Do I open up? Do I tell him I'm ready to end it? Do I tell him I have nothing to say and let him do the talking? At some point I have to say something, right? It's gotten his attention, so now what?
Like I said, full day today and I won't be able to check back on this post, but would love some insight. I'll check back as soon as I get home later this afternoon.
(Quick recap on where I am, he is not NC, they work together, though he claims A is over. Another group b-day lunch last Thursday where he made sure there was a nut-free cake for her effing allergy put me over the edge after almost 5 months of continued casual contact at best, A underground at worst, not sure, and he's not been forthcoming with their interactions)
There is no need for the talk.
Yeah....the cake thing would have done it for me also.
180 is about you moving forward and you should NOT initiate conversation about M but it's ok if spouse does intimate it.
Be calm act cool. Have your boundaries/rules in mind
1. Must have NC with OW which means one of them must find another job or next step is to D.
2. Must give you 100% full access to phone/email or D.
3. Must confess to all family about A or D.
4. Must attend MC or D
I'd have only a 3 to 4 rules.
Now here is the tricky part: He will most likely try to throw you off balance with emotional outbursts, excuses, downright lies, or other aspects of M. To stay focused just keep repeating YOUR rules. If he brings up anything else just return to your rules and keep repeating them. Stay calm.
For me this was the worst part... as the lies that came out of his mouth made me realize I was living in crazy town. I got myself a one way ticket out of there! - it does get better (((OC)))
(I honestly doubt A is over... that whole nut free cake, seriously?)
Also, don't keep relating yourself. Decide what your deal breakers are, state them clearly and calmly ONCE, making it clear this is the minimum you expect then don't engage. Saying anything else makes it more likely you will slip and start getting into emotional conflict and that's what you want to avoid.
If it were me, part of my 180 strategy would be to let him know in a matter of fact way that I was getting my ducks together to leave the marriage. Do not be overly emotional when you deliver that information.
I'd tell him that if he wanted to me to *consider* stopping that process, (and if you would even still want to) then I would tell him (again in a matter of fact way) my various requirements that he needs to fulfil from this point onwards. State that these requirements are no longer negotiable and you aren't going to be discussing them with him or chasing him for them to be followed. He either carries them out on his own initiative starting immediately - or you carry on the course you are now resigned to be on - preparing for divorce.
Some ideas for requirements could be;
1) He has one chance (Right now) to come clean in a new 'full disclosure' about the extent of his continued involvement with OW (OC, imo, it's at *least* a continued EA - at worst a full blown PA affair)
2)He prepares and gives you to send (if it meets your requirements) a new NO CONTACT letter written in his own hand for OW stating that any further breach of that contract by her will result in you informing her husband.
3) Ideally he puts in his notice at work. He enrols in employment agencies and otherwise *actively* looks for another job.
4)If 3 is not possible, then he alerts his HR department at work in confidence that he and OW have had an affair and request that there be no joint projects between them going forward - OR - if you are still not prepared for his work to know - he must requests a transfer asap with personal reasons cited as to why.
5) If 4 is also not possible - then he goes completely NC with OW at work unless communication is strictly *about* work and then all communication must be by e-mail and forwarded on to you with no exceptions. One slip of this requirement and all deals are off.
6) He takes packed breakfasts and lunches - tell other colleagues he's on a diet and not joining in group breaks until further notice. (Yes, I'm serious packed lunches or divorce.)
7) He has gps put on his phone and has that phone on him at all times.
8) He responds at immediately with no delay to any 'picture' requests sent from you using his gps phone.
That's just a few ideas. OC he is going to try to fight any conditions at all tooth and nail, he is not going to want to comply because he is used to doing as he pleases and walking all over your requests. He is going to gaslight you and try to say that you are over reacting - he may even try to verbally bully you into submission about it. Please do NOT listen to him. Your husband does not want to stop what he is doing and he does not want to face ANY consequences for his continued actions.
You cannot 'nice' him into any of these requirements - you've already tried that and he ignores them and continues to lie to you and disrespect you. The only thing that is going to work with him now is him believing in your strength and determination to leave him if he doesn't comply with your demands. State your requirements clearly and then go back on the 180 and watch his actions. Don't get into an argument with him about it either. If he tries to start one - walk away.
OC, if you let him get away with anything now, I honestly believe that your marriage is doomed.
I'm sending you much mojo and strength to help you see this thing through. You're very much in my thoughts. ((Hugs))
[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 10:27 AM, October 27th (Sunday)]
But the 180 is not to get him to do something. It is for you to learn to live your life without swirling around him.
A BS really needs to visualize in their mind how you tightly hold onto the rope to hold the WS and you are trying to drag them kicking and screaming back to you. But think about letting go of that rope, just let go. If the WS wants to come back to you they will do it on their hands and knees willing to do anything.
If he is still holding onto the rope and you haven't let go then all he has to do it hang on until you pull him in once again.
Just let go. Stop chasing him. I know it sounds harsh but its not meant to be. You can't change them. They have to want to do it on their own.
The 180 is for your healing, you can still communicate while healing, just don't get caught up emotionally if he starts with bs and lies, end the conversation. It can be very hard but it is doable.
Here is my post I was referring to:http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=511219&HL=40330
I would be tempted to send a nice homemade peanut brittle to his office.... banana nut bread... maybe throw a couple of nuts in the dryer with his clothes ... j/k
That is effing hilarious! Actually, rubbing his underwear with nuts would be something I would consider.
Do I want R? I don't know. Even if he did every single thing exactly as he should from here on out I don't even know if I can forgive what he's already done. I have NO faith in him whatsoever anymore. He's a stranger to me. On the flip side, I have 2 young kids to think about. Regardless, you guys are keeping me strong and no matter what I'm staying the 180 course and I will see where that takes ME, not him.
A huge bummer is that he took off tomorrow, and I work from home, hating the idea of the 2 of us alone together all day. I need to ZIP IT.
And calling him a nut-free cake eater is hilarious, love that.
And I find the more I say, the more he doesn't listen.
One thing he does, is try to trap me into answers, so be weary of that, if you can.
I think it's time for the old "Nod and Smile", (ETA if I had money, I would open a pub and name it this) which I was just writing about in another thread. If there's a way to "talk" without disclosing much about yourself and your current life, it will help, in the end.
And I always give myself a small reward after one of these if I stuck to my plan and didn't lose it, also. A cup of coffee, a take out meal, a bath, a movie at my house just for me, a long walk, a new shirt. Just to say, "I did it."
[This message edited by Ashland13 at 5:18 PM, October 27th (Sunday)]
You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono
A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess
Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.
I would simply say, "At this point, no--we don't need to talk. Until and unless you're ready to <list conditions for R>, there's really not much to talk about."
And then I'd leave the room. Because the man is still in the affair, at least in is head. And there's absolutely no progress to be made with him until he's not.