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User Topic: Roadbump
grace68
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Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is CRAZZ a technical person? Maybe in the area of math, science, computers, accounting...something of that nature?


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
Jrazz
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Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why yes. He's an Engineer, specializing in Manufacturing Systems.


Okaaaaaay.... go!

[This message edited by Jrazz at 7:00 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
thebighurt
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Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry, Jrazz. I could have written much of this; including your original post and those of inconnu, k9 and others.

My kids and I lived this life because I (like you) loved my FWH and this was the way I though it was.

^^^This, exactly. But we did everything wrong. For years, I tried to get xpos to talk to someone, even to talk to me about issues I KNEW he had. I knew what was bothering him and I think that's part of why he turned away from me. He was never willing to try to overcome it. But I really had no idea how to talk to him about it that would help.

What you related about the pumpkin patch made me so sad. We were grocery shopping when the kids were very small and I asked him to stop at a xmas tree lot next door to the supermarket and pick out a tree. I walked around looking at trees to find *just the right one* and turned to him to ask if he would take this one over to pay for it and put it in the car. He barked at me to, "GET IN THE CAR!!". I said, but I wanted to get a tree and he repeated what he had said, louder and then said, "I GOT ONE". He had picked up the closest one to the trunk of the car, covered in snow, and paid. When we got home and he brought it in, I took one look and was so disappointed. It wouldn't even stand up. It was horrible! The next day, I threw it out, got my nephew and went out on my father's property and cut one down. And this is only one example of the things he did to me/us forever.

He had a terrible childhood and he hated the holidays and anything that people normally do FOR their kids at that time. I guess that since he had a terrible time then, the kids should have the same disappointment. I, on the other hand, was determined that they would never know that pain, as my childhood was many disappointments too and I wanted better for them. Even the times he was a little happier and not doing those things to the kids, he was still controlling and said mean and degrading things to me.

Over and over in almost every post, I see either my M or the things that may have been tried had I had this wisdom to draw on.

What you said about being "wishy washy" makes me think of what he said was my inability to make a decision. I always stressed about possible unanticipated consequences or "what if it wasn't what I wanted after all?" I have learned that this came from his controlling also. A person controlled the way I was and for over 4 decades as I was will have a difficult time making decisions. After a while, it became: mostly, any decision I made was overturned by him anyway, so why bother?

In my case, too, it became just me doing things with the kids because I wanted them to have those experiences, but he wouldn't participate (again, I think because HE didn't have those opportunities growing up) and would stay home sulking, then give me a very hard time about doing it without him.

He missed a lot of things with the kids when they were little because he worked so much, but missed lots of other things because he just wouldn't do them. Now they say that they don't remember having him around hardly at all when they were young.

I can say I understand what you are going through but I have no advice, just want to say that you have much more understanding of the issues and how to deal with them than I did, lots of help here, and are also getting professional help. I'm glad Crazz has sought some help and tried to do the work to change. And I hope you are able to get a good outcome for you, whatever that looks like. (((Jrazz and family)))


Finding what life could have been....... Why didn't I see it?

Posts: 2280 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: the Other Side
jo2love
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Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Jrazz)))

I wish I had advice to help make this better. Sending lots of hugs and hope.


Posts: 34709 | Registered: Mar 2011
Threnody
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Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sisoon wrote:

Is ADD still an issue? The behavior you report resonates with me as potentially uncontrolled ADD.

I was thinking he sounds like an Aspie. This potentially means he is simply confused by some communication, and his frustration comes out as passive-aggressive or snarky comments.

When you said he was an engineer, it solidified this thought for me.

Do any of your therapists (MC, IC, massage ) have experience in counseling Aspies and their partners? It takes a whole different kind of therapy to work through it than ADD or "normal" (the hell?) relationships.

At any rate, I'm sending you a tremendous hug right now. Depletion with a child the age of yours is normal. Having this atop is a sure-fire way to cry yourself dry.

Be kind to yourself.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14040 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
Jrazz
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Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was thinking he sounds like an Aspie. This potentially means he is simply confused by some communication, and his frustration comes out as passive-aggressive or snarky comments.

When you said he was an engineer, it solidified this thought for me.


Ding ding ding. Two of his counselors say he sounds like he's on the low-but-registering side of Aspergers Syndrome.

NOBODY has explored it any further. I feel like it's not my place to diagnose him, but it just fits the mold so well.

And here's where I feel like a jerk. You know how we all hope and wish that someone will love us unconditionally? Well, wouldn't this make me the largest hypocrite in the world if he got an official diagnosis and I checked out because I don't like the way he is?? On the outside looking in, I'd be devastated for him that someone was like "I don't like how your brain is built. There's something wrong with you, so I'm leaving you." (Keeping the affairs of the A on ice for this aspect, of course.)

He does this mirroring thing which I've only just started to spot. Whatever the tone of a gathering is, he matches it. He will never set the tone, and he will never swim upstream. He is always blending in, but exuberantly. He loves to have someone directing the fun, and people love him for that.

Living with that person is really draining though, because I always feel like I have to feed or maintain the atmosphere. If I stop breathing nobody will breathe.

He's not an asshole. Robot is the closest I can come to describing what happens. A robot that gets angry and defensive when confronted with the reality of his behavior - not because he HAS to have things his way, but because he can't see more than two inches deep into the water.

So yeah. He cheated on me because somebody offered him alcohol and dopamine, two things that would numb out the yammering and begging and pleading for him to join reality. I can honestly see how it happened, and I don't think he'll ever do it again because the fallout forced him to examine his behavior. Losing his family forced his hand in a way that conversation could not.

So he's capable of understanding what he does. That's why it's so hard to decide whether to keep trying or just call it. It's honest-to-god hard for him to dig through his brain for the translation booklet, and it has to be exhausting to do it on a daily basis.

Our 2nd (and best) MC said to me, "Just because he's trying doesn't mean you have to stay." and I took that to heart. I guess I just pity him on some level because he does have a good heart. He just doesn't know how to use it without help. Sigh. Again.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 10:11 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
gonnabe2016
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Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All I've got for you is a {{{hug}}}......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7939 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
SerJR
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Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jrazz... I'm going to go out on a limb here as I recognise and identify a number of elements you describe about Crazz in myself. Maybe not to the same extent, but I'm figuring maybe a glimpse into my head might provide some insight. I'm making some assumptions here.

It's all about PID controllers (bear with me). These are automatic controllers like cruise control which are basically a simple algorithm. A lot of systems have these automatically built in, so any monkey that knows how to operate a mouse can drag and drop one into a system and use some default coefficients, watch it for 5 minutes, and be done. If Crazz is a similar personality to me, then he knows this isn't enough. We start first with a model of the process built around first principles of science/math/engineering. We calculate gains, time constants, dead times, look for second order effects. Then we look to see what other inputs we can manipulate. Then we build a model of the process output under the influence of a controller. We then check the model against a few different established tuning coefficents. We check that then against stability criteria. Finally, when we are sure that we've found the optimal solution, we take those same 2 minutes to drag and drop and input the numbers (double checking) and turn it on. Then we spend the next week watching it, fine-tuning, and re-adjusting so everything adds up from step one.

What I'm trying to say, is that for the task you see, there is a whole iceberg underneath that went into that tip.

Our minds do work differently, but that's not to say it's "wrong". I think maybe this is an evolutionary psychology thing (not sure if that's a real term), wherein different thought processes combine together for the better good. Some people are more fluid and dynamic with their thinking, others are more extroverted, and so forth, but each has their place and contribution to make.

So, what does it look like inside our head? Well... I think we are very poor at multi-tasking. In my head, I can only hold one thought at a time. I can chase down tangents and stuff, but about the only true multi-tasking I am capable of is drinking a coffee when I drive. Imagine, if you would, a freight train barreling down the track. That's what it's like in our head with our thought patterns. We're heading down that track, checking out the tangential paths trying to get to our end goal. The closer and closer we get to that goal, the harder we lock on because we have invested so much into getting it right. The problem is, we can't just suddenly jump to another track - there is a lot of momentum and inertia behind what we're doing. That's why, when a "distraction" pops up, we can get defensive and snippy - it's a natural mechanism for us to make sure we stay on the rails. Now we can shift gears and hop over, but it takes a little time to slow down so we can make that jump. We don't multi-task - the best we can do is time manage between different needs. So when Crazz gets frustrated when he's asked to change tasks, it's not you that he's frustrated at, it's the fact that he can't split time. Our personalities strive to get that best answer - when we have competing needs, competing for the same resources (time, money, etc) it goes against our natural instinct. What we have to do is realise that we can only get the best answer given the contraints and resources we have, prioritise, and manage accordingly.

Now, needs and fears figure in quite a bit to the different personality types. I think our biggest fear is the fear of being incompetent (where on the opposite end there is a need to be correct and respect myself on that). Now opening up like this and putting a wishy-washy theory out there which I haven't had much time to formulate is scaring the shit out of me right now for that very reason. But I believe this to be a driving factor in our behaviour. We put ourselves into our work, and see the quality of it as a reflection of our worth. Now, we know that no human being can be perfect, so I think maybe we allow ourselves to be wrong in other areas which are more grey and less black/white (such as who's right about feelings in a relationship) to give ourselves that ability to reconcile our shortcomings with our (desired/observed?) sense of self.

So in summary what I'm trying to get at is that it's difficult to jump tracks because we have invested so much of ourself into getting to that goal. But, that jumping can be done given a bit of work. I think maybe when Crazz is obsessing over something you might try prefacing your need with "hey sweetie - I'm going to need you to slow down the train please". I know it sounds kinda stupid, but it's a clear indicator/reminder that he needs to slow down and adjust his thought process to jump the track. It's also "inoffensive" as it's not as distracting as just jumping in with the need can be. Give him a few minutes to collect himself, and then when he is ready, proceed. Have an agreement with him that he will take at least one minute of reflection before he responds to the train comment.

FWIW, I want to think that Crazz has his heart in the right place. He wanted to get the tv mounted and spend time with your daughter. If he didn't give a shit, he would have told the two of you to go without him. I think maybe his head was trying to split between those two tracks and he felt pressured by the resource constraints and had difficulty with the prioritizing.

Now communication can be difficult, but I think that holds true in many cases as what one says may not match what they mean or what is heard. As an example, the other week my sales rep and I were out at a site talking to a construction foreman. He asked was slag in concrete does. So I gave him a very concise (3 sentence) summary of what it does from a mechanistic perspective. It was simplified enough that a bright 8 year old could understand it. He looked at me with utter perplexity. My sales rep jumped in and said "slag makes it better", to which he nodded his head up and down and said "gotcha". What he meant was different from what I heard and he asked. My sales rep understood what he was getting at, but I would have needed some clarification. It's not that any one of us was wrong - we were just looking at it from different angles/levels.

Now, our type isn't necessarily bereft of emotion. A lot of the time I think our hearts and intentions are in the right place, but we're just a bit misguided. We don't always react emotionally immediately, because we take that long, deliberated process of getting there. I think maybe the intensity of the emotion is the same - it's just been spread out over time and thus doesn't appear as that flash-bang others exhibit. Bear in mind that his emotions/weakness was beaten down and it's only natural that he may be on the higher end of being protective if he feels vulnerable.

This all feels rather scattered, so I hope it makes some sense. What I'm driving at is I think the two of you are capable of moving forward with some understanding, and hard work, unless I'm way off the mark here. Hopefully some of it sounds familiar to you, or maybe resonates with Crazz and has helped. If he wants someone to use as a sounding board, he's free to touch base with me.

I hope today has been a better day.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
ajsmom
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Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hon, as I hope you know, I like and respect you, so please understand that although this is going to come off as some wood flying your way, it really isn’t my intent. Rather, please see this as I do, from that wonderful 10,000 foot unattached viewpoint which is often the tool we all use to see things a bit differently.

IMO – the bottom line? Family ALWAYS trumps chores. No matter what. Frankly, this thread screams of Emotional Immaturity to me – from what you’ve described more on him (as we don’t have the other side) but actually a little on you as well. You are parenting this child TOGETHER, therefore, childhood situations and events should be celebrated as a unit. Mama doesn’t go off taking DD to a second pumpkin patch visit because the first one was torpedoed by daddy. Think about it – what’s the lesson that’s learned there? Simple - if things don’t go right, mama will fix it. Is that the “family” legacy you want her to have? If so, it will really come in handy when she wants her first car and one or the other of you says no. And to disregard and sabotage her naptime? Really? I just don’t get that kind of bullying mentality. It’s not like she’s just started taking naps for heaven’s sake. Again – calling ‘em as I’z seez ‘em.

I’m also confused about something you mentioned early on. You stated you put him in charge of scheduling the activities for the holidays, as they are extremely triggery for you. Look, I totally get that, but peeling the onion a wee bit here, are you sure it wasn’t it to teach him how tough it is to do? Or to “test” his ability and our desire to do family things? A bit to Crazz’s defense as to the pumpkin patch trip itself, was there mutual discussion as to when this would happen so that conflict could have been avoided? Was there a reason it was left for the last week before the holiday? The end result just sounds so tit for tat – you were supposed to do this, it wasn’t planned to my liking, now we’re gonna do it anyway, dammit, regardless of what you’ve got going on – and oh, look – now everyone’s pissed! Great!

There just seems to be so much discussion here about him from what makes him tick to what makes him happy to what pisses him off, to surely we need to diagnosis him with the whatever of the whatever complicated by the whatever because then I’ll understand him. And with that knowledge in my pretty little head perhaps be able to keep him in a nice tidy, little box if I follow all the rules as prescribed.

Was he this way before marriage or are his behaviors symptomatic to a post A marriage?

I ask because there just seems to be some common incompatibility here with two people living and liking things two different ways. Warts and all, the one thing my X and I agreed on were family things.

Yet, do this for me, would you? Think about YOU. Where are you really in all this? I ask because it sounds like you’re trying to hold him in the palm of your hand, and we all know what happens when we try to hold onto water. Remove the existential material things he provides and truly, how happy are you? Like inconnu said so brilliantly having lived this life, it’s not worth any of skill building you’re going to need to handle walking on eggshells the rest of your life, yet, it almost seems like you’re willing to take this to the MC couch to once again figure out.

I just can't stop thinking how exhausting that must be.


AJ’s MOM

[This message edited by ajsmom at 3:13 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21041 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
lieshurt
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Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And here's where I feel like a jerk. You know how we all hope and wish that someone will love us unconditionally? Well, wouldn't this make me the largest hypocrite in the world if he got an official diagnosis and I checked out because I don't like the way he is?? On the outside looking in, I'd be devastated for him that someone was like "I don't like how your brain is built. There's something wrong with you, so I'm leaving you."

Jrazz, I understand the point you are making here. However, this isn't your first priority to take into consideration. You first priority is that precious baby girl. She doesn't need to keep seeing her daddy treat her mommy the way he does. She doesn't need to grow up thinking this is acceptable treatment for herself. Ya know?

From what you describe and no matter what situation you are in, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't with him. It's a horribly stressful way to try to live.

(((hugs)))

[This message edited by lieshurt at 3:09 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13724 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
sisoon
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Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, an M should be a partnership. If Crazz can't or won't be your partner, you can end the M with your head held high, no matter why Crazz doesn't do his part. To understand all may be to forgive all, but it doesn't mean you have to stifle yourself for the rest of your life.

Living with that person is really draining though, because I always feel like I have to feed or maintain the atmosphere. If I stop breathing nobody will breathe.

That's a terrible burden to carry. I see more clearly than before how hard it is to stay full and how easy it is for you to get depleted. (BTW, this sounds more accurate than saying you mother Crazz.)

IMO, you need to put down this burden.

Let yourself and Crazz just be. Take responsibility for yourself alone (well, and for guiding Vrazz). Really, Crazz won't stop breathing, and, if he wants, he'll find things he wants to do.

Maybe go so far as asking Crazz to focus on you alone when you talk to each other, to look into each other's eyes when you talk, and maybe even feedback to each other what you hear.

I read a lot of passion for living in your posts, J. I don't hear a lot of repose, and you need that as well.

Of course, I only know what you post, so I could be wrong. But I know what it is to be depleted WRT R, and I sure couldn't R from that state, so I assume you can't either.

Don't rest just so you can go back to being the active one. Rest so you fill up. Give Crazz a chance to become active and to lead. Learning to avoid depletion - better yet, learning to keep yourself full - makes your life better, no matter how Crazz responds. Easier said than done, but the payoff makes the effort worthwhile.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9991 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
ladies_first
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Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He does this mirroring thing which I've only just started to spot. Whatever the tone of a gathering is, he matches it. He will never set the tone, and he will never swim upstream. He is always blending in, but exuberantly. He loves to have someone directing the fun, and people love him for that.
Got it. "He loves to have someone directing the fun."

This year he was supposed to be the "cruise director" for the holidays. I knew that this was not really going to happen, and I was trying to temper plans in as dates got close with no effort in sight.

You may want to re-visit your expectations for the holidays. You want him to be cruise director ... He's more comfortable having someone else (primarily you) run the fun.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Jrazz
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Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses everyone. Given the care and consideration that's gone into them, I'm not going to be able to sit down and give them the respect they deserve until later tonight when I've put miss thing down.

I read SerJR's and knew I was going to have to revisit, and with the 3 that follow I really want to do them all justice.

I'll be back later tonight.


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
grace68
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Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, October 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Threnody beat me to it. This is what I was going towards:

I was thinking he sounds like an Aspie. This potentially means he is simply confused by some communication, and his frustration comes out as passive-aggressive or snarky comments.

When you said he was an engineer, it solidified this thought for me.

Either that or he is very very left brained. The incident that stuck out at me is when he went into the garage and turned on the compressor. His reaction when you called him out didn't seem like defiance, it seemed more like....defeat.

If a counselor won't diagnose him maybe you could just read up on what it's like to be the spouse of someone who could be an aspie, left brained, or even a touch of OCD. It make give you some ideas or coping mechanism that might help.


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
DixieD
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Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm late coming in to give you a hug.

(((Jrazz)))

Add me to the list who read that and thought p/a. I don't have anything insightful to add.

Try to have a good halloween for you and the cute little razzie.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, October 31st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Speaking of the little razzie, I've taken a two second break from holding her up in bed (congestion plus asthma = sleeping disaster) to come say that I have to raincheck my response yet again.

Thank you all for your kind words and patience.


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm baaaack. For the record this response is probably going to span the course of several hours, so if it's completely disjointed I apologize.


SerJR: Thank you for taking so much time out of your chess tourney to pitch in here. It means a lot. Seriously though.

What I'm trying to say, is that for the task you see, there is a whole iceberg underneath that went into that tip.

That is really important, and something I need to be better about reminding myself. His processes seem arbitrary and superficial to me most of the time, and I know I need to look at it differently


Well... I think we are very poor at multi-tasking.

On this and several other of your points I think there's a significant divergence in your personality and Crazz. Whereas he is also a very poor multitasker, that doesn't stop him from trying. The thing is, it's only worth it to him if it's on HIS list. Sure, my stuff will get added to the mix, but the attention and care factor is nonexistent. He will do coffee, phone, drive, and check out some red barn off too the left without a care in the world, but then everything in the mix is compromised, and it either angers or terrifies me depending on the combination.

So the major difference I see HERE is focus selection. You have a process that you are able to outline. Crazz may also have similar processing protocols on a fundamental level, but it gets whipped around in a tornado in his head when he multitasks. Unfortunately for anyone partnering with him, this is his "comfort zone." Anger and firefighting are places he feels at home. (Quoting his counselor.)

I think maybe when Crazz is obsessing over something you might try prefacing your need with "hey sweetie - I'm going to need you to slow down the train please".

To this day I pride myself on starting most conversations as calmly and gently as I can. He has built up a mechanism for defense when he hears my "kind" voice. When I ask him why, after we AGREED that if I don't come in with guns blazing he will try to here me, he has no answer. According to him I'm not coming off as condescending, he just doesn't like being "told what to do." It's one of the hardest parts about this... there's no setting on the dial that gets through to him... until "11" when I'm a sobbing mess.



So in summary what I'm trying to get at is that it's difficult to jump tracks because we have invested so much of ourself into getting to that goal.

Back to your first insight, I completely agree here. When he has deeply vested himself in an idea or project I could do better to pay attention and wait until he has completed it before asking him to add anything else. Honestly though, it's hard to find a time where he isn't deep into some project he is prioritizing.


FWIW, I want to think that Crazz has his heart in the right place.

I think he does too. That's what makes this so incredibly far from cut-and-dried. I hear myself saying over and over that he is a good person but I can't handle the levels of anxiety I feel around him all the time. There's scarce peace or calm. It's not sustainable.

Ajsmom:

I like and respect you too.

You stated you put him in charge of scheduling the activities for the holidays, as they are extremely triggery for you. Look, I totally get that, but peeling the onion a wee bit here, are you sure it wasn’t it to teach him how tough it is to do?

Almost 2 years ago, this was a project proposed by our MC. It is supposed to be an exercise in him realizing that if nobody does holidays for him then nothing's going to happen, and it was supposed to be an exercise for me to let go.

Colossal, predictable failure. We moved onto it being in the bucket of things he's just not capable of due to his level of distraction.

It's not a happy answer, but it seems to be an honest one. This year he pledged yet again to "plan stuff" for us to do. You're right that there's not a little bit of emotional immaturity here. He's not an asshole, he's an emotional teenager. He's actually attending an anger management seminar at Kaiser per his IC's suggestion (for work related issues.... he gets really mad when coworkers don't trust him to race through a project and "question him". No comment.) They recommended the book Emotional Intelligence and went over some key points, and he came home convinced that he stopped emotionally maturing as a teenager. I calmly said that there may be some merit in that, and it may be helpful to read the book.

lieshurt:

From what you describe and no matter what situation you are in, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't with him.


Considering my "safe space" approach is almost entirely ineffective in these cases, I'm almost resigned to that conclusion. I'm still trying to look within and see if I am blowing it and need to recalibrate, but I 'm not sure if that is helpful or a cop-out in and of itself.

Sisoon - I'd LOVE some repose. It just feels like it's on some higher branch that is completely out of reach. I know that I need to go get a ladder or something.


Grace and Thren:

If a counselor won't diagnose him maybe you could just read up on what it's like to be the spouse of someone who could be an aspie, left brained, or even a touch of OCD. It make give you some ideas or coping mechanism that might help.

When he was officially diagnosed with ADD I started reading up on how to be the spouse of someone with severe focus issues. Not for the weak. Sometimes I think I just need to get over some of MY stuff and be more understanding of his condition.


Back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.


Thanks for the dialogue everyone.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 2:23 PM, November 3rd (Sunday)]


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Jrazz
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Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PS - In regards to only hearing my "side" of things... he has an account here and is welcomed and encouraged to read all of my posts.

In another clear divergence between your description and his behavior, Serjr, Crazz doesn't just have difficulty processing emotional things... it is positively abhorrent to him. His mother passed away in April 2009 and he refused to talk about for well over a year. He would be furious at me for bringing it up. I am not exaggerating when I say that he has brought her up three, perhaps five times since then.

You may have a different way of looking at emotional matters than me, or women, or whatever the buckets are, but you can at least talk about it. Hell, you can reach out to strangers, read about their pain, and process it in an effort to help them.

Crazz can't talk about his own emotions, let alone somebody else's.

So there may be SOME similarities, but if you had the opportunity to speak with him you might find that there's a big chasm when it comes to dealing/coping/processing anything that has to do with emotions, rather than blueprints.

It would be great if he were to chime in here. I don't imagine it will happen.

I appreciate everyone taking the time, though. It's really cathartic to talk about it here.


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
nomistakeaboutit
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Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Jrazz,

I've read your thread and can easily see that you are trying very hard. I can also see and understand your frustration.

I have a question for you, which relates to this:

In another clear divergence between your description and his behavior, Serjr, Crazz doesn't just have difficulty processing emotional things... it is positively abhorrent to him. His mother passed away in April 2009 and he refused to talk about for well over a year. He would be furious at me for bringing it up. I am not exaggerating when I say that he has brought her up three, perhaps five times since then.

My question is this. What was he like before you married him and how much different is he now? (Note: There is no hidden agenda in my question, nor is there any judgement that "you should have seen this earlier on", for example.). I am just very curious. It just seems to me that you and he are SO different and that your needs (emotional and comfort and happy/relaxed living) are going SO unmet, I'm very curious to know if things were ever different.

(I won't go into my story, so as not to distract from your situation, but I also married someone who was very closed emotionally.)

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 8:47 PM, November 3rd (Sunday)]


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 941 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Excellent question, nomistake.

We were always this different. During the honeymoon phase it was new and exciting - we found each other fascinating.

At the core I thought he was just an incredibly good person. I had never in my existence have someone pull the wool over my eyes as much as his yes-man charade did. That's not to say that he's NOT good, but the "Agree even if you're lying" behavior didn't even hit my radar on account of his coincidental goodness. If that makes any sense.

On the day of our wedding I worried about our inherent differences.

Without wrapping completely into our back story, I can now say with embarrassment that part of why I hung onto him was to show his family that their asshole antics weren't going to scare me off. I was blinded by pride. I was also blinded by the fear of being alone. I had an on/off relationship with another man that I was sure was my "soulmate" before Crazz, but I "protected" myself from him by breaking things off because I was sure he was going to cheat on me someday when he got bored. Crazz came along, and he was the sweetest little puppydog I had ever met, and the most handsome man I had ever seen.

We were drawn to each other, and years later I know a lot of that had to do with our codependency.

Ten years later... we have a lot of history, a marriage, a daughter, and a true best-friendship tethering us together. We yin and yang on almost everything, and I don't want to know how much more toxic than charming that is. We are soooooo different, but we do love each other. When we lie down for bed, that's the person we want to see.

Really confusing, and obviously not healthy. The landscape of the decisions I should be making here have been forever altered since we brought DD into the picture. Despite the fact that Crazz does not initiate activity in this family, he loves her with all his heart in the best way he can. I have difficulty with the idea of splitting them, or she and I, up for any amount of time.

Clear as mud?

[This message edited by Jrazz at 9:35 PM, November 3rd (Sunday)]


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17058 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
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