So the SA group here is in a bit of turmoil. I'm wondering if this is going on everywhere or just our neck of the woods? It's been voted that there can no longer be a men's only group. If they keep meeting, they can no longer call themselves SA.
An alternative is something like Net Nanny. You can filter out most of the questionable sites, and also limit the time they can log onto the computer. I use it for my kids, and I have it on uber lockdown - they can't get on any site I haven't added to their safe list, can't chat, and can't use it between 8pm and 8am.
Also be advised it is pretty easy to pull internet history, even "private browsing" through the DOS prompts of your PC and the Macs (IDK about iPads, etc but probably). It is there until someone deletes it through the DOS prompts. So if it's empty, then you know someone erased it on purpose and that's all you need to know anyway.
And like it was stated, there are so many cheater/sex/porn apps out there now, you can't really prevent anything anyway if they are bound and determined. When you get further down the healing pipe, you learn to trust your gut and know when/where to look. If you want to. If you don't want to live like that, then DON'T, get out.
Except when it comes to my own gut. I, unfortunately, learned not to trust my gut; I thought I was. I really don't have that "spidey sense" that so many of my Sanon friends describe or that you guys have talked about. I have learned that I cannot control what he does.
And I did feel the need to check compulsively for awhile. Time heals much of that, along with the evidence I see in my SAFWH. Although I believe it's taken him forever to embrace real recovery, it wasn't long before he embraced honesty. He was so relieved to no longer be living a double life; that was very evident. Again, the fact that we had a reliable PASSIVE GPS program in place, and I had all financial control, helped both of us.
But he still hasn't made the changes I need to trust him with my heart, his blow up on vacation proves that to me. Maybe he never will. He does have BP2 and a long life of self centered, insecure just plain STUPID behavior.
((((((spouses))))))) So many of us still in turmoil. Where's that magic wand I ordered from Amazon????
Just now we had another horrible discussion where part of it was me expressing anger, part of it was me crying (the 180 is SOOOO hard!), and part of it was him promising to change and saying he was so confused but he wouldn't divorce me if I didn't want him to.
But you see, because of the keylogger I know he's still acting out and thinks I don't know. I know that the promises he made me were empty and that he will probably go ahead with his plans of moving out next weekend. If it weren't for me seeing what he was doing when I wasn't home, I might be inclined to believe his love bombing.
The other thing is, I don't have to admit to the keylogger. The youtube history also shows what he was watching. I know he didn't realize that youtube automatically logs him in as me, and all I had to do was pull up a history of viewed videos...voila. Proof is in the pudding.
All the same, I told him -- and it's true -- that my realization that he is not going to make changes is hurting me more than every ONS and every lie he ever told me. The promises he made me right after D-Day that are now being broken hurt more than his breaking our marriage vows.
So SAHW got into a huge blown out fight about what I posted earlier. He went into his immature ways and gave me the silent treatement all day which is the worse thing you can do to me. So I basically came at him with the D word and I know that is not what I was supposed to do. It triggered him and after a 1 hour fight, he left the house and decided that he was going to attempt to catch a train to the city.
I was furious because he left with our cash money that I needed and left me here with our 3 kids including our 4 week old. So I hopped in the car and tracked him down and gave it to him. It still resulted in him saying he was going to catch the train.
He basically said he wants to be home with me but wants me to stop "fucking" with him and that I don't want him and I don't need him anymore and anything woe is him. He said I bothered him all damned day and ruined his day. He texted me and said "look you are miserable and i am a sex addict so i don't deserve a family or you so this is for the best"
Anyways - after calling my therapist to get my head straight with 3 kids in the back of the car, I came home with the intent that ok - we are over and I am going to pick up my big girl pants and feed my kids and put them to bed.
Well I get home and here he is moping around and now he is upstairs. He said it was too late to get the train and that he wanted to be here.
I give up. I want to go up there and continue to annoy the hell out of him and make him more miserable but I have nothing left. I'm angry I don't have any wine here at home and can't get out.
I can't call my mother or family members because then we are definitely done. I can't have them buzzing in my ear.
What the hell do you guys do in this situation? How do you keep moving along while he turns into his 10 year old state and goes and mopes around? He thinks we will wake up in the morning, everything will be better and so on.
I'm so fucking tired of this. I almost got so dizzy a while ago and passed out.
He has sober moments, but he's not sober. I comfort (strange choice of words) with the knowledge that I have control over my decisions and my actions. When I am "done," as hard as it will be, I can leave. With your babies, your situation is harder; with your age, your decision to start over might be easier. It's a complicated, crazy, chaotic line we're all walking.
So . . . since my husband has used our extremely limited money to pay for sex and since the last time I caught him looking up and calling an escort (this month), he assured me (and it's backed up by the bank records) that he was sober enough to know we didn't have the money. Well, I just received--unbeknownst to him--a small inheritance ($1,000). Is it OK to open a new account and send the paperwork/mail to my BFF (the only one who knows everything aside from my therapist)? To protect the money?
When my BFF went to Al-Anon meetings 15 years ago, they actually encouraged a slush fund for possible separation, to pay for hotels if the spouse needed to get away from a drunken rage, etc. Does that make sense? He spent (that I'm aware of) $600 on prostitutes/escorts and $100s on gifts for his AP. That's chump change, I know, for some, but that's a LOT of money for us. I'm wearing clothes that I purchased when I was single (23 years ago) or that I buy at Goodwill. I get my hair cut once a year (whether I need it or not).
I do NOT want my inheritance spent by him to further desecrate our marriage vows. As you can tell, though, I'm conflicted. I have no accounts to which he dosen't have access. And I don't think he's in a place where he can handle hearing how little I trust him right now. Advice?
I just got home from a halloween party and both of my kids spent the night at friends so I'm completely alone. I'm sitting here crying because I'm so angry and sad. We should be enjoying our life and here we are in our separate houses alone. We don't have family near us so until recently we never really had time to ourselves because we never had anyone to watch our kids and for most of our marriage didn't have money to pay a babysitter. We made it to this point that our kids have their own lives and this is where we're at. We could finally be spending real time together and he ruined it. It's just one more thing he took from me.
I can't stop crying. I feel like I'm back where I was 6 months ago. I wish I could walk away, I wish I could stop loving him. I'm so tired of riding this roller coaster.
My brakes need to be fixed on my car but the estimate is more than I can afford. H decided he's going to fix them for me to save me money. When I replied saying I would repay him somehow, he texted me and said "I owe you... alot" What does that even mean? Owe me for what. For being blind and not realizing what was going on for at least 12 years of our marriage. For believing every word that came out of his mouth, even though my gut was screaming at me. For still loving him and believing he can be a good man despite everything. I appreciate that he's doing the work for me but sometimes it just causes me more confusion and heart ache. When he does stuff like that it gives me hope but then I remember that he's choosing not to go to counseling. As far as I know the only thing he's doing is reading on his own about emotional intelligence. Anyone familiar?
[This message edited by seriously2many at 1:53 AM, October 27th (Sunday)]
So after DD, I immediately transferred the emergency slush fund you talked about into an account that is only in my name. I told WH about it, and it was a condition of R. It's still there, and I have told him he can see statements whenever he likes as long as he is meeting my boundaries and requirements. He was totally fine with that to be given any chance at all.
At that time, included in my requirements and boundaries I would be monitoring his computer and phone activity, and GPS by phone if I could figure it out as long as I needed to. I pretty much said assume I and eyes and ears on everything he did. If he didn't want to live that way, he could get out now. I did not specify how I would do it, how often, etc. so he still does not know, and doesn't know if I still am - he's never asked. He also sent me picture verification of his whereabouts voluntarily, signed up for GPS apps on his own, etc. He also has to account for every cash transaction he does. I have access to all his email, phone, and financial account records.
Then, his mom gave me $700 for birthdays and our anniversary and such (she does this, instead of gifts she just gives lump sums a couple times a year for our family of 5) two weeks after DD. Previously I would give this to WH to deposit. This time I kept it and used it to fund surveillance on him immediately after DD, to verify what he was saying/doing. WH asked about it two weeks after that, and I told him I used it on surveillance to verify his whereabouts while I was gone o trip. He was not happy about it but understood it was a consequence of his actions.
He was soon after busted for omitting serious details in his initial disclosure to me. At that time, I moved all our savings into my account. Told him he was no longer trusted with our savings/emergency funds the day I did it, as a consequence of not meeting my boundaries/requirements. He said he understood and gave me no resistance. VAR verified later he cried all the way to work right afterward.
About a month later he got a significant bonus. He suggested we spend it on trip for just the two of us. I made it a requirement of R that half of it be used to pay a credit card in my name, and the other half in my account so I could pay a L for a post nup.
I did all this for two main reasons:
I could not immediately file for D, it was not to my advantage. It would have been so detrimental to me in many, many ways as things were ATM. I needed to get my ducks in a row.
I knew it was the only way he would seek treatment. Despite what happened with the M, I needed him to try to get well to be a father for our kids.
If it were not for these two reasons, it would not have been my choice to live my life this way.
After living this way for 2.5 years, I can say I am in a better position to file now, and I have seen progress in his recovery (although not as much as I wanted or expected). Had I known how it would all play out, and what expense to my sanity and health it would be, IDK that I would have chosen to do it again. But I did what I had to do to achieve those two reasons. What I have to figure out now is was it worth it, and am I going to stay for the long haul.
I think the truth for me, at least for now, I feel like I want to give him a chance to redeem himself. And, I don't trust that I would choose better the next time.
RS - Keeping some money for safety is not dishonest, it is smart! If you were using funds to cheat on your spouse or use drugs, that would be something else. Learning to keep ourselves safe is important.
Outta - So weird, my SAWH and I just had a talk about intimacy. He was saying how he misses me and touching me. I just said he keeps sabotaging things and we aren't at that point, again. If he would stick with working on himself, then we would already be well into that part of recovery as a couple. So frustrating, I would like to have sex too! Also I think questioning ourselves about why we are staying and writing it out is a good idea. I know on the previous thread several of us had done this.
Seriously - Him offering to pay for your brakes and reading some books is not enough to rebuild a marriage on! Without recovery, the cycle will just keep repeating. So focus on your own recovery and don't feel guilty for letting him pay for your brakes! It is the least he can do.
Hath - Love how well you write things out! So coherent. I am with you on the long haul issue. As long as my SAWH isn't acting out or using drugs, I am going to stay. Either one of those things and I am out of here. We just aren't going to be intimate again until I feel he is changing and really present again.
I had STD testing and that came back negative. I have to repeat the HIV test in 6 weeks, so I still have some anxiety regarding that. For me, the possibility that SAWH might have given me a deadly disease is by far the worst consequence of his sexual addiction. SAWH had STD testing 3 days after me, and he is still waiting for the results.
I had my first IC with a CSAT on Thursday. I was able to tell 'my story'. She re-confirmed what I have learned from many of you-- that I have to work on healing myself. I see her again this week. She has a 'wives group' that I may be able to join after we have a few sessions together.
SAWH had a 2 hour session with a CSAT on Friday and is in the process of filling out assessments and starting the Carnes workbook. SAWH has revealed to me on D Day and to his CSAT that he was involved in sexual molestation around the age of 10-11 that he has never revealed until now. SAWH seems like he is doing some of the right things to show he wants to begin recovery, yet at the same time, he is definitely making statements to blame me (which I promptly throw back on him, since I have learned I didn't cause this). Also, he swears on God and the Bible and his kids that he has come clean, but I don't believe it for a minute. I am pretty sure that he has only fessed up to what I have proof of, or could find proof of through banking statements. There is still the denial of the secret phone.
SAWH met with a pastor at our church and has been spending time in the Bible and seems to be starting a faith walk. The church has a 12 step program that we will both attend this coming Friday
I attended an S Anon meeting very early on Saturday morning. It was great to feel the acceptance and see these women still standing after years working through sex addiction in their spouses. The newcomer materials have given me something to grasp onto. I haven't reached out to call or text anyone in the group yet, but plan to do so this week. One of the ladies has a very similar story to mine.
I have also reached out to several friends I can trust. They are praying for us. Sharing the burden of this major crisis has been better than keeping it all bottled up. I am off now to meet with a friend.
Thanks for letting me share my journey with you all so far. I get a lot of strength from reading all of your posts.
We had our first MC session in 3 years last week. Were able to dive into his past of calling/texting escrots and I was able to get out that I'm at the point of considering divorce over this, and that I'll never trust that I've been given the whole truth. After session he flipped out about thought of divorce, first crying and begging then completely irate and financial threats. The saying I'm not allowed to leave him. Scared the hell out of me to not make any decision last week.
This past week has been limbo, I'm still trying to determine whether I am going to stay or leave, and he thinks because he said "I'm not allowed to leave him" everything is going to be fine and we're going to move past this.
We have second MC session tomorrow. I really want more answers about his past, what lead him there, have there been no relapses, and if the therapist truly believes he is a SA. Therapist did say last week that he does have sexual compulsive behaviors.
I just don't know if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone like this. We have been totally mis-matched sexually. He wants it way more often than I do, and gets really pissed if I say I'm not comfortable doing something or even if I want to keep my shirt on or something. I want to be able to feel safe w/ my partner and right now I just don't feel comfortable sexually with him right now. I'm really hoping tomorrow will be progress for me.
I don't understand why anyone who JFO their spouse is a sex addict would actually WANT to have sex with them at all, at least initially. From the moment I found out, I didn't want him to even touch me, let alone do anything sexually. Even after that started to fade, and I had HB urges brewing (and I really don't understand that either, why the hell would we want to), I still refused to do anything that could potentially spread a STD before two clean STD screenings six months apart for both of us.
Even if the SA supposedly only acted out with porn and such, or otherwise said there was no real sexual risk, you can't trust that is all they've done - and they are more likely to be lying about it than telling the truth. You could literally DIE if you caught the right disease from this person, and you have reasonable evidence to support they might be a carrier. And what's more likely they will give you something that will require a lot of treatment, maybe even for life (like herpes). Why take the risk?
So you say, I don't want to live a life without sex. If that's what I am facing, then I will leave my SA and find someone else. OK, but you have been having sex with that person until you JFO, and you could already be a carrier for something. You really shouldn't have sex with anyone either before two clean STD screenings six months apart.
I guess what I am saying, it's as plain as day to me that once you JFO your spouse is a sex addict, or just unfaithful for that matter, that sex should be off the table for six months no matter what your circumstances. Yet so many spouses of SAs want to jump in the sack ASAP. So many people on SI all over want to engage in HB ASAP. I don't get it.
I get HB urges. I have a healthy sex drive. I get moments of weakness as well as stupidity, back when I JFO and certainly now. But I'll be damned if I am going to be treating a lifelong STD, or die from one, because I couldn't hold out for six months.
Something must be wrong with me. Maybe I have been doing it wrong for all these years, and if I did it properly I wouldn't be able to live without.
That was 3 years ago and since have been tested for STD;s.
Now that we're back in MC and I'm in limbo as to what the state of our relationship is we havnet been sexual in about 3 and 1/2 weeks.
My reply to that was, "You can, if you commit to change!" But he said it would be better that he tried to change on his own than that he tried to change with us still together and then have a relapse and hurt me.
Listening to him say that, I think he has really convinced himself that this is true. I don't think he actually plans on continuing his womanizing, but all the same I have little doubt but that he will. It will be much more convenient to have a place to take them where he doesn't have to worry about his wife being there, after all.
I don't believe he will get counseling. Heaven help us all if he doesn't. I just hope he doesn't end up in jail, since one of his partners last year was 15.
Before he left, he kept saying, "I miss you!" and trying to kiss me passionately. And tried to...well...dry hump me. I had to push him off. I tend to feel more like Hath on this one. IF he were working towards reconciliation, I might try down the road to be intimate. But right now? Are you kidding?!?!?