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User Topic: Hoping for a Wayward Point of View
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night, while preparing to watch a movie for one of my WH's classes, I watched him type in a password, iwtf---##, into the program. I was astonished. We needed to change TVs, so I got to watch him type it in a couple more times. I KNEW what it meant, and I calmly said, "I think it's time for that to change." He immediately said, "yep," but then followed it up by saying that the MLB was for major league baseball and that 32 was his favorite soccer player's number. And the "f," I asked? For "fan," he said. Riiiiight.

So after the movie, he was facing me on a chair, he was holding both my hands, and he leaned his forehead against mine, saying he was tired. I squeezed his hands and said, "What does the password stand for?" He answered that it meant what I thought it meant.

I knew what it meant because when I forced him to give me the passwords to his work iPad and phone, he told me that ---mmmw## stood for "I want to make my marriage work" plus my birthyear. Well, it was pretty easy, with that knowledge, to guess that the password I saw meant "I want to f---" plus her initials plus her age. Yes, she's 16 years younger than I am. Sweet!

I couldn't sleep well, so I got up about 4 this morning to come downstairs and type in my journal. He followed me down and asked if I was okay. I said I needed to perform a "mind dump." A couple minutes later, he told me his phone was on the table if I needed to see it. I sighed, turned to face him, and started a long overdue conversation.

I asked him why he hadn't changed it. I asked him why he chose it in the first place--5 months after the A ended. He said it was a pattern now and that he didn't think about it. I didn't say this, but I think it now that my Kaiser password is along the lines of "my husband f----- a P on date" and that I think of it every time I type it. He said he purposefully chose it back when he created it during the affair, then just lazily used versions of it whenever he had to use a password for something. He said that passowrd was also on a couple of our credit cards.

I cried and told him that finding out now made the affair not 6 months long, but 18 months long. He used the standard WW excuse (sorry) that he didn't tell me things like that because I'd get upset. Mind you, I may cry a little, but I don't sob, I don't call him names, I don't swear (because I don't), I don't hit. I told him I wasn't a robot and couldn't hide all my emotions just so he'd tell me the truth.

He was frustrated and defensive during this conversation--which might be natural--but he only got angry once when he brought up something he's brought up before. He told me he resented me for not getting into therapy when we found out in 2006 that he was a sex addict. He worked on his issues for 3 years, but I didn't work on mine (my major issue is that I'm co-dependent). I got angry then, too, and vocalized what I've felt: haven't I been punished enough for that? Wasn't the affair and the prostitute and the escorts and the hook-ups and the pornography and the sexting and the EAs enough? Haven't I been "paid back" for it yet?

I compared his recovery efforts with mine. He got to leave work at lunch time, drive 5 minutes, meet with a counselor, and return to work. When he attended group therapy, he stayed late after work, drove to a nearby church, then came home. Our town had only one therapist who called me back. I went to her for 6 sessions. She listened; she never advised. I never received a homework assignment, was never given a book to read, was never questioned about anything I said. It was obvious to me that my issues were his issues. But how could I force someone to help me? Plus, I had to go when the kids (6,8,10,12) were in school. And I had no other options when she didn't work out. My trek to the S-Anon-type meetings began when he got home. If he was late, my commute there (60-90 minutes one way) was nightmarish. I returned home to dirty dishes and a messy house. He never could (and maybe still doesn't) get how hard that was.

Right now, he's been to two IC appts--one back in March? and one last week. He had to take the day off work because it's 1 1/2 hours from work and was in the middle of the day. It was the only thing he could get 4 weeks ago. His next appt is a month away. He used that to say how much effort he's making. But he didn't ask if there was a facility closer to his work. And he hasn't gone to a 12-step group (because he's an atheist now). And he hasn't read a book.

I've gone to IC for 3 years now. My therapist has been seeing me, weekly, for free now because she doesn't want to leave me in a lurch, we have no money, and we don't have insurance that covers her anymore. I've been to 2 months of S-Anon meetings that are a 4-hour commitment with the commute. He only has 2 kids to care for and I still get the dirty dishes. :( I've read numerous books about sex addiction and affairs and love and marriage.

He says we're not on the same track. He was "ready" once and I wasn't; he isn't "ready" now when I am. What, I say, will make him ready? Why, when he can see what's happening to us, can't he make an effort?

So after he went up to bed, I decided to concede. I got his netbook (the one he uses for porn) out of hiding, gave him back the GPS trackers, changed my pass code on my phone to one he knew, and gave him permission to change the passwords on his iPad and iPhone from work again. I told him the only password protected thing I had was my private journal. When he chose to become transparent, when he chose to work on us, when he was "ready," he could ask for my opinions on what would help me to re-establish trust.

And that's where we are. I should say that I believe he's a terribly broken man who does, oddly, love me. That just may not be enough for either of us, though. Opinions? Ideas? Suggestions? Explanations for his behavior?

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 5:45 PM, November 25th (Monday)]


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a BS, not a WS, but I just wanted to offer my support. That must have been quite a shock to see he's creating passwords that mean he wants sex with OW, 5 months after the end of the A.

(((((RippedSoul)))))

I'm so sorry. You've been through enough, and I don't think any amount of explaining would justify, to me, him creating that password, other than he still wants sex from OW. Either that, or he finds the whole thing entertaining, and that's his 'secret' way of getting back at you for being upset by his cheating and thereby disturbing his life. Neither is acceptable.

Again, I'm so very sorry.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a former WW. There's a thing called "transfer of vigilance" that anticipates the BS's triggers. It means you do things without being asked- like getting rid of all the clothes I wore during the affair, not hanging with any friends who knew about the affair, never going to places I went with the AP. Without being asked!
To have this password created after the affair- that would be a deal breaker for me.
I'm so sorry...,,


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4903 | Registered: Dec 2010
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the responses. His actions definitely were painful. Dealbreaker? I don't know. I think that depends on what he does next. He didn't actually create the password AFTER the affair; he created it during the affair, then continued to use it afterward--because it had become habit like the two other nonsense passwords that we use in our family. We've both memorized them, yet they'd be very hard to crack. Still . . . this was different. This DID have a meaning.

Transfer of vigilance is a new concept for me. Is that something I'd read about in the healing library? Or that you learned in IC? Or from a particular book?


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to totally project on your WH. I could be way off.

He said it was a pattern now and that he didn't think about it.

Liar. He kept the password out of nostalgia. He lied to you about it, when you first confronted him, because he hoped he could keep getting away with it. He probably gets a little psychopathic thrill from using the password in your presence.

He said that password was also on a couple of our credit cards.

Oh, hell no! I would insist those get changed.

He was frustrated and defensive during this conversationwhich might be natural

It's natural when a WS is up to no good. If he's still TT'ing and lying after all this time, I'd be worried. And pissed.

I decided to concede.

What you describe as concession sounds like a flavor of the 180. Good for you. Remember, the 180 is about you, protecting you...not about making him turn around. Hopefully he will. But let go of the outcome. As you said, he'll either choose to be ready, to be "all in"...or he won't.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20vs1, I am angry. And hurt. And I DO think there's some nostalgia going on. He loves me, he's even "in love" with me, but the A with her, Jezebel, was "good for him," he said once. I could see my therapist's hackles rise when I told her this, but I also understand when she said it WAS good for him and for his self-esteem. That's simply where he was at the time. I get that. I hate it, but I get it.

But that was then and this is now, and I want the reminders to cease. I told him that I'd almost completely stopped reading his texts/e-mails--except for days he acted weird and triggered me--and that I was angry that this slapped me in the face when I wasn't even looking. Of course, he agreed that the password would be changed.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, November 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for the concession bit, it is a little like 180. Probably more like S-Anon wisdom. In our early morning convo, he mentioned that I could only control myself--not him. He's right. I'm tired of monitoring him and his addiction. I'm also afraid of what he can hide from me. He's so incredibly brilliant, and, as a cheater, has the upper hand--like a soccer player making a penalty kick.

After our chat, he went back to bed. I didn't. Here's what he woke up to yesterday morning:

"Thanks for following me downstairs in the wee hours of the morning to see if I was okay. Thanks for offering up your phone. Thanks for the more-than-50-minute-conversation.

I love you. I'm sorry that my anxiety and insecurity lead me to push your recovery efforts. You're absolutely right that I've wrung every confession and concession from you except for the initial one in January.

So--difficult as it may be--I'm giving control back to you. You'll find the trackers and the netbook next to your iPad and iPhone. You may change the passwords. When you're ready to be completely transparent, I'll be happy to tell you how you can help me rebuild trust.

My phone pass code is back to what you know. The only thing in my life that's password protected is my journal. Someday, when we've healed, you may have that access, too. Until then, and unless you ask to hear snippets of it, my pain will remain private.

I love you."

So he woke up, came downstairs (I never went back to bed), went to his phone and read the message. He never directly said anything to me about it. About 15 minutes later, I braved going in to the family room to fold clothes that were there. We both just looked at each other. He wasn't watching TV (VERY out of character)--just sitting there in silence. When it got to pairing socks time, our daughter asked a question that broke the awkward silence and got us both giving each other those looks that you share when you've been together a long time. It was good. When I went about my day, it was comfortable again.

Later, when I was getting ready for church (hot rollers in my hair) while preparing a lesson at the computer, he came in and invited me to watch a soccer game on TV with him. It was a horrible time for me, but I wanted to respond to his overture, so I gauged how much time I could give and said I'd come relax for 15 minutes. When I sat down next to him, he pulled me over close--as usual--but it didn't work because of the rollers. We both laughed. He later said I was pretty even with them in. I said I looked like an alien. So we enjoyed a few minutes together like that, then I left and returned to my preparations. He came in--another nice gesture--to tell me he wouldn't be going to church with us (I'd already figured that out because of his not showering and because of how he likely felt about himself right then--perhaps even a bit of conscious or subconscious punishment for me?). Unstructured time for a SA not in recovery is bad and he knows it freaks me out. Still, I've asked him to tell me and not make me guess or find out at the last minute that he won't be accompanying us as a member of the family. When I was walking out the door, he told me I looked beautiful. So did my eldest daughter who didn't remember the last time I'd worn that dress (12 years earlier at her grandpa's funeral. It's amazing what the infidelity diet--then lots of working through my frustrations at the gym--can do for a body!).

Once I returned home, we went to family night at a friend's house. I gave the lesson, using a Thanks tree and a Giving tree. We went around the group (including children) and articulated something we were thankful for. His was for a forgiving wife. Everyone, of course, laughed, but he and I knew what he really meant.

Everything else that day and today has revolved around his not saying he's sorry but trying to show me that he is. He's sending even more nice e-mails than usual including today's Merriam-Webster Word of the Day: rectitudinous--characterized by the quality of being honest and morally correct--and said "this
definition reminds me of the scene in Groundhog Day. 'Me, me, me again.'" And, as he's a vet, we'll be going to dinner tonight.

This is an example of what I'm dealing with. I TRULY think he loves me. He's an addict who's been tremendously damaged. He knows how to try and fix himself but is foot-dragging because he knows how painful it will be. He is SO vulnerable--which scares me because it places US (his family) in such a dangerous position. And it is so, so, so hard to not be in control of his recovery. It is incredibly painful to realize how easily he could again self-destruct. It requires such balance to show him I love him yet to stand up for myself.

I question myself and my actions and my way forward just about every minute of every day. Like other BSs on this site have expressed multiple times, I just want to be near him, to have him hold me and cuddle me, to have him play with my hair and reach for my hand, to pretend this whole thing never happened.

But it did.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, November 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RS -
About a week out from DDay, my H expressed some lingering feelings of being "grateful" to the AP. I don't know if I have ever been so angry in my life. We now joke that I get a new car, a NICE new car, for that comment alone. I think the license plate will read "GRATFL."

Here's the thing - that ego boost was false, and any self esteem gotten from such a twisted place is also hollow and false. I know, my H felt it too, but now that his head is back on his shoulders and not between his butt-cheeks, he realizes that the A is the worst thing he ever did not only to me, but to himself. He was a good, honorable man who let himself be flattered into breaking committments to himself and our family. How can that produce real self esteem? The idea is preposterous. Self esteem is earned, and doesn't come from hurting people.

I am concerned that your H seems foggy, and you seem to be buying into it as well. Affair love is not love, and any esteem one gets from it is totally false and delusional. It is like saying holding up a bank with an AK-47 and picking a couple of people off makes you feel powerful. What does that mean, really?


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1946 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, November 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, bionicgal. You're absolutely right--that comment deserves a new car AND a personalized plate. :) And I agree with you one-hundred percent that it's not a long-term self-esteem boost to have an affair. It was, however, a short-term boost to his ego. THAT's what I get and accept. What he hasn't seemed to deal with is that as good as it was, short-term, for his, it's worse than that, long-term, for mine (and, if he ever gets into a complete recovery, for his, too).

I've read enough about sex addiction to understand, intellectually, that his actions are all about him and not at all about me. When I've told him how insecure I feel because of the women he's viewed in pornography, he's assured me it's HIS problem and not mine. He doesn't look because I'm undesirable; he looks because he's broken.

Is he foggy? Yes. Absolutely. But SOOOO much less foggy than at first. At first, the world revolved around her. Now, maybe only our moon does. :( Maybe even that is giving her too much credit. She's a pretty, smart, witty woman. He liked that. He realizes--like many waywards we've heard about here--that he can't have her for his mistress any more, but he still wants her as his friend. When I told him, back in October that no, he couldn't have her as his friend, we couldn't have three in our marriage, he was deluded if his "cumdumpster" (probably the most vulgar thing I've ever said to him in our life together) could ever be part of his life--with me in it, and I loathed her, he was dumbfounded and finally realized that NC was the only way to go if he wanted to make our marriage work. So, yes, there's definitely residual fog.

Will he be able to keep it up? I dunno. Will she? I don't think she'd initiate, but I think she'd respond. It'd make her feel powerful, I'm sure, to be so irresistible.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, November 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something about all of it sounds 'off' to me. I agree with bionicgal; looking back on the A, nothing about it leaves my H feeling 'affirmed' in any way. Definitely he entered into it for validation, and for a brief time he thought he was receiving validation and ego-boosting - but now, he would be the first to say that it was the exact opposite of that. If anything, it revealed to him how completely selfish and self-serving he was. Thinking about the A now makes him want to vomit. He doesn't want anything around that reminds him of who he was and what he did. He gave away all his 'A clothes', anything that she touched, anything that he bought during the A, anything that he bought during his MLC. He has completely given up porn, given up his iPhone, given up his computer, given up t.v. He does not want to go back to being that person - he is afraid to go back to being that person - not for our relationship, but for HIM and what it all did to him inside. It doesn't sound to me that your H really 'gets it'. It doesn't sound like he gets what he has done to you - or if he gets it, he's still justifying it to himself.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, November 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Plainpain, you're spot on. I know he doesn't "get it" or chooses not to. Obviously, I'm hoping that will change. Will it? I think only he can answer that. With therapy, maybe it will. Only time will tell. Some days are fine; some days I die a little more inside. :(


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 1:25 AM, November 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking from a wayward point of view, I see him not changing the passwords as him keeping the memories alive. I threw out clothes, shut down social media, deleted pics if there were any, deleted and blocked numbers, signed up for IC, read books, and found SI. ALL my passwords had XSO's name in it. After his A I changed every password I had to something that would remind me every day was a blessing.

The fact that he has ANY reminders with her name on it is disturbing.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2732 | Registered: Oct 2012
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, November 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with you all. Really. I just don't know what to do about it. It doesn't seem "bad enough" to 180 him; it just seems like he's not trying very hard. Don't know if it's because he doesn't care or if it's because he's lazy or if it's because he's still so depressed.

My long-term IC (and our MC for 4 sessions right after I found out about the A) had one session with him alone--just to find out who he was and where he was coming from. Months later, IC used the word "shattered" to describe how he felt when the OW dropped him. So he's a sex AND love addict. This wasn't just a physical affair.

It sounds like I'm excusing him. I'm not. I'm trying to understand his behavior, to wrap my head around it all. Have been going to S-Anon for a couple months; am attempting to stop trying to control him and his actions. Understanding, though, would be nice.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 3:25 AM, November 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gently, honestly, it sounds to me like he is still engaged in (or has rekindled) some sort of A-type activity. I hate to even write that. I really hope not. Your pain comes through so clearly, and the weariness of it all.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
Heartbroken2013
♀ Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


We went around the group (including children) and articulated something we were thankful for. His was for a forgiving wife. Everyone, of course, laughed, but he and I knew what he really meant.
.

Every single thing you said above, had me in tears ... I especially love the 'something we are thankful for' hence the reason I quoted it ..

[This message edited by Heartbroken2013 at 8:14 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 2012
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RS-
I wonder how much fantasy protected him as he was growing up? He seems to not want to truly face the situation, and medicate or disengage/escape with SA stuff and maybe and romanticized memories of OW. Let's face it -- anything other than she is the worst thing that has ever happened to him is romanticized.

I wonder if you are letting him in on your pain? Does he really see what you are going through, or do you hide it? If you hide it, it helps him to live in la-la land. I am not naturally a needy person, but showing my H my hurt and neediness has been very important for him to see the totality of what he did. And, it comes in waves -- not all at once.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1946 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, November 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all have good points and give me a lot to think about. So does he. He keeps me wondering about just what is going on inside his head.

Last night, after being intimate for the first time since the whole password revelation, we had a long, relatively productive and pleasant (if anything A-related can be pleasant) conversation. He wondered why we have these discussions if I'm not going to believe anything he says. I answered that I didn't actually know, but that I needed to ask and hoped he'd answer honestly. I did share the tidbit that if addicts' lips were moving, they were lying. He chuckled (that's what I mean by it being pleasant, not combative). He also questioned why I re-asked him certain things he's answered multiple times before and I told him it was because every time I got a new puzzle piece, the whole deal needed to be re-framed and re-calibrated. He accepted that.

Back in September, he went on another work trip with the OW--the last one ever, probably. They had a long chat (They'd had no contact from Jan-Apr, then started being "friends" and sending e-mails a couple times weekly from Apr-Oct. He definitely was more involved than she.) about how their marriages were working out with his doing better than hers. They were both frustrated by--but acknowledged--the lack of trust their partners had in them.

She also confided in him, again, about a new relationship she's struggling with. Yes. A third. She mentioned a flirtation at work that had led to the man trying to kiss her. She'd been startled (who IS this woman?), but also agreed to lunch with him. And she wanted a heart-to-heart with my WH about it. He told her he couldn't be her sounding board about that.

So the A part of his relationship with the OW seems definitely behind him although I think he desperately wants to be able to still be friends with her. It's hard for me to fathom why other than he HAS romanticized the entire sordid mess. He has not stated this, but he seems to think their friendship started well--as him trying to be a supportive, non-judgmental friend accepting a confession from her that she'd had an affair, lost membership in her church, and stressed her marriage. Being an addict, he's very sensitive to feeling judged (although he may be one of the most judgmental people in the world--if it doesn't involve a pretty woman). And now that she only wants him for a friend again (working on her marriage with the father of her children), they both think a friendship is possible. They are crazy.

I told him how I felt like she, still, is on a pedestal. He told me she never gave him a blow job during their A because she didn't like to do that and they didn't have sex one night before they left early for a flight (back in the midst of the A) because she didn't want to be tired, yet if I had done that before the A, I'd have been accused of being frigid or not liking sex. And I told him that she seemed to get a pass. Somehow, even though most men/women would declare me a winner in just about every category, I seem to come up the loser in his mind and in his memories.

He doesn't have a real answer for that other than that he was trying to start over with her, that he was trying to NOT repeat the mistakes he'd made with me (treating me as an object), that he was trying to be open and accepting--everything he'd not been with me. But, I said, then why can't you go forward with me with that same mindset? He said he was trying, but that we had much more baggage. I asked him what he was concentrating his efforts on post-D-day. He said that was easy--not being a jerk to me and to our children. Happily, he's done that for the most part. He hasn't put the time in to know how to help me heal from the affair, but he has definitely been easier to love. He's such a contradiction.

He told me last night, too, that when they first talked about making their EA a PA, he told her that he just didn't know; he loved me and our children. So the first time they WERE physical, she asked him, again, if he was sure he wanted to do that. It kills me to hear that stuff, but I can't ask him a question, expect honesty, then beat him up about it. So I don't go ballistic and he may not really understand how badly I hurt. I'm not sure I know how to show him because I've swallowed the tears--in front of him--for so long.

This morning, he was a sweetheart. An hour ago, he phoned, calling me "pretty lady" and telling me he loved me. I'm pretty confident he does. I'm just not confident that he's willing to do the work to "recover." Not sure why. Not sure what's holding him back from diving in. Not sure there's anything I can do but sit back and wait. I've got 5 years to be patient. If he hasn't done more by then, then I've got my answer. And until then, I'll do all I can to get my life under control and to make myself as strong as I possibly can and in as good a position as I can to start over.

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 7:48 PM, November 25th (Monday)]


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
3boys
♀ New Member
Member # 38736
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Liar. He kept the password out of nostalgia. He lied to you about it, when you first confronted him, because he hoped he could keep getting away with it. He probably gets a little psychopathic thrill from using the password in your presence.

I agree with 20wrongs on the above. My FWH also created a password for his laptop during his A using OW's name. How Unoriginal! Five little letters. Took me about 5 seconds to crack it. Unfortunately it never dawned on me that he could be so stupid. I mean that by this time the A was supposedly over, they were totally NC with each other, we were supposed to be attempting R, and we had just moved over 2000 miles away from OW's presence. I confronted him and asked why he was using her name as the password. He too, said that it was just a word, a habit now. I called bullshit!

I told him that if he was serious about our M having a chance of surviving this, he would immediately change it and all other passwords in my presence, after which we would go directly to C where he would confess to the IC and MC about this. That this was our deal breaker. He either chose me/our M/our family over OW and his little disgusting fantasy or I would file the D papers I already had immediately. I think it was that moment that changed everything for him. The moment when he truly realized how he badly had fucked everything up (his words). It was amazing to see the "fog" clear up instantly. He realized he was about to lose everything and I mean everything. He knows that I would have taken him to the cleaners and his own mother (who we were living with at the time and a BS herself) would have helped. In fact, she actually told him just how disgusted she was with him and that he had become the exact thing he never wanted to be. Just like his father (whom his mom D due to infidelity).

3boys


BW-47
FWH-54
M-28yrs
DS-24,DS-20,DS-14,DGS-10mon,DGS-5mon.
MOW-holier-than-thou Christian whore
2 yr EA, 2-3 mon PA
Dday-10/10/2009
R

Posts: 31 | Registered: Mar 2013
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, November 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with much of what you shared except that I don't think he got a thrill typing the password in front of me. I think he's still foggy and romanticizing how he felt with her, and he's admitted that hiding the A made it exciting, but he was desperately hoping I didn't notice the password. Don't know if he didn't want a fight or didn't want to hurt me again, but he didn't want me to know.

He HAS changed his passwords--like I suggested he do--and hasn't yet told me what they are. But I've noticed. One is my birthday. One is my initials and a variation of forever. So he's just a strange one. I don't know what he really wants, so I'll keep quietly observing . . .


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
Topic Posts: 19

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