts. In the end, it was the same result, I undeleted and found everything, but at more pain to both of us.

[This message edited by bobf at 12:20 PM, December 6th (Friday)]


Me: BH early 50s
Her: fWW late 40s (kmom2662)
7 Wk OEA, Skype, Cyber
DDay 10-4-13
Married 20+ years
Currently in R

Posts: 142 | Registered: Nov 2013
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man, I don't mind coming to work but that 8 hour wait to leave is a bitch!
Yeah, I know what you mean but it leaves me really conflicted since I work from home now


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3370 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a quick q. In that sitch, who needs to do more work?

If it is something you asked for in order to begin to trust and feel safe. It is up to her.

Can you talk to her doing something else on days that she is busy ? Maybe a quick email from work email, Even if you don't get it until later at least you see the effort.

I can say for me that effort counts at least as much as effect does.

Monkey shoulder ? Pinches by Haig & Haig ? I will have to take a gander. Egg nog ? Hmmm. Might be good for a nightcap

Beer is always welcome, but had enough beer drinking during my outdoor woodsy things last week.

Maybe I will have my own private Dewars commercial . . .


Man, I don't mind coming to work but that 8 hour wait to leave is a bitch!

Why do you think I am hanging out with the Menz this PM ? Just biding my time.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She fears that it will have the opposite effect, which is where I'm like "huh?". Does that make sense? I just want her to be herself and to be honest with me at all times, about everything. Lack of honesty and openness is what is pushing me away.
Oh yeah this makes sense. My STBXWW had this mentality the entire time before I filed. I actually told her if I didn't leave after I found out you were fucking some dude behind my back for 3 years why would you be scared I am going to walk out the door if you actually open up to me and expressed yourself and how you feel.

She never could so eventually I proved her right and filed.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:26 PM, December 6th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
greengiant
♂ Member
Member # 41196
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guy's, it will be a Guinness and a glass of Glenfiddich when I got home. Cheers to all of you!


ME - BS - 33
fWW - 33
Married 8 years, together 15
3 kids: 6, 4 and 2
D-Day: September 30th, 2013
She had a 6 weeks A with a COW

Posts: 141 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Quebec, Canada
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's only 1:30 here. Damn!

But it will be redhook winterhooks tonight bitches.

Nothing important to add.


Well, there is this. As ya'll know I told my wife I wanted a divorce a few days before thanksgiving.
She has mostly been avoiding me, but still trying to figure out what to do. I have noticed that she has stocked the fridge with my favorite beers, as well as making a special trip to pick up my favorite teriyaki (grew up in hawaii, I like da good teri).

So yesterday she had a telephone chat with Anne Bercht's (sp?) husband. She and he wrote the book about "my husband's affair became the best thing that ever happened to me" Not sure how I feel about the book. It was a better read than the title indicates. she wants us to go meet with them or some other couple that survived this shit.

Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand it is at least some effort. But on the other hand, once again, the effort only comes as a reaction. Either way, I am still of the too late mindset.

Meh, we'll see, I haven't changed my mind on the the divorce, but I am not in a hurry to do it before xmas...kinda dreading telling the kids.

Anyway, my fridge is stocked with a cornicopa of different winter ales. gonna have a hard time waiting until 8:00 pm. (who schedules basketball practice from 7 to 8 on a friday?) Ugggh.

Peace.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey SDWB

FWIW I have read the Bercht (or is it Brecht) stuff. Honestly the title was a little off putting, but I remember identifying with Anne on the self healing she did, taking control of her life, self esteem, etc.

When you are done, you're done. No arguments there. Wouldn't it be worth it to at least hear them out ? At minimum you are going to have to deal with your xWW/WW for the rest of your life, maybe go with the intent of having a better co-parenting relationship for the kids? See what happens ?

FWIW Friday night practice is usually planned to allow team re-hydration at the bar. My softball tourneys/games usually get scheduled around which town has the best beer and wing specials. If it is for the kids then I agree with you, Friday night is ridiculous.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wouldn't it be worth it to at least hear them out ? At minimum you are going to have to deal with your xWW/WW for the rest of your life, maybe go with the intent of having a better co-parenting relationship for the kids? See what happens ?

I haven't said no. Hell, if she could turn it around and be the wife that I thought I married, or at least close to it, then I would probably jump at the chance. But it's been two years, I needed a step like this a year or so ago.

But yes, I see what you are saying. I know that I will never have her out of my life. So if she wants to set something up, I will attend with an open mind. I am just not going to get all hopeful again. Been down that road before--it's a dead end.

And yes it is a kid's basketball practice! What. the. hell.

Not only does it screw up my Friday night, but I actually have a group of adults that play soccer on Friday nights, at exactly the same time--which would involve drinking afterwards. So my fridays are doubly screwed.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWD - Is that the couple that created BAN (Beyond Affairs Network)? I've heard good things about that, FWIW.

There's also something to be said about needing to heal, no matter which direction you take: R, S, D, Limbo, or another one I've seen popping up a lot lately, "Not Divorcing".

Getting really close to happy hour here, and we've warmed all the way up to 2.4 F. Might have to put on some sunblock and have one of those fruity drinks with the little umbrella in it.

Nah... I'm going to go see what I have in my scotch collection.


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is the founders of the BAN network. Turns out JNRPA has been emailing Ann and her husband from time to time.

Interesting. I guess until I actually file the paperwork, I am in the "not divorcing" category. I will stay in that category until after xmas, for the kids. Then I will probably push forward with the divorce. If I see some huge effort from JNRPA I might linger in the not divorcing category for a bit longer. I mean shit, I gave it two years already. I can handle "not divorcing" its not as stressful as trying to reconcile.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wonder, best wishes. If you decide to continue on the path to D then take it from me that dread of telling the kids does not get any easier. As I have found out, there is no good time to blow up their world (don't mean to characterize it for you, that's just jthe way I feel in my sitch).

[This message edited by Later at 4:26 PM, December 6th (Friday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Makes total sense. Your kids and their holiday are definitely worth it. Especially if you and JNRPA are being civil. Stocking your fridge with your favorite beers and getting you some quality teriyaki is pretty civil, IMO.

Sorry I butchered the acronym for your new name in that last post, by the way, SDWB. Still getting used to it!


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
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