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User Topic: Am I doing the right thing here? Quick Feel like a hard-ass...
Raven96
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Member # 40298
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take the TV!!! If he doesn't respect his MOTHER, how will he respect his WIFE later??????

This is the problem today...kids don't have consequences because parents are afraid "they won't like us anymore."

Like you said...had he sucked it up his first year and came to you over the summer and asked again, you would have said yes. Guess what...now he gets NOTHING!!!

I'm with you on this! It's your TV. You said he couldn't take it. He did, anyway. Umm...isn't that stealing?? This is his consequence. Let your XH buy him a TV.

BTW: My parents did and said unbelievable things to me growing up, and I had unimaginable consequences for some of my actions. For my own good. I love my parents very much and am thankful for the way they were because that made me who I am today!!!!

Good job, MOM!!!

[This message edited by Raven96 at 7:48 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]


Marriage isn't a test, so why cheat?

Posts: 379 | Registered: Aug 2013
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think humiliating him while at the same time making you look like 'the bitch' will solve the problem but may instead, escalate the distance between the two of you.
figure out how to discuss with him ways to communicate......maybe there's a way to clear the air so everyone walks away with a different understanding of each other instead of anger and resentment which sounds like it might happen if you drive there to pick up the tv.
it's one of the most important and the last transition period for our kids where we have a real opportunity to share our views of the world, our morals and values and also our coping skills before they are truly on their own.
Take the TV or don't, I'm not sure what's best there. But DS19 needs to hear why you're upset. He needs to hear that he's exhibiting a quality of his dad that frightens you. He needs to hear that his dishonesty has damaged his credibility with you and that trust is hard won and when damaged, hard to repair. I'd use this as a growing up lesson for him, and as a clear the air/bonding experience for your relationship with your son if you can. Because if you don't be real about this, he'll continue to think it's about a TV that you could easily afford to buy him 20 of so he won't really get why you care.
I really understand you, gonna, 'cause I feel we have a lot of the same parenting style. Your reaction would have and could have been something I would do. I can relate to this situation. FWH and I were recently talking about middle child, DS27. We look back at some of what we did with him and regret that we choose to "humiliate" him, even though what he did was very wrong and we were "right".

Your anger, most likely really disappointment in your son, is righteous. However, I feel you might want to take the approach that Alex and cayc suggest. Go to your son' apartment. Take him out for a cup of coffee. Talk to him. He is a child, always will be your child, but treat him as you would an adult (not Sultan) and talk. Ask him what you should do. Ask him if you should take the tv. Ask him what he would do if he was placed in the same situation as you. I feel this is a serious situation and must be addressed but just going and taking the TV just might backfire on you. Depending on the talk you have with him, decide then if you should take the TV or not.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:19 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9713 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
k8la
♀ Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As you take the tv back, express your boundaries and limits at the same time you express your appreciation of who he normally is:
1. I expect an apology - you knew the limit - you defied it with sneaky behavior, which is a huge disappointment to me, given that you have always been trustworthy.
2. Since you've broken my trust, I expect that given the fact that you are a good son, and have been taught to be honest and honorable, I want you to consider what you need to do to make amends for violating my trust.
3. I'm not taking the tv back to be a hard ass; had you asked, given the change in your circumstances, we could have probably worked to an agreement and you would have kept my trust. I'm your mother and I'm still responsible to hold you to being the kind of man you will be proud to be. That means, I HAVE to take the tv back as a natural consequence of broken trust.
4. Trusting you to behave yourself in China is riding on the quality of your amends and behavior from here on out. You are not ENTITLED to anything. I give you everything I can, but I'm your parent, not your doormat or your ATM. If I cannot trust you, I will not be funding any of your trip to China. Do I make myself clear?
5. I love you! Don't disappoint me again!

Posts: 158 | Registered: Feb 2013
emotionalgirl
♀ Member
Member # 40184
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no kids but I have to put my two cents in.... Take the tv!

I wish more parents were as good at parenting as you apparently are! I work in a management role in healthcare and if I have to deal with one more self important, entitled snot nose 19 or 20 year old I may choke someone. If parents don't teach them that they are not just entitled to everything and that the world does not revolve around them, then guess who does get to do it? People like me, and let me tell you it can get ugly sometimes!

Bless you for having a conscious and trying to raise productive honest humble members of society!


1st D day: Saturday July 20,2013
2nd D day....when the s**t really hit the fan and the truth came out.Saturday August 3,2013
3rd D day: Friday August 16, 2013...NC sent Friday Aug 30 4th D day NOV 11
Me: BS
Him: WH
Married 25 years....finally in R

Posts: 373 | Registered: Aug 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what you say, you're not just walking in on him and taking the toy back. He's said 'OK' to your coming today.

I think he sees some humor here. (I do anyway.) He pulled a fast one on you. You finally caught on. He's now paying the price.

You almost have to take back the TV.

China? Even 64 years after the Revolution, the old ways hold sway in China. He needs a guide. A guide with white hair would open a lot of doors for him. Just sayin'....


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think humiliating him is an issue. It's not like you are going to storm into his dorm/apt guns blazing screaming like a mad woman.

You are going to take back something he took from home without permission. Simple, no further issue, just respect me going forward.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3822 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He pulled a fast one on you. You finally caught on. He's now paying the price

Yea, this pretty much sums it up. And he really doesn't seem too broke up about it. We'll see. I'll be heading up to see him in a little while....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8038 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just want to give you a great big hug! Love it when I see parenting like this.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
cissi
♀ Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't understand why so many here have said picking up the TV is going to be such a humiliating experience for the son. He took the wrong TV, she is picking it up. What is the big deal here? He doesn't have to inform his roommates why she is picking it up, just that she is. If something that little humiliates him that much he has problems bigger than entitlement. Personally I don't think he is going to be bothered about it but maybe that is just me thinking the situation is nothing to be bothered about.

[This message edited by cissi at 3:47 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]


Posts: 1417 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
tryingagain74
♀ Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. He's lucky that you're letting him have the small TV. I would probably march over to the dorm, take the larger TV, and inform my child that he doesn't need a TV after all-- he really should be studying.

He had no right to do that. Who cares if he's embarrassed because his mom has caught him being underhanded and is calling him out on it? I have taught A LOT of entitled kids over the years, and it frustrated me to no end when I knew their parents were not punishing them despite their poor behavior and/or grades.

Go get that TV-- he needs to see that entitled, selfish behavior leads to consequences.


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3607 | Registered: Oct 2011
StrongerOne
♀ Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not only should you take YOUR tv from his apartment, but you should not give him the smaller tv. I would also rip up one side and down another for STEALING your tv and worse, LYING about it.

OK, I wouldn't yell -- I'd go the calm, reasonable why I'm disappointed in you, and you will have to earn back my trust because you disobeyed me and, worse, lied to me about it.

Oooo, I'm pissed off for you!

And to the responders who said he picked up the wrong tv -- no he didn't. He knew just what he was doing.

[This message edited by StrongerOne at 4:17 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gonna's son is a 19 year old young man. He isn't a young child that needs to be "taught" a lesson. From all accounts, gonna's son is a good kid. So he made a crappy choice. Many of us do. None of us are perfect. I feel treating your generally "good" son as an adult and talking and discussing about why gonna feels so strongly about the situation is what is needed. A one on one, face to face discussion. Depending on how much of an "adult" he is during this discussion would lead to gonna's decision about the tv.

I do feel it is humiliating to be treated as a child when one is 19, whether the roommates know the details or not, gonna's son will know he was treated as a naughty child.

Look, we had 2 troubled teens in our home. The first being my nephew who we became guardians of when he was 13. His mother (my baby sister) was killed in a car accident. The sperm donor who was his "father" was in prison and never in the picture, except sporadically. My nephew was troubled when he came to live with us. He was a bad influence on our older son who was only a year younger than his cousin.

We used "tough love" . Had to. What we realize now is that maybe we over reacted with our son and didn't have to sweat the small stuff (which we definitely had to do with nephew). We really should have picked our battles with our son. It did do some damage to our relationship that we greatly regret and wish we could re-do. Our relationship with our son is now healing, but it is still a work in progress.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9713 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
StrongerOne
♀ Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I work with college kids,and have done so for almost thirty years. I have a young teen myself. And I was, many many years ago, also a teenager.

Go get the tv. Calmly. Do not give him another tv. Explain why you are taking it. I would use the words disappointed, lost my trust, and lying in that explanation.

This is not treating him like a young kid. This is giving him appropriate consequences for deliberate misbehavior and deceptiveness. If it embarrasses him in front if his roommates, too bad. He *should* be embarrassed.

You do him no favors by letting it slide or by making it a joke or by trying to soften it. None. I don't mean scream at him -- frankly, calm expression of disappointment will be much more powerful. And I don't mean, never forgive him. But he does need to understand what he did wrong, to apologize for it, and to demonstrate that he is worthy of your trust.

All the things we at SI say a WS should do. Because they are the right thing to do. Because they show respect and consideration for the other person in the relationship (spouses, parent-child, whatever).

I'll never forget not telling my dad that I had a math test, in middle school, on a day that he wanted to take me for an outing. He found up a couple days later. Didn't yell (which was highly unusual. He had quite a temper.). He just said, quietly, I'm really disappointed that you were dishonest. I've always trusted you as the one with the most integrity of all my kids. I guess I was wrong. Omg, I have never forgotten it. It made a real difference to my life -- it gave me strength to do the right thing when it was unpopular and even risky to my employment.

You are doing the right thing, because you are teaching him to do the right thing.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I'm home now. I ended up taking the TV. And I absolutely hate that I had to do that. Hate.It. I sat in the car and cried for about 5 minutes before making my way home. My sweet SN kid was handing me empty gum and straw wrappers because he didn't know where I kept the napkins.

When I spoke to DS19 yesterday, he was given 'food for thought.' He knew that I was upset and disappointed. And I had asked him if he thought that *asking* me about taking the TV beforehand might have been a good idea. (his response was Maybe).

So while knowing that I *should* take the TV, I was willing to hear him out and gauge his attitude about it. Obviously since I already 'spoilered' that I have the TV -- his response wasn't what it should have been.

He didn't want to be logical or reasonable.
He just wanted the bigger TV....and so he took it. He gave me 2 'reasons' that he took it:
1. *He* would use it all of the time and *we* would never use it since it was in his room; and
2. He didn't think that I'd notice that he had switched the TV's.

I told him that #1 could be used as a persuasive argument for why he should have been able to take it.....however, he was treating it as if it was conclusive. *you don't use it -- therefore, I can take it* <-- that had me scratching my head. Huh?? What's up with that crazy logic? I asked him if he could see the *flaw* in what he was saying.....because under his premise, I would be able to decide that *I* could make better use of someone else's <something/anything> and so *I* should be able to just go and take it -- no harm, no foul. I pointed out that he was completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't *his* to take.
He's normally a logical and reasonable person, but he's unable/unwilling to wrap his head around this concept....which is what leads me to see a level of an 'entitlement' attitude in him. It's not a large attitude and it isn't a global one -- but every once in a while it pops up and causes issues between the 2 of us (like now).

As to #2 -- I asked him this: "did you ever ask yourself what you thought would happen if/when I *did* notice the switch?" He just shrugged. I told him that it had taken so long for me to notice because I trusted him and didn't think that there was a need for me to go around and 'take inventory' and that I never expected that he would do this.

I said that he seemed to be upset about the fact that I *noticed* and he was busted instead of the fact that he had taken advantage of my trust. Again -- he didn't say anything.

To his credit....he wasn't being 'snotty' about it at all. (to my face anyway. who knows what he was saying inside of his head)

This blows......

And. I have no idea what stbx will think of what I did. Most likely he'll see me as the heavy-handed 'bad guy'. He's been extremely, mind-bogglingly hostile towards me lately anyway. I really hope that he just stays out of it.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8038 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am glad you spoke to your son and gave him the opportunity to show you he understood your points and owned that he was wrong. You did the right thing to follow through and take the tv, I feel, gonna. He really didn't give you any other choice then to make him pay the consequence when he wouldn't own that his behaviour was wrong.

It is hard being a responsible parent. It ain't for sissy's! (I hope that isn't offensive to anyone, please forgive if it is, no ill intent towards anyone.) (((gonna)))

eta: hugs for your SN son, gonna, I absolutely love him. What a sweetie trying to comfort you.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:47 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9713 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hugs for your SN son, gonna, I absolutely love him. What a sweetie trying to comfort you

Thanks SMS. He saw me open the middle console to grab a napkin. A couple of minutes later, I notice that HE is trying to figure out how to open the console. So I showed him that I still had my napkin and told him that it was okay. I had the napkin sitting on my leg as I drove and he reached over, grabbed it, held onto it for a bit....and then handed it to me. He did that a couple of times. Then he found a piece of mail in the car that had DS19's name on it. He pointed to the name and then wiped his eye with his hand (that's his sign for cry or sad). He's a cool kid. (and he was lucky enough to score a side hug from his older brother before we left -- which was really nice to see.....) Oh, and the cherry on top was that he let me brush his teeth without turning it into a big battle. That was awesome, too.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8038 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Gonna))))))

Coming to the party late, but you did the right thing by taking your property back.

The reasons he gave don't make sense. What he is saying is that if one of his roommates isn't using something and let's him use it-his logic -he can just keep it. Without telling the roommate?

I wonder how he would feel if the situation were reversed?

Gonna, you're an excellent mom. Don't let your STBX cause you to second guess your parenting your boys. They will learn about how life really is from you. From him they'll learn about life in Disney land.

More hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5162 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
LAFA
♂ Member
Member # 31868
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, October 27th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad you put your foot down, firmly. It's a shame the sperm donor taught him that it is OK to treat you with that kind of disrespect. I hope the lesson is learned.


When you put someone on a pedestal, they quickly learn two things. The view is mighty good from up there, and it is a fine vantage from which to kick.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Hawaii
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, October 27th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, remember that the parent-child relationship is different from any other. I just remember giving compliments to other fathers about their teen-aged sons only to receive looks that said 'You can't be talking about MY son - and giving the same look when someone complimented my son. In other words, it's probably just you he'll take advantage of.

OTOH, your son is heavily influenced by his father. Your being honest with him is the best thing you can do to show him it may be a good idea to develop empathy and respect form others. I don't feel good saying that, but I think it's something worth considering.

Besides, you made your decision, and it's done. And it was a good decision anyway.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Raven96
♀ Member
Member # 40298
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, October 27th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your son deliberately disobeyed you. Nineteen or not, there had to be consequences. I'm glad it went well, and I'm glad it's over. That had to be so hard for you!

Sometimes kids just don't think...but he did sneak it out of the house. You did good, Mom.


Marriage isn't a test, so why cheat?

Posts: 379 | Registered: Aug 2013
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