In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
I am not her safety net guys, I am on disability and she makes a hell of a lot more than my disability. I'm not her free ride, if anything I benefit from her working... So that's not really an argument or an issue we deal with.
I really feel confident that there is nobody else in the picture. 99.9% confident, she has some questionable boundaries on Facebook with friends from hometown and I tell her as much when it occurs.
The family trip to affairville is because a recent death in the family leaves someone close to her alone for the first Christmas in a bunch of years so there is no other motive that said it is really hard for me to go up there because she left me on the farm working to have sex with OM, trigger...
The fighting has gotten bad and IMHO that is why she is done, we fight a lot, today I asked if we wait through holidays before we do anything and she thinks we should get thru youngest sons graduation before we do anything.. I did ask about the sex thing and she said she's not sure she wants to have sex but she still gets horny once in a very long while... That's gonna be hard for me (no pun intended there) I don't know how to combat that issue. I can't force her todo something she doesn't want to do so..... If a female has a suggestion I'm all ears.
Thanks for the replies, I know I sound like a bitch but I'm not ready to give up yet.
Also we all reach our "limit" of what we are or can handle and maybe she has reached hers, I don't know she keeps bringing up a lot of stuff from the past 21 years stuff that seems to come out I left field. I don't know, not trying to make excuses for her but it's not all just her.... I have fault in this too, just not the A part.
YOU are the only person you can control. What are you doing to stop being an ass, then? When are you going to stop engaging in the fights? The yelling? When does that stop? When do you intend to get control of your own actions then, so you can stop justifying hers?
For many of us BS's, the affairs really do break us. Shattered. But it is incumbent upon us as people to be as healthy as we can. That is your responsibility. Become that person.
I honestly don't know why would want to try to continue to reconcile with someone who has been so utterly unremorseful this whole time. But since you seem to want to continue, make some changes in YOURSELF and see where that takes you.
What would you say if your best friend was in the situation you're in now?
The people you do your life with shape the life you live
Personally, I'm not sure why you're staying in this marriage, either.
That being said...I would like to ask:
Since you seem determined to remain in this marriage and to try to make things work....
--Why can't you go to AFFAIRTOWN for the Christmas holidays? You stated you're on disability...so it certainly appears you have the time off work to go.
SO, why would you NOT spend the Christmas Holidays with your children?
Has your wife said: "I do not want you to go to Affairtown for Christmas!"
You're a grown man - if you want to spend Christmas with your children: THEN PACK UP and go to Affairtown with you family!
I also want to say:
I really don't blame your wife for being negative and upset about the "surprise" Renewal Vow Ceremony you planned for your last Wedding Anniversary.
MY OPINION - "A Renewal Vow Ceremony" should be something BOTH OF YOU AGREED ON... and planned together.
Personally - if my husband planned such a "SURPISE EVENT" on our wedding anniversay - I wouldn't participate; and go along with "the surpise." I would have walked out, and left him standing there alone.
I think your wife was very nice to participate and go along with your "surpise"... I do agree: Your heart was in the right place, and it was a "sweet, romantic, special idea" - BUT, you should have discussed it with your wife beforehand. That's my opinion, anyway.
I don't believe you should give up spending Christmas with your children.
I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.
Working on yourself doesn't mean you have to suck up all the crap she spews forth.
Have you ever read the 180? Have you ever tried any of its techniques?
Focus on yourself. Get yourself healthy. Let go the outcome of this marriage. It is NOT the point. This marriage is destroying you. You don't just let her hold all the cards.
Detach. Back off. Not for her sake, but for YOURS.
I think you guys have the impression that I'm just sitting here like a little puppy and that's the furthest from the truth. I have been emotional but it's because it's just wearing so heavy on me I try not to cry in front of her anymore sometimes it just happens with my health, the marriage stress from the classes I'm taking.. For some reason in my heart I feel like there is something under the surface that we need to deal with before I throw in the towel and I feel like I need to give it a fair shake before I just walk away it's too easy to just walk away
You stated: Your WW is the major breadwinner in your family - and she says over and over she wants a divorce.
She's a wage-earning, grown woman. IF SHE REALLY wants a divorce - she can secure a divorce, without your permission.
I appears: Both of you are getting something out of this very dysfunctional, anger-filled relationship that's filled with YEARS of ongoing fighting; and very little mutual love and respect.
I suspect - this relationship will end when one of you decide: "Enough is Enough"
I'm sincerely sorry for the ongoing turmoil you're going through,
You are both living a very miserable existence. Not so gently, the A was over 5 years ago. The last TT was over 3. I know as well as anyone that it takes a long time to get over betrayal. But if you are still arguing daily, cannot get along, spew hateful comments with kids living in the home, etc. then maybe it's time you both faced the fact that the A was a dealbreaker, and your denial about that is killing your entire family.
What exactly are you holding out hope for? A wife that is cruel and unremorseful, and that you like fighting with? A wife that cheats and doesn't care? A family filled with regret, resentment, and anger?
You and your wife should really think of your kids at this point. What you're doing is so unfair to them. Either grow up and stop fighting or separate. It's been 5 years of constant fighting. At what point do either of you realize fighting isn't the answer? Ever? Do you ever realize that?
I think you guys have the impression that I'm just sitting here like a little puppy and that's the furthest from the truth
You are looking at your situation from the wrong angle.
Your view is all based around her *changing* or *doing* <something> different so that things can 'get better' again.
I am going to pass along one of the very best pieces of advice that I have EVER received:
******You have to let go of the outcome******
First of all, I want to say how sorry I am that you are going through this. You did nothing to deserve it, and I commend you for putting so much effort into saving your marriage. I don't think that most men are willing to even try.
I think what a woman needs most from a man is to be able to respect him. You really can't love someone you don't have any respect for. I would like to say this more gently than it is going to sound, and I hope you will understand I mean it sincerely to maybe help you, not to hurt you. It doesn't sound like your wife has any respect for you.
You said you're not working, she's making more money than you. She's dreaming of a larger penis. She doesn't want to have sex with you, doesn't want to recommit vows in a romantic ceremony, doesn't want flowers. It sounds to me like what she wants is for you to 'man up'. She is pushing you to leave.
Maybe she wants you to be the one to end it, so that she doesn't have to have the guilt of ending it. Maybe she doesn't want your kids to think it was 'her fault' the marriage ended. I don't know her reasoning. When you don't leave, she has to be thinking to herself on some level, 'What is wrong with you, that you are taking this?'
If that's the case, then she doesn't interpret anything that you are doing for her as love, even though it may be coming from a heart full of love - she is interpreting it as weakness.
IMO, you have two options, or ways of addressing this, if your desire is still to save your marriage AND your dignity:
1. Leave. Tell her you have done everything you can think of to do, you have been as patient and long-suffering as you can be, but that you are not losing your self-respect to this marriage. Clearly she is not taking responsibility for what she has done to you, and she is not willing to do what is necessary to help you to heal. So go on with your life. She simply cannot respect you, if you do not respect yourself. I personally cannot imagine a more offensive, hurtful, horrific thing to say/do to my H, than to reject his penis for a larger one that's not even real, because it reminds me of another man. Seriously, wtf? Who does that? That's so, so mean - it's not even the way women think. What would you expect your wife to feel, if you told her you didn't want to have sex with her, just with a rubber vagina that you bought at the store, because it was super wet and reminded you of another woman's vagina? What kind of message would you expect her to be receiving from that???
2. If you can't bring yourself to leave, then maybe there are words that you have never actually said to her, that she is waiting to hear from you. How about, in the middle of your next yelling match, you just stop yelling. How about you just stop, and look her in the eyes, and say to her, 'You have been trying everything possible to push me away, and look at me. I am still here. I am still here because I love you, and for no other reason than that I love you. But I don't need you, and I can't love someone who won't respect me, and I am strong enough to end this right now. You have no more time. You have to choose.'
Self-control is much, much sexier than angry yelling. She needs to know that you are strong enough - strong enough INSIDE - that you can stand up to her without losing control of yourself.
She needs to know that she is not the strongest person in her world. Right now, I'm betting money that she feels like she is the strongest person in her world.
And honestly.. wanting to return to 'affairville' at Christmas? When things are like this between you? Not a good sign. She is being all kinds of disrespectful to you. It's pretty awful, actually.