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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-12
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to quickly note that keyloggers are illegal - I am currently threatened with a federal and civil lawsuit for attempting to install Webwatcher on my STBX's computer several years ago.

It is a very serious matter and my family law attorneys could not handle it. I had to hire a criminal attorney.

PLEASE do not break the law and install a keylogger on your spouse's computer. More and more wives are being sued for this. It's wiretapping. It's illegal. I wish I had known.

Also you will immediately be discredited in court or in front of a mediator if they find out you've used a keylogger. Using a keylogger is far worse in their eyes than being a SA cheater.


Posts: 1419 | Registered: Oct 2011
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After all those years of looking me in the eye, lying and gas lighting, I don't know if or when I will ever be able to trust him. For my own sanity, it's the only way I feel like I can try to protect myself and it will just be a bonus if I end up with some evidence.

There was a time when S-Anon taught us that “snooping” meant we were not working on our own recovery. There was a time when snooping was actually possible and effective. What I learned recently is that it’s no longer thought to be adverse to a spouse’s health to snoop and verify and check to see if they are safe in the relationship, but it’s also less effective now. I was at an S-Anon group gathering where Jennifer Schneider spoke. She talked about how it’s not “unhealthy” to check to see if we are safe, but then she told us about a conference she was at with another well-known sex addiction expert. He put his iPhone up on an overhead screen, and typed in his name, location and a desire to “hook up” into a new app. He then went on to talk with the group, and within five minutes his phone made a beep and up popped a message, from a waiter in the hotel where the group was meeting, stating his age, and wanting to know where they could meet.

So there is no real safety. Within a few minutes with a new secret smart phone, an arrangement to cheat can be made, and carried out. We’d never know. It’s very scary and the look on the faces of the spouses in that room was haggard.

I think that we need to trust our guts. If we get a feeling that things aren’t right, we need to trust that. As for me, I didn’t trust that inner feeling, and still don’t trust myself to know the truth in these situations.


Posts: 1046 | Registered: Aug 2010
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that we need to trust our guts. If we get a feeling that things aren’t right, we need to trust that. As for me, I didn’t trust that inner feeling, and still don’t trust myself to know the truth in these situations.

That was all I was trying to say. I am not saying not to snoop. Trust but verify is still my motto. If something doesn't match up or I have that gut feeling, absolutely I will snoop. Will I spend days and hours snooping, neglecting my own life and self-care - NO. I realize some have a harder time connecting with their gut instinct again, that will take time and practice. I did not intend to put anyone down, it is a normal phase. It is a response to the trauma and trying to make ourselves safe. It can be retraumatizing and just warning against going down the rabbit hole into the obsessive, unhealthy kind of snooping.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone have any input on the resource post?


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just warning against going down the rabbit hole into the obsessive, unhealthy kind of snooping.

The kind where you lose your life to it? I did that for a few months...maybe almost a year.


Posts: 1046 | Registered: Aug 2010
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone have any input on the resource post?

I like that you shortened it. I think it's really important to have those books and website recommendations right at the first of each thread. Thanks for doing that. I remember that it helped me when reading book recommendations to see what people said as far as what helped them to read first.


Posts: 1046 | Registered: Aug 2010
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I saved all of the previous post and can add back or edit in. I just thought having the comments about what was helpful separate, might be a little cleaner. So, any comments that anyone wants to put on just let me know.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What helped me was direction about which book should likely be read first, and acknowledging the trauma prior to looking for co-dependent behavior.

So, any comments that anyone wants to put on just let me know.

Posts: 1046 | Registered: Aug 2010
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How about something like "The first book listed is recommended to read first. Addressing the trauma of living with a sex addict is essential for the spouse or partner of an SA."


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
ctdean2004
♀ New Member
Member # 39637
Angry  Posted: 11:49 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to vent because I cannot think straight or breathe. I am so freaking frustrated I could spit bullets right now and it in the grand scheme of things is over something small but not small.

Here we are 1 year after DDay - SAWH has had 1 relapse and many many slip ups. About two weeks ago, I told him I am working on my boundaries and that I will soon share it with him because I need to hold myself accountable for dealing with my pain in this marriage or I will just be in a horrible cycle of forgiveness. Anyways - he wanted a "preview" to what I am ok with and not ok with or rather what the consequences would be. I told him lying and secrets is top of the list. We got on the topic of masturbation which is a tricky topic for me. I know that SA program's sobriety says no masturbation, however, I struggle with this and that is my own belief. In addition to that, my SAWH started seeing a CSAT and she told him they need to work to define his sobriety and that for some men masturbation does not hurt sobriety. So I was just being open and honest with him that I am not sure yet about masturbation but it is not the end all for our marriage however it is conflicting with his program.

Well he took that and ran with it. Anyways - I decided to take a break on constantly checking up on him and just focus on myself the last couple weeks. I asked him today, though, if he has been masturbating and he said yes. So I appreciated him telling me the truth but I thought it would somewhat be a conversation about slipping up. But what he actually told me - ah don't worry - my sobriety is fine and that it was ok for him to masturbate. He decided on his own a little while a go that masturbation was okay and not going to affect his sobriety.

My jawed dropped. He then got down because he thought WE had established that it was ok for him to masturbate. So bottom line is that I told him - f*** the masturbating - I was angry he has been doing it all this time and I am led to believe he is "sober" in the eyes of the SA program.

I hate that we had a good morning and I guess I ruined it by bringing this all up but I'm pissed. In a way I'm angry because I feel he lied/kept secrets from me and at the same time I am angry I opened up to him about my feelings about masturbation. it is hard because I've been pregnant (just had baby 4 weeks ago) and we haven't had sex since like - eek 10 months ago? And I don't know - part of me feels asking a man to not masturbate that long when we are not sexually intimate (and emotionally not because we have been dealing with the addicton and our troubled marriage) is hard. There is a part of me that doesn't give a shit if he masturbates. I am mostly angry that there seems to have been some misunderstanding but we all know that with our SAWHs, there is always some "misunderstanding".

So now he is moping around and we aren't talking and I am on the I'm ready to get a divorce. I want a divorce because I feel I can't trust him with a damned thing. As I am sitting here ANGRY, my 2 year old just curled up with SAWH, said "I love you daddy" and is lying on his chest. THAT is what keeps me from pursuing a divorce. My fat ass and our finances does too but I guess I just don't have the strength and I am just not sure if that is the right direction yet.

I don't know what to do

BTW - I love this site but it is killing my computer. Everytime I visit this site porn and other naughty sites pop up every 5 minutes. Just thought I'd put that out there.


Me: BS, 31
Him: WH/SA, 31
Together 8 years
Married 7 years
DS1, DD2, DSontheway 10/10/13
Official DDAY: October 2012
'09 some things came out, he went to SA, stopped doing it and he went to town! Always been caught and never confessed.
Rec

Posts: 23 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Connecticut
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ctdean - Oh, I am sorry. The lying and "misunderstanding" crap seems to be the hardest for the addict to break. You DID NOT ruin the day, this was bound to come out eventually. Seems that your SAWH should speak to his sponsor about "defining his own sobriety" because that seems contradictory to SA. Take care of yourself and no asking a man to go without sex for 10 months is not impossible, for an SA it is extremely hard. As for the pop-ups, don't you have pop-ups blocked on your computer? If not, do that ASAP.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CTD- You are dealing with an addict and it seems to me like classic addict behavior/rationale at play. Deflecting blame, making himself the victim in this, etc. Sounds like he may have relapsed again? Maybe not hardcore relapse but definitely not embracing recovery.

Don't do anything until you are not angry/irrational. Remember, if you act out of anger you carry that anger with you. This is one of the valuable lessons I have learned in therapy.

On a side note, I can't believe I am finally in a good place with SAfWH. Still have a long way to go - him with recovery efforts and me with trust and forgiveness. But I never thought 7 months ago when I discovered affair that we'd be so honest with one another, happy to spend time together, he'd be so self aware (and becoming more so!) etc. He said he really, really wants to make positive changes. I do see the results - slowly, of course - it's hard to change 40+ years of acting in a self destructive, negative way.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Missy,

Anyone have any input on the resource post?

I agree that it needed to be cleaned up and updated. The information that we were using was what had been posted over 4 years ago by 7 Years. I think she did an excellent job at the time of summarizing the resources.

I do have one request. I think that there needs to be links to the atheist/humanist 12 steps (they don't have to all be typed out, just links). Over the years, I have seen many people come on this thread and discount the 12 steps for them or their SA because they don't believe in a higher power. I don't remember who even brought them to the group's attention anymore, but I do think that they have been important to point out that the 12 steps can be useful for those who don't have Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Thank you for taking on the task of revising the guidepost for the thread.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also wanted to agree with Missy's advice:

I want to really encourage the new members to not get sucked into spending all your time monitoring your SA. If you need proof for divorce or confrontation, that is understandable. Spending all of your energy on monitoring them will only make you feel worse. Try and limit when you look to when you get a gut feeling that there is something going on. That helps you start to rebuild your instincts. This was the advice my CSAT gave me and has been good, solid advice.

I only verify when my gut tells me to, and I do trust it. Prior to the last d-day, I was making myself crazy trying to keep up with him, but monitoring his activities and being a super sleuth. The bottom line is that if they want to act out they will. Acting out can include scanning and masturbation, and there is absolutely no way to monitor that. If the SA doesn't want recovery, nothing we do can force them to be authentic.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TMY - Thanks for pointing that out! I must have accidentally deleted it because I did originally include the links Hath posted. This is why it needs to be reviewed by everyone!


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ctdean2004,

Your SA is not in recovery. He is bargaining, and looking for justifications. I am sorry, but I don't think he is there. As I said to you in the last thread, maybe you need to speak to his CSAT. I would not think that a CSAT would advocate that masturbation could be a healthy activity inside of a marriage for a SA. If your SA's CSAT really is saying this, he is not worth seeing. It is hard to know the truth without speaking to his CSAT yourself, because he is in active addict mode, and we all know that active addicts lie.

Take care of yourself, and examine your boundaries. Unless he really embraces recovery, this cycle is just going to keep repeating.

As for popups and porn, I do have my pop up blocker on, but why would SI be triggering those kind of sites? Is he using the same computer you are? Because my first thought is that the popups and porn are coming from his activities.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CH,

Also you will immediately be discredited in court or in front of a mediator if they find out you've used a keylogger. Using a keylogger is far worse in their eyes than being a SA cheater.

That sucks! Makes me glad I never put a keylogger on a computer. Hugs as you continue this awful process. You and NG's SA's are just plain evil.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
ctdean2004
♀ New Member
Member # 39637
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as popups - SAWH never uses this computer. This is my personal work computer and it has a very specific password that he does not know so why there are pop-ups, I don't know. And they only come on when I am on this site. I have the pop-up blocker on.

As far as the keylogger - what if SAWH agrees to put one on their device? Is it still illegal?


Me: BS, 31
Him: WH/SA, 31
Together 8 years
Married 7 years
DS1, DD2, DSontheway 10/10/13
Official DDAY: October 2012
'09 some things came out, he went to SA, stopped doing it and he went to town! Always been caught and never confessed.
Rec

Posts: 23 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Connecticut
ctdean2004
♀ New Member
Member # 39637
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a big snoop but have slowed down tremendously because it is just too damned exhausting and tiring. Having three babies at home keeps me less into doing it. But I will say that it has been a safety net but I also know that since SAWH was caught, that it isn't like I would really find anything. He rarely is even near his phone anymore. He doesn't do anything on it. Prior to d-day, that phone was glued to his hip.

When he relapsed, he went to a payphone and even if I saw that on GPS, I would have no way of knowing that he used a pay phone there.

So I think slowly I am just learning that I can't control him or the fact that he will act out. I can only control my reaction to it.

I think I hate just feeling like the fool or feeling like I am having a " feeling' when really he may NOT be doing anything. It is like constantly feeling as though he is doing something wrong and that can be bad too.

It would be nice to go ONE day without checking anything on him lol...


Me: BS, 31
Him: WH/SA, 31
Together 8 years
Married 7 years
DS1, DD2, DSontheway 10/10/13
Official DDAY: October 2012
'09 some things came out, he went to SA, stopped doing it and he went to town! Always been caught and never confessed.
Rec

Posts: 23 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Connecticut
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The computer I installed the key logger on is one we both use. I don't plan to watch it in real time but, if I ever have a hunch that something's up, it's there.

We are having a tough time as well. I believe H is really trying to learn new behaviors but, it's a challenge. After operating so many years with awful coping skills, it is so easy for him to slip back into old, comfortable habits. I know he is trying tho and I feel almost guilty that I'm still on such a high state of alert.

For the most part of our lives together, H has been the one to initiate sex. He always seemed eager to be with me and I always felt that he sincerely "wanted" me. Of course now I have to reconcile what I believed to be true then and, what I know now. It seems now that H has convinced himself that sex is bad. ALL sex. He says he is intimidated by me. He says he feels like I have all the power and needs me to help him thru those times. The problem is that I don't feel like I'm in any position to help. I'm struggling too. This whole thing has struck me at the heart of my insecurities. My 57 year old body that shows the marks of bearing and nursing four children. A stark contrast to the 20 something's he chose to act out with. My mind would have me believe that sex with me is probably a big let down compared to the encounters he had following days of grooming and anticipation. I wonder if he is making love to me and pretending that I am one of them. He denies any of this but, do I really expect him to be honest about something that he knows would only drive a deeper wedge between us? We have had some wonderful sex but, more times than not, there are issues. ED is a huge trigger and seems to happen more times than I care to mention.

He says he is working on this in IC and I do believe he wants to be able to get past this. We are talking and expressing feelings and emotions more than we ever have. I know, I know....time. But, for today, it's just one more thing that I've been robbed of.


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 490 | Registered: Apr 2013
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