I will give you the cole’s notes of my story. (more details on my profile) Then I have a question.
I’ve been with my boyfriend for almost 20 years. We have a DD who is almost 10 now.
I found out about the affair November 13 2012. It had been going on for 2.5 years. So we are coming up on a year now. The first month was raw. The following months, until April were that special hell of false reconciliation. WS and his AP were still in contact, and he was beginning to start another one. So we decided to temporarily separate. June - September.
We were killing each other. We needed space. I thought I might fool around and quickly thought better of it. I told him I was going to flirt with men and see what happens. He took up with his AP again.
So in July I told him not to come home in September. He clearly could not stay away from her so why bother? Then things started to change. His head was emerging from his ass. He ended it with her. He wanted to come home. He stopped lying. (I could tell because he would tell me things that did not benefit him).
He is in IC. We are in MC. I think he is moving back in November 1st. And we have had some good dates, and sleep overs. We’ve also had some really good talks. We are getting back on track!
Lately I’ve been feeling much stronger. I know I can be happy on my own. That was never a fear I entertained. I would like to reconcile. And I have my ducks in a row, and I know what I will do if infidelity shows up again.
So last week during our session I suggested to the counsellor that WS do a timeline. WS gives me more details (not the gross ones) about how a co worker becomes a lover. That was the home work for the week. I did one too. Pretty easy for me because I keep old calendars. WS said he did not think it would be helpful, but because I asked him to and that I thought it would help me, he would do it. If we discussed this in session, it would not spiral out of control.
Yesterday at our session, I got the first year. And I feel awful. I feel sick. I have more pictures in my head now. And I’m back to square one where I ask over and over again; Why? Why? How could you?
I was hoping the truth would take away the lies. I was hoping exposing the affair to the light of day would diminish it somehow. I didn’t. I’m really really upset and I don’t want to know anymore.
How on earth is a timeline helpful? Did I miss the small print: “Only use under doctor’s supervision. Not to be used if suffering from LTA. May cause drowsiness.”
I can stop it. I can’t be forced to hear the details. But in the long run, do I need to walk through the pain?
Thanks for reading.
How on earth is a timeline helpful? Did I miss the small print: “Only use under doctor’s supervision. Not to be used if suffering from LTA. May cause drowsiness.”
TT’ing meant I needed information. He was lying and I needed the truth. Not details, I didn’t want details. I didn’t want to know anything about the sex, things they talked about, or day to day detail of their conversations. I wanted dates, places. I wanted to know just how often they were together, where they had been, how many times they had little sojourns away. He had been minimising and lying and I was fed up with it. So I gave him an outline (taking out what I already knew) and told him to complete his own. And……………………….. he lied. Well, omitted some pretty big things he could not possibly have forgotten. And minimised.
So, in the end, after two years and meeting MOW towards the end of the first year and her BH towards the end of the second and got a load more information, I wrote my own document. 37 pages. It’s my Truth. I don’t care what he thinks of it. He’s read it and the only response I had was about 5 minutes of him picking a few things that put him in a bad light. So I shrugged and left it. He has his version (whitewashed and hidden away in the furthest corner of his head) and I have mine (Technicolor Truth).
It takes time to come to terms with what has happened. I found out that fWH’s oldest BF from school and uni had a 6yr LTA and that explained his move onto campus (he’s a lecturer). His BW waited around and when she was about to take a job that mean a house move hundreds of miles away, he got his expansive head out of his very tight arse and said he didn’t want her to go, he wanted to recommit, retake their vows and move back in. Now, she knew nothing about the OW and didn’t want to know anything. Not even her name. Nothing. So that is her way of coping with it.
Each to their own. But having opened that Pandora’s box, there’s no putting it back.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:30 PM, October 25th (Friday)]
How much one needs (wants) to know about their WS A is an individual choice. Everyone is different. I learned most of the gory details and yes, it is still difficult for me to deal with them. For me, this is still much better than not knowing and wondering. And my WW does not come near your WS desire to attempt and repair the damage.
UKGirl.. good to see you !
H&C Land Update!!!
I have been hanging out in the D/S forum and have not kept up to date in the LTA. I HOPE EVERYONE is doing VERY WELL.
I have been working (negotiating) with WW on the divorce decree. Trying very hard to keep her out of fantasy land as I have ageed to split everything 50/50, pay all of the kids expenses, AND pay her the state guideline on CS. And she still asks for more - I am getting much better at saying no without anger and explaining why. We are close to complete agreement!
WW signed a contract today on a home nearby. the kids will be very close.
stbxww closes the first week of December so her move should be complete by the end of the year and 2014 will be a new phase in my life.
I have joined a local D/S support group and am shocked at the awful things others deal with in their M. I am also using the meetup.com groups in my area to get out to events of interest.
It has been a tough four years; two during WW LTA and the two post DDay trying to R. The D also takes an emotional toll. Financially, I will be ok but drastically different from my current state. This will be another major adjustment along with the complete independence and the difficulties with my vision loss.
So, I expect a difficult transition the next 6-18 months. Shedding the negativity that exists in my life today should be a real plus though.
Best wishes to all. Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!
The truth is, he had an affair. There was a beginning, a middle and an end. There are lots of lies too. Like a bag of nails. I'm not sure if I'm being beaten with it or just lugging it around.
At the end of the day if he is remorsefulish, and isn't actively minimizing his actions, the dates and times are not going to contribute to my recovery.
Maybe it's just that I have to figure out what I need to know. Was it, "where the heck was I when this was going on?" or "What did you say to yourself to make it OK to fall in love with someone else?". Or even "Why should I trust you again?".
I don't think the time line is for me.
Welcome Stronger4it. Feel free to chime in whenever. The debates get interesting on occasion around here but everyone is always willing to help.
As for details and a timelines it really is up to the individual. My STBXW never gave me all the details and each time I found out something new it set me back right to DDay. the pain didn't last as long but it reset the clock so to speak.
If your WS is truly remorseful now and you need to know perhaps having the timeline written out is enough. You can always go look at it if you choose to do so but the pain is there already from what you have read.
I just hope your WH understands that even 1 year out, new revelations to you are the same as hearing them on DDay and set you back. I hope you find what you need to move forward whether you keep reading it or not.
as for your timeline hon...it really is an individual decision...i was one that needed to know everything, and never had it, for me it would have been him showing me who he really was, trusting me with his secrets, trusting me with all the information....and i needed to put the pieces of my life in some kind of logical order...there were often gaps in my marriage that knowing the full truth would have made my life make sense...
what i learned:
well he didn't trust me with his shit so i obviously cannot and do not trust him...its a 2 way street after infidelity
i also learned that i didn't need to heal, but i would if i wanted to heal the marriage..but that was what i needed...
there are others who feel just knowing that it took place and the timespan is enough
there are still others who want to know as much as possible, including what color underwear...i wanted as much of the stuff as he could remember but could care less what color underwear or even what type...no thats a lie....my ws had switched from tidie whities to colored ones and i needed to know if that was why...but i really could care less what underwear any of his ow wore...or even if they wore any
point of my longwindedness when i have no time...
only you could decide what you need to know to move forward and like someone said, once you ring that bell you can't unring it so make sure you really want to know...
In Yatzee, if you don’t like what you the first time, you can reroll. Working on R is a bit like this, a chance to change the M dynamics and get a better M going forward. The thing is, if you re-roll results in three 6’s and two 5’s you can decide to take it as a full house or use it as your 6’s, but no matter how much you wanted a Yatzee you don’t get one. At least not this round. Now 7yrsflushed is moving on to the next round and trying again, and iwam will be someday too, and we wish them well. But for some of us, our second roll is “good enough”.
Yes my BH and I have a long way to go, in very many aspects he is still at the very beginning of his journey. If my BH is willing to take his first steps I will gladly run back to him at the beginning of his path and take it with him every step of the way. I’m just getting lonely here by myself.
UK Girl, I do know that my BH needs to come to acceptance regardless of if he can forgive me or love me again. He has had a lifetime of experience doing it oppositely. He does have to be re-wired. I do know last year when we went to a few MC sessions every other week for about 6 weeks he gave up after the third session and told me I could/should keep going because he was doing fine just “forgetting” about it, that MC was bringing everything back up. He finds it easier to hide from it then face it, but he is SO head on with everything else in his life. I do hope he can reach happiness for himself, and if I could truly get my wish he would find happiness WITH me.
I got one from my husband and it was quite detailed in terms of where and when and what happened.
He and the MOW were co-workers and the majority of the time they got together at work conferences, conventions etc. and these were yearly events-easy to keep track of.
I needed all of the details.
I needed to know what kind of life he was leading while I I was living such a different life.
I also needed to know that my FWH was willing to be honest and transparent.And willing to do whatever it took to reconcile.
And finally....in my case I think it was very helpful for my FWH to see the timeline in black and white -right in front of him.
He was someone that compartmentalized the affair.
It was in a little box separate from the marriage.
And I think when you do that there is a tendency to minimize to yourself and be somewhat in denial as to how bad your actions are.
I remember a story of one BS finding old emails that the OW and her WS wrote to each other.
In one, the OW reminds the WS that they were coming up on the 3 yr anniversary of the start of the affair.
The WS replied that she was wrong. It had not been going on for that long.
The OW had to convince him that it had been that long!
In the end he said something like-that's not good.
This man had totally minimized the affair to himself.
So- I believe that writing out a timeline can be beneficial for the WS. It forces them to take a long , hard , look at themselves and their actions.
But, like everything, it is a personal decision.
Everyone is different.
It may not be something that you need to heal or recover.
You know yourself better than anyone does.
Did your BH ever see a doctor for his depression?
Would he ever consider trying meds for at least a short time?
He just sounds so depressed.
After d-day I cycled through all the stages-anger, grief, shock....but grief was something that I kept coming back to. I was grieving the loss of the marriage that I thought I had.
I understand some of what your BH is feeling.Going to IC and getting on meds helped me to recover from the trauma of the infidelity.
I know I've mentioned it many times but there is a book by Dr. Ortman- Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder and it describes the symptoms and reactions of some BS who suffer from PTSD symptoms.
I did. Ortman says BS with childhood trauma are especially traumatized by infidelity. It opens up all of those childhood wounds.
Reading this book was very helpful for me.
Perhaps it would help your BH?
It's written for BS -both for those that reconcile and those that divorce.
Ortman believes that either way the BS needs to deal with the trauma in order to heal.
BH "are you going to be supportive"
I just kept looking at him. He got a bit louder and repeated his statement with agitation, the kind of tone that was pretty much dictating to me that I had better say "yes" or it would be the wrong answer.
BH "ARE YOU GOING TO BE SUPPORTIVE!?!
So I say "If I was going to sign him up for ballet would you be supportive?"
BH "WHAT ARE YOU FUCKIN STUPID??"
ME "Mr. RSEB shut up"
BH: "WE ARE DONE TALKING I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR FUCKIN MOUTH"
I sat for a few seconds and said Mr. RSEB we were supposed to discuss this and you tell me I'm Fuckin stupid?"
BH "I SAID WE ARE DONE TALKING AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU FUCKIN MOUTH"
And I haven't said a word to him since. That was about 30 minutes ago. He went upstairs now.
Yeah so this is how he is "fighting for our M" and yes these are some of the PRE A issues I have an issue with...go figure. BH argument will be that these things don't happen ALL the time...but to me the point is that they DO still happen and that is what makes me withdraw and go figure believe that he doesn't love me.
Is it me? Can someone actually love you and speak to you that way?
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
Did your children hear him speak to you in such a disrespectful manner?
That does not sound like a healthy environment.
RSEB, just curious, when your H first asked you the question, did you consider responding to his question with "I don't know, I'll have to think about it" instead of staring at him? Were u being passive aggressive?
At the time, the way he phrased the question he said it with a tone that led me to feel that the only answer he was willing to accept was "yes". That is how I felt at the time, so I was trying to think for a few seconds, which is when he asked again.
Yes for me to have said "let me think about it" would have been a MUCH better reply. I do believe he would not have gotten SO angry. I cannot swear to it, since your instance did not play out obviously, but I do believe he still wouldn't have been thrilled with that answer either.
He did wind up coming back to our room last night. He asked me if it was okay for him to sleep there, I said yes. He then hugged me as asked me to forget everything he said last night. He said he says some stupid things and he DID tear at me quite a bit which led to my tears. So we went to sleep.
I did not think I was being passive aggressive. I did want to discuss it, eventhough I know our DS, he is VERY shy and he would never want to join a wrestling team. Sure my BH can ask him, but I know my sons response will be no. Our DS does play soccer, basketball and baseball. I am not anti sports as my BH would make it sound. I do realize that sports are VERY important to my BH, that is how he got through his childhood and he feels sports made him who he is today. But getting back to my son, he won't want to join, and I don't see why we should both approach him as his parents as he REALLY should do it. I have seen this play out before. My BH wants my son to do Karate, my son says no. I also chime in telling our son he should try it. He still says no, and then my BH gets aggravated/insulted that our DS does not want to do it.
My BH takes almost everything personally. He feels the kids respond and listen to me differently then they do to him. Like yesterday when my BH was taking my DS to the birthday party. Right before they were going my DS asked me if I was going. I said no, Daddy is going to take you. He whined and said "Mommy I want you to take me". My BH heard him from the kitchen so BH said "what I'm not good enough" and my son just shrugged his shoulders. I told my DS that he is hurting Daddy's feelings and it wasn't nice. But that was yet another example of how my BH feels left out...and of course that falls on my shoulders too.
We have A LOT of work to do
Sister’s post is most powerful..
RSEB, does it really matter if he loves you or not? The question is are you willing to be treated like that? I hope not. You don't deserve it. No one does.
I think your response was appropriate.. Except to the language in the last part. You cannot get rattled.
Me, “Look H, You are not going to treat me with that kind of language. When you calm down and can talk to me in a way a loving M is supposed to work out solution differences, Then come to me. I am going to read my book, when you are ready, you just let me know.”
In that way.. you do what YOU can do.. and that is how you train him how to behave.
IMO.. As I guessed, your man is not mature. His past, no doubt has been far from healthy. He has been through far more than the average man. It may be the reason but it cannot be an excuse.
His behavior is manipulative. And believe me, I know how to manipulate. In my job, I manipulate.
Sister’s post are very attractive to me. She is most quality in an area. “Be” like her is my suggestion. She does not fear and has courage. She makes an ideal partner.. She does not take being treated poorly. We all are not perfect. We get out of line sometimes. A good partner will put you back on the right path. Njgal has that too. Just because they have that, does not mean change happens quickly. It does take time. People learn with repetition.
Mc’s suggestion is one where you can sit back and think about how to respond. Not a bad thing to do at all. I know MC is of super high intellect on the norm chart. Be like him.. Methodical. Professor ATS is kinda like that too.. lol..
Obviously your H finds you very attractive by the way he ended the night. You can strengthen your attractiveness by behaving a bit differently. It is hard because when dealing with a man like your H, he leads you down that path of anger, frustration, etc..
Me, “DD, do you want to wrestle?”
Me, “As long as you want to do this for YOU.. Will it be fun for you? It is going to scare the heck out of me.”
BH said "what I'm not good enough"
If I was in your shoes right now.. I might approach my W and say…
“Honey, I want and need us only use word that are good, positive, so we might get to a far better M. I want us both to remove all cuss words from our when we talk to each other and also others.”
“Do you want the same?”
IF he says NO.. then you have an answer.. This man does not want to behave quality. His choice. You must consider making someone like this.. no longer part of your life.
IF he says yes.. you both work toward eliminating those types of words. Life will be a bit more pleasant. Progress made.
Of course.. that will be just one of many things….
Personally, I don’t think I’d be able to put up with that kind of verbal aggression. I think he needs to learn other ways to vent his held-in emotional stress. And to see things from someone else’s point. The world does not revolve around him and the more he tries to make it so, the less he is going to succeed and the angrier he is going to get. He is in all kinds of bad cycles.
I'm truly shocked.
eta - Come back in to give you a hug (((((RSEB)))))
[This message edited by UKgirl at 7:24 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]
I’ve been with my boyfriend for almost 20 years.
Some people who cannot commit think and behave.. I can cheat because the promise is not “a vow”. Therefore I can cheat… A M commitment does take it to a new level.
Me? I would not let him move back.. I might start thinking if someone is not able to commit in an official vow.. I don’t want that. He must want to commit..
And he may tell you he will commit without an official.. but what does that really mean?
Why does the gay community want M so bad? Think about it.. sure it is for fairness in government benefits... but it is far more about the other part.. the official commitment part.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:34 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]