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Divorce/Separation     Print Topic    
User Topic: Abbondad Part 5
Dreamboat
♀ Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the financials? what if there is nothing in her 401k

I believe there is 30k in it.

Oh hell to the no!! 30K in a 401K is nothing. Since you are a professor at a university (I think) then I assume your pension is worth WAY more than that. And you need to nail down the details of what she wants from the pension -- does that include the health care benefit that is often a part of the pension plan? How would that impact you?

The only way I can see her not being able to collect on the pension is if she dies or if you put a clause in the D that if she remarries then she forfeits the pension.

If you decide to counter, then make an offer that is more than what you want. Primary custody of the kids, she gets EOW and 1 weeknight each week, SS for 5 years, CS at the highest amount allowed by the state, splitting of all medical, extracurricular, child care and other costs at 65/35 (she pays 65), when the kids are old enough to drive then you split the cost of car insurance 65/35, split the cost of college 65/35, exclusive rights to the house and you retain 65% of the equity. Don't go overboard, but go right up the the edge. That will send the message of where you stand. Make sure you include a listing and split of all assets and debts in the offer. You do not want to be quibbling over little things.

Stay strong and stand your ground.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17689 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
Dreamboat
♀ Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more thing to think about with a pension is that you may have an opportunity to retire early.

Here is an example: My sister and her husband were high school teachers. The state was trying to reduce the number of teachers (larger class sizes...) and so they were offered early retirement in their early 50's. They get ~80% of their salary and very good health benefits.

With a 401K the only opportunity you have to retire early is if you have a very high balance (and unless she is 25, 30K is a low balance...). So she will likely need to work until she is 67.

Do you want your cray-cray WW to start collecting your pension at 50-something? And potentially retire early because of your hard work??


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17689 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
standingonmarble
♀ Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May never get the pension??? Have them explain that one thoroughly to you. I don't get that one. Half of it?? NO, if she gets any she is entitled to a percentage of what was earned during the marriage (wedding date to filing date) Not half, never half. '

I agree with hiding the belly theory, you have nothing to lose by dragging your feet a little,(following her lead) Maybe she doesn't want to give birth to a "bastard child"? How would she explain that one to the child?

You hold all of the cards. Don't rush this, just to be done. Remember your lawyer works for you in the end. You pay her.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Everyone,

Yes, I definitely have to clarify the whole pension deal.

Had a run-in with the STBX:

7:00 PM was the arranged exchanged--as usual, dictated by her, accommodated by me. At 6:00 she texts me asking if I would drop them at 7:30. I told her no, as I had made plans.

So she calls me and I made the mistake of answering. She tears into me with her usual blather about "you need to be flexible and accommodating...." I tried to cut in but she filibustered me. Finally, I snapped and yelled at her: "I have done nothing BUT accommodate all your dictates and mandates. I will see you at 7:30" (thus of course accommodating her again) and hung up on her.

Got to her place at 7:00 and lo and behold she somehow made it at 7:00.

She came over to the car and in her sweetest personality (mask #3) said, "I want to settle this right away. My lawyer sent you something today. I hope you take it seriously."

She was trying (again, in her most tender, loving persona) to get me to acquiesce. I didn't take the bait and said I will look at it and speak with my attorney and that I take everything seriously.

I don't trust this sudden change one bit.

Finally, she says her usual infuriating crap line about "getting past the damage WE caused."

I said, "That WHO caused???"

Seemingly oblivious to the heavy irony and sarcasm in my tone, she repeated, "We."

I nodded and said bitterly, "We. Uh-huh. Ok." And drove off.

She still doesn't get it and never will.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
k94ever
♀ Member
Member # 11176
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there any reason why you just can't reply

"There is no WE that caused this. YOU cheated and I didn't."

k9


BS: 56
WS: 53
Betrayed: 23 years
Affairs: 14 (2 lasted 3 months. Rest were ONS)
WS died: 16 May 2011
Do not stay in your hurt forever. Choose to move out of it.

Posts: 6582 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: Wisconsin
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there any reason why you just can't reply
"There is no WE that caused this. YOU cheated and I didn't."

It would have just led to a blow-up and a retreading of old ground. (Plus the kids were twenty feet away.) She would not have become any more enlightened about her responsibility in all of this. (If anything it would have resulted in more NPD anger and blameshifting, getting us nowhere in terms of the divorce proceedings.) It took a lot for me to say what I said; I broke my own rule of never discussing or alluding to "Us" ever again outside of a legal setting.

But thank you, K9. It is for sure what I wanted to say!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi,

My attorney spoke to STBX's attorney and is urging me to consider their proposal for timesharing: I get 54%, she gets 46%. I get one weekend a month. Keep in mind: this is for temporary relief only. (TR hearing is still a go.)

Other: no discussion of home sale.

I get immediate use of and possession of the home.

She pays state mandated CS and half the mortgage.

Thoughts? Pros? Cons? Am I being duped into something I might regret?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
neverdidithink
♀ Member
Member # 40568
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get one weekend a month. Keep in mind: this is for temporary relief only

Temporary sets the precedent for permanent.

Please do not settle for 1 weekend per month, at 64 with 1 weekend /46 with 3 weekends you'll be doing all the heavy lifting while she plays with the kids on her time.


Me: BW 52
Him: WH 55
Married 8 years
4 20-something his and hers kids

Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9


Posts: 338 | Registered: Sep 2013
GabyBaby
♀ Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ditto NeverDid.
I would not agree to those terms even temporarily because too often, that becomes the model for the final decree.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6541 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

no way....every other weekend at least

Neverdidithink is right - you would be stuck with all the day to day and she would get to be the super disney mom.

Temporary or not, the judge will look at it and say 'if you agreed to it then i see no reason to change it' and poof, now its the permanant.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
devistatedmom
♀ Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You KNOW there is no way she will take them 46% of the time. She's not in town enough. Do NOT agree to this, even temporarily. They look to keep things status quo to what the temp orders are.

Offer back what you think is more likely to happen in the future...like 75/25, with you having 2 weekends. Make if 70/30 if you wish, while continuing to document that she couldn't even keep that up.

You will regret accepting what she is offering, as your CS will be lower, and you KNOW she won't keep up that amount in the future. Then it would be another court battle to change it.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5527 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
roughroadahead
♀ Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please make the very next question you ask your attorney "WWJD?" No, not Jesus (and I gathered you're Jewish anyway), but the judge. All these negotiations are for naught if you don't know what your real bottom line is. I can't say anything for Florida law, but in the snow ridden state in which I reside, the 401(k) thing is statutory. That means if everything were to come before a judge, s/he would split the 401(k)s down the middle, regardless of the value of each, because that's what the statute says to do. It is a waste of time and money if you inadvertantly end up dying on a hill that a judge most likely wouldn't let you have anyway. Any settlement negotiations should be strategic. Unless you have some unusual circumstances, both lawyers have a pretty good idea of what the judge's financial orders will look like. You can, of course, write almost anything you like into a settlement, but trials are very, very expensive and you don't want to force one when it won't be to your advantage. Custody battles are another issue entirely, so careful consideration with your attorney would be necessary to figure out the strategy there.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 739 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD, remember what I said about a fluff offer? I don't think that this is a serious offer, or if it is, hell no. I'm concerned that you said your lawyer is pushing it. Can you tell us why, or have you asked her why she thinks it's a good offer?

The other posters have summed it up rather nicely. However, having BTDT, I'm going to raise an issue that no-one else seems to be looking at. If CSTBXW really is pregnant and you give her 3 weekends a month, she's going to have a fairly good argument that "the children need to spend more time together". What if after the birth of your kids half sibling she decides to become a SAHM? I have no idea if POSER intends to marry her, but given her MO, she's probably going to demand it. What then?

Every other weekend, 54/46 on a set schedule. If her job doesn't allow for that, why is it incumbent on you to facilitate that? Once the EOW schedule is in place, of course you would be willing to be flexible. After all, you have been so far!(See where all the documenting comes in handy?)

I don't like the offer. Too much can go wrong.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2999 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Everyone,

I find myself a bit flummoxed and frozen with this.

Here is what I just emailed my attorney:

"Yes, immediate exclusive use with no conditions--and a reasonable date for her to remove her belongings--is agreeable to me. Her response to this will tell me much about her possible desire to move back to our house and I move out. (Which would be the worst case scenario for the kids.)

I am concerned that the "close to 50%" model still results in essentially me doing all the work with the kids Monday through Fridays and X still getting them for the "fun times" on the weekend. No responsibility for homework or getting them to school. She needs to truly share in the work part of child care. In addition, her overnights need to begin much earlier than 7:00 on a Friday night.

Also, according to their proposal I would STILL have to "notify" X which weekend I would like them. This does not sound fixed to me. And "notify" would end up in reality X having the final say over which weekend.

(Not trying to be unreasonably obstinate here.).

I am fine with her not paying for utilities but for half the mortgage. But for how long?

Can you calculate what the child support would be?

Yes, I do not want to address the home sale issue yet.

Also, would a decision rendered at the Temporary Relief hearing set a strong precedent for an ultimate Global Settlement? I don't want to concede myself into something binding and that I would not be able to undo and which I would regret."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One weekend a month? Oh hell no! Whatever you agree to now will most likely become permanent. Don't do this to yourself, don't do this to your kids. You deserve to have weekends with your kids!


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
neverdidithink
♀ Member
Member # 40568
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She needs to truly share in the work part of child care. In addition, her overnights need to begin much earlier than 7:00 on a Friday night.

YES! On days she is responsible for the kids, she needs to be 100% responsible. After school/daycare on. You can't be expected to pick them up and feed them and have the waiting for her.

For you and for the kids, you want an every-other weekend arrangement. Start Friday after school through a specific time Sunday night or get them to school Monday morning (Tuesday for Monday holidays. Be consistent in your schedule for everyone and do not agree to anything where you need to notify her of your choices/plans. You're there now and it's not working at all.

Get a set schedule where the negotiating ends NOW or this tug-of-war will never be over.

[This message edited by neverdidithink at 3:57 PM, December 9th (Monday)]


Me: BW 52
Him: WH 55
Married 8 years
4 20-something his and hers kids

Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9


Posts: 338 | Registered: Sep 2013
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So..any confirmation that she is pregnant?


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7697 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Dreamboat
♀ Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD, I think you need s new L. I cannot comprehend why your L is pushing you to accept this offer. The offer is horrible. And your L is not even suggesting a counter offer. You need to start pushing your L to do what YOU want rather than trying to please the other L. YOU are paying for services rendered and I do not think you are getting your money's worth.

Also, would a decision rendered at the Temporary Relief hearing set a strong precedent for an ultimate Global Settlement?

If your L comes back and says that it does not set precedence then fire him/her on the spot.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17689 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, would a decision rendered at the Temporary Relief hearing set a strong precedent for an ultimate Global Settlement?

Absolutely! Once this is set into place, you would need strong supporting evidence as to why it should not continue. All of the preceding documentation basically goes out the window unless you can use it to show continuing *bad* behavior.

Why does your lawyer like the proposal CSTBXW submitted?

Also, according to their proposal I would STILL have to "notify" X which weekend I would like them. This does not sound fixed to me. And "notify" would end up in reality X having the final say over which weekend.

At this point in their young lives, with all the turmoil surrounding them, you need to be the rock of stability for them. This *floating* weekend is NOT the way to go. And as you said, she gets to decide which weekend. Don't let it happen.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2999 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
standingonmarble
♀ Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, December 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am really surprised by your lawyer's attitude too. A floating weekend does not give anyone any stability and that is what all involved need the most. She is trying to keep her ability to be chaotic in tact and have legal backing to do it. Don't give her that power over the the 3 of you.

Remind your lawyer what your bottom line is again and tell her to fight for that. I thought you hired a lady shark, she doesn't sound like one. Ask her what has changed in her approach? Is she looking to end this before the end of the year for her financials? Something just isn't right. Just who is she working for and more importantly WHO is paying her?? YOU are.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
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