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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's not even close to remorse. That's losing the ability to fake remorse.

Quoted for truth there.


545, no real cogent thoughts on the situation. But that is a bullshit selfish move on her part. Part of it may stem from the fact that (at least my) waywards seem to feel that they have forever lost the upper hand in the relationship. I never really treated my relationship as someone having power over the other--but I guess my wife did. It was frustrating to her that she was always going to be the bad one (her words)....so she would resent that I would trigger or get the shakes...how fucked up is that? Maybe that same kind of resentment here? I don't know...just my thoughts.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454, that's one of the toughest aspects to deal with post-Affair. After someone drops a nuclear bomb on you, it changes the dynamic of the relationship. What might have been a valid complaint from her just seems petty and insensitive. Statements like "you don't care" tempt you to educate your WW what really not caring looks like. It looks like what she did to you. But going that route only injects more toxins into the relationship.

Getting to normalcy, whatever that is, seems impossible at times. It puts great strain on a relationship that is already in ICU. No wise words or suggestions, but I can relate.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB, that's my line of thinking. As I was explaining what brought on the trigger, her words were to the effect of will I ever be right? I was trying to tell her that the reason she initially gave for the affair was that I didn't care. She didn't want to take any responsibility for that, just wanted desperately to "be right".

Fuck me, but I think that the writing is on the wall. I don't think she's going to be able to stay remorseful.

TBH, I examined my response. I don't want to hang the A over her head for the rest of her life. She's trying, I just don't know if it's going to be enough. My reaction was visceral. Out of the blue. Instant. Had to get out, away for even a little bit. I don't think my staying would have been productive in any way shape of form. I was going to blow.

How do you explain it to them? I advocate the 180 over and over. She needs to get it. Her FoO issues preclude her understanding/empathy. 180 would and has been productive for me. 180 for her is just me abandoning her also, as everyone else has. I don't think she has it in her to be introspective enough to use her time to fix her issues. I think her response will be to just attempt to wait me out.

Christ this is a big shit sandwich and I ain't hungry.

I'm at a loss.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think her response will be to just attempt to wait me out.

This is what did me in.

She sounds like my wife. The desperate need to be right. Plus the "are you going to hang this over my head forever" shit. That shit pisses me off. I don't know about you, but I reached a point a long time ago where I stopped lashing out..sure I still had triggers and shakes, but I didn't use the affair as a weapon. But still, just triggering would make her "feel bad". Always about them. always.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

What might have been a valid complaint from her just seems petty and insensitive.

Absolutely. I have no issue with that fact that what I did was absolutely wrong. Couldn't control it. Thought I was long past that type of trigger. Mini-triggers, oh hell yes, all the time. They're just annoyance for the most part and go unremarked. This one though?

Statements like "you don't care" tempt you to educate your WW what really not caring looks like.

Was absolutely the first thought. It's why I left to get some space. As you say, I didn't want to inject any further toxin. I left to allow a cool down.

The bigger issue for me now is the complaint about using the trigger to *shift* the blame. She didn't get that I totally took responsibility for my insensitivity. I was trying to explain how her comment had affected me and she took umbrage with that.

I'm afraid we might be getting to the *rather be right than married* stage. I hope not.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB, cross posted. Scary similarities. Hence why I'm afraid I see the writing on the wall.

I want to *help* her figure this out. I'm a KISA. I want to *fix* it, *help* her. From what I've learned from you guys however, that's what got me into this boat 5 times over. It might be time to complete 180 and get myself healthy. Peek over the wall again in a few months.

Christ, I can see what's blocking her. I've got to learn that I can't remove that block. That's for her.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ForwardMotion
♂ Member
Member # 32608
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB & Sal - sorry to hear about the current direction. I totally get it, I am hanging somewhat to the other side of the decision myself. It's taken my fWW awhile, but she's actually somewhat proactively dealing with her issues. We'll see if it continues to trend positively.

To everyone here, regardless of situation, here's hoping you can find some peace and reasons for thankfulness tomorrow. I'm thankful for my awesome kids, microbrews, and 4 days off!

Peace

[This message edited by ForwardMotion at 2:52 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


me - BH

'It's not the end of everything,
It's just end of everything you know.'


Posts: 400 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Tejas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to hear about giving up the R and going for the D. I think tho that there is some sense of peace that comes with this resolution. Its over with and you wont have to deal with it anymore. You let crazy run down the rabbit hole and waved goodbye.

Every day now will be a step toward rebuilding your own healthy and happy life. So while I want to say that I am sorry you have had to reach this resolution. I am happy that the resolution did finally come. Yeh that sounds weird or mean. I hope you get what I really mean tho.

Part of it may stem from the fact that (at least my) waywards seem to feel that they have forever lost the upper hand in the relationship. I never really treated my relationship as someone having power over the other--but I guess my wife did. It was frustrating to her that she was always going to be the bad one (her words)....so she would resent that I would trigger or get the shakes...how fucked up is that? Maybe that same kind of resentment here? I don't know...just my thoughts.

Funny how many times we remark that we all must be M to the same woman.

My WW does this to the letter. Usually it goes along with her *o poor me* lament about how she is so abused and misunderstood. Under that is her belief that I *forced* her into her affair by being a bad husband. So its really all my fault and now she is paying the price.

Like you I wasnt aware there was any kind of power struggle going on.

Regarding WW going to extreme lengths to win back the M.. someone mentioned asking their WW to read *after the affair*. I did that right after Dday. I later caught a email from WW to her bestest GF saying how I punished her by forcing her to read that book and how the book was so awful because it insisted that everything (affair) was all her fault.

I dong think any amount of reading or IC/MC will do a damn bit of good with some WS. There is no there there. They simply do not have the capacity or capability to feel remorse. The best they can do is pretend for awhile. But thats about it and it wont last long.

ETA. WW once accused me of crying just to make her feel bad. Then said *well it didnt work*.

[This message edited by Razor at 3:24 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love/hate this site. Just gave some advice in another forum about open communication. Convinced myself to try communicating 1 more time.

I'm not going to keep going down this road though.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get the same thing.... WW will actually say things to me like "Don't you know how hard this is for me?"

I mean... SERIOUSLY?


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't you know how hard this is for me?

Love that shit. Poor little wives. We are so mean to them. I mean gosh two years of her almost trying must have been sooo taxing. My two years of shakes and not sleeping pale in comparison to how hard it was for her.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Say it all brothers, say it all! Good stuff. Real shit. I for one and glad that WS lurk and read here. There's great advice for them on what not to do that we can't tell them. Might just help another brother's wife have an epiphany.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edited for being stupid and not helpful to anyone

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 4:46 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seems like a lot of pain going on this week. I've got an open virtual booth here where I am handing out bro hugs, cigars, beers, whiskey, and soft drinks.

Cheers to all of you fellers, and thanks for helping me along for the last three years as well.


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Losfer,

Going to take you up on the cigars and whiskey.

Bro hugs? Well, maybe after enough whiskey!

Other than that? Turkey sandwich on the couch, big pickle on the side, Jack and coke with a lemon twist and a great game on the big screen. Macanudo direct from the D.R. afterwards, with more J&C of course.

Thanks to all of you guys. Definitely would be in a much worse place without you.

Move over Losfer.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edited for being stupid and not helpful to anyone

I read it - didn't see a damn thing wrong. I know my posts are raw. Affairs suck. No need for apologies in the Menz thread. Period. For stating your truth, or posting because you need to get something out. That's why I say never apologize for thread jacking, because just about every post is a threadjack. It's not like we go on for 50 pages talking about beer or something.

Speaking of which, Sal and WB's beers are history. Anyone else need me to drink one for them? Anyone? Please?


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred, better have one for me. Feel silly trying again. Historically, things will be better for a few weeks then right back off the deep end. What makes me think this time will be different?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bro hugs? Well, maybe after enough whiskey!

Dude... handing you a whiskey and a light for your cigar IS a bro hug. That's the way we do things around here!

As Mr. Thorogood would say, I'm movin' on over...


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the beer posts should start earlier giving the mood and thanksgiving around the corner. Or even better, something with 8% or more alcohol...

It's sad - Sal & Wonderboy. I think one cannot be truly R'ed if the WS didn't do the work. You're just in a limbo - some closer to R, others to D.

Now about the MC/WS comment of us causing our FWWs to have an affair: it is easy to show how stupid is this argument, i.e.

if one does <X> => partner has an affair

We all know that it should be:

if one does <X> => divorce

But let's assume that having an affair is actually a possibility. For those that this is true <X> is actually a set of behaviors and it is different from person to person. But regardless of who they are if they think <X> can make a partner have an affair then for sure <X> = has an affair must be included in everyone's set.

if <one has an affair> => partner has an affair

Therefore anyone who thinks one can push the partner to have an affair must also think that if you have an affair this will cause your partner to have an affair.

So if an MC says that to you then you could just say - ok, now if you excuse me I'm going to have an affair because obviously I'm entitled to it given that she had one. How would the MC defend his position now?

Anyway, I'm just rambling. Here's a picture of a caipirina


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1160 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred, thanks bro. To paraphrase, I've often thought Tred's posts were too raw. So much pain after so much time (not really, time flies, but post DDay time is like prison sentence time IMO). Why not get divorced? But now I realize that was just me in a B.S. fog, not fully grasping the gravity of the betrayal. It does suck, it is raw, and R definitely isn't for sissies. Maybe I'm a sissy for moving toward D, I don't know.

Speaking of which, one of the few people IRL who knows about the affair and who has survived infidelity himself practically just begged me not to even think about divorce right now. He talked about holiday and work stress, the tendency to trigger on holidays and anniversaries, seasonal disorder, the recent cold and gloomy weather we've had around here lately, and things like that. I'll give him credit, he threw in the kitchen sink and didn't hold anything back. He said to clear my head of all such thoughts to the extent possible, get through the holidays, then evaluate things in the new year.

It's funny because my gut reaction to SDWB's posts earlier today was "You want to do this right before the holidays?" One second later it occurred to me that I was doing the exact same thing. My friend thinks talking divorce the day before TG while recovering from an affair is a very bad idea.

Thoughts? Swing some 2x4s as needed.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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