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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

badmedicine:

you posted that you feel schizo for basically not knowing what you want to do.....well welcome to the club.....most of us felt that from the getgo. and i don't just mean here on the lta forum but pretty much across the boards

when we first learn of the deception,most of us are completely caught off guard, had no clue, or the clues were vague....and we do not react in the way we prob always believed we would react when finding out something like this, and part of that stems from believing that this would not happen to you....or you already believed it might happen but you would be prepared to deal with it....

then it happens and shock is what most if not all of us feel. most of us experience a form of ptsd....after all its a personal 9/11......and when it does happen, most of us do not react the way we thought we would, especially when you have so much invested within the relationship, especially if you have kids or are married forever and a day...and even those who are not married long...you still feel invested in it

some of the shock wears off and now you start to think, not rationally because the ability to rationalize seems to be paralyzed....but you do start thinking and your thoughts are everywhere all at the same time

and now you don't know what you want to do, you know what you want "him/her" to do...to a point though because you still want him/her to come up with the miracle cure to make it all better (hence my user name )....but (s)he doesn't..there is no miracle, and in your case as was mine...the effort is there but its not "all" in.....its not where you "feel" like its right, you want it to "feel" right....but it doesn't

your last post gave me deja vu....my ws was alot like and is alot like yours....only we were 4 months shy of a 20 year anniversary and have 3 kids.....my ws was never faithful to me, my ws never did "all" of the work, my ws "talked" and still "talks" alot of shit about wanting the marriage....but for me thats all it was, and thats all it ended up being...lots of "talk" without "all" the action that "I REQUIRED" with the newfound knowledge of what he had done for all those years...not to mention for me anyways...he was never a good husband to boot...so for me the choice and decision to seek divorce was a given....

was it an easy choice....HELL NO.....my ws though made it easier because with each choice he made from that point forward just reaffirmed my path, and lets just say he reaffirmed my path almost daily...not in a big way though...he just never stopped lying.....even the small inconsequential stuff...he still lied

i also learned what passive-agressive meant and my ws was so typical of it....when i first heard the term i did not understand it because all i ever saw was agressiveness...never passiveness.......i later learned that this was not close to the definition...

passive agressive people in a nutshell...will say what you want to hear to shut you up and then do what they want to do anyways!!!

so in a very very long winded way......you are not schizo.....you are merely trying to make a decision...just make choices that you could live with until you do!!! the path of least regret.....

and there is nothing wrong with not knowing what you want to do...in fact by the standards here at si,most of us don't know what we want.....just don't let it take you longer then necessary....give yourself time.....but set a limit on it...and if he doesn't step up to the bar by then...then move forward, if he does then move forward.....basically you are putting the ball in his court and lets see if he runs with it....and if he does and YOU STILL DONT FEEL RIGHT....then ITS NOT RIGHT!!!!!

if he does take the ball and runs with it and you feel good about the path...then follow your gut....learn to trust your gut...and if your gut says it still feels like a simmer, then it prob is just a simmer and he may not be capable of giving you or anybody more then that


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
danni
♀ Member
Member # 30257
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister Milkshake I tried to message you your box is full If you are out there? could you PM me?

Thank you
Danni


Danni 47 BS
him WS 47
Married 28+
3 children 21,22,26
1st D-day I was 8mths preg with last child
2nd D-day 4/13/2010
2OW same time frame

R'ing ?? yes, no, maybe, I dont know

This is not the end, this is not the beginning
linkin park


Posts: 320 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: massachusetts
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you want?
What kind of marriage do you want?
Do you believe that you deserve better?

You are still very very young. You have your whole life ahead of you and so many opportunities to meet new people.

Do you want to wait for someone who is not 100% 'in' ?


Hi badmedicine. I agree with what Njgal wrote and IWAM. I did end up filing for D in my situation. My stbxww had a 3 yr lta and prior to that had an A less than 1 yr after we were married. I struggled for a long time trying to make sense of what my life had become. Things didn't start to work out until I took my WW out of the picture. By that I don't mean file because I didn't file right away. I decided to take some time and figure out exactly what I wanted out of life. After I did that I sat my WW down stated my boundaries and what I needed clearly then sat back and watched her. When it became obvious that she had no intention of working on herself I decided to file. That journey took almost 2 years for me.

My WW wasn't very remorseful but others do have remorseful WS's. Even if your WH is remorseful you still have some soul searching of your own to do to heal. If you want to R, the hope is that while you are doing the work on you, your WS is doing the work on themselves as well. If you aren't sure about R then by figuring out what is important to you at some point you will KNOW when it's time to walk away and file. For me it took detaching completely from my WW before I could finally see who had been standing in front of me the entire time. Will my stbxw ever get it, maybe, but I won't be around to see it. I deserve to be happy now, not 4 or 5 years from now. I deserve to be with someone that values my time and energy as much as I value theirs. I am not even dating and I am thrilled to just be by myself again. After putting up with an unremorseful WS for years I even find joy in the fact that any confusion, stress, craziness that's going on in my life is a direct result of my actions and my actions alone. No one else caused it, it was just me, and I can own and work through my issues at my own pace.

So don't feel bad about feeling out of control or "schizo" as you put it. It's normal but you counteract that feeling by focusing on yourself. You put everything else "on the shelf" for a while and focus on you.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs- Great advice!
And so glad to hear that you are doing well.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
badmedicine
♀ Member
Member # 41692
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, 7years, IWAM, and NJGal.

I have already filed for divorce. I felt confident at the time but of course he seemed to snap out of it after he got served. Now, I am not dumb enough to fall for a little effort to save face. But this seems like more than that....going to IC, starting to understand projecting all his life stress onto me/our relationship, being depressed, not knowing how to handle change, thinking he could end his A without affecting me, etc. It's just more than the "I want to work things out" he gave me before and he is taking full responsibility for the A and what it has done to me. I agree, I don't want to wait 4-5 years to be happy, and I don't want to have another dday. What I'm struggling with is how to try to R or even think about R since I've already filed for D. I'm scared to pause the D because if I do then he gets the power back. I don't trust him with the power yet. Maybe that's the answer....keep it for myself and keep moving forward. I haven't stopped anything but I think about it constantly. I don't feel at peace with this decision. I think it's mostly because I didn't want this at all (no one did) but felt like my choices were sit around and be really unhappy or do something about it. With those 2 choices only I picked D and it is right. Now he is making me think that a 3rd choice (R) is possible and that's the trouble.

Thanks for listening about this. My IC says it's time to move on and is convinced he has every personality disorder known to man. My friends who know for the most part heard "A" and were done with this M as a viable option so no help there. Hard stuff.


"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chatting with FWW last night I got an especially clear insight into her thoughts.

We spend a lot of time trying to understand why our WSs did what they did, but I saw again last night how there are significant differences in how she and I view and process our lives and actions.

A few examples:
The all or nothing thinking; she was cleaning up cookware from making soup and commented that she had been in the kitchen since 8:30 that morning. I called her on that because I knew she had been out with a friend for a few hours that afternoon visiting some shops and having lunch, and was doing yard work when I got home. She corrected and said she meant in and out of the kitchen all day. Frustrated with cleaning pots and pans (the mess she makes cooking is another story), she forgot the entire day except the negative part.

She expressed how she wished that she could find a “real” job where she was important so she could be happy again.

In her current job, after a short period of time she was moved to manage a section. No more money, but still a “promotion”. In her first job ever she was promoted after a short while also. She spoke last night of how this was the norm for her. She would work somewhere awhile and then be promoted. We have been M’d for 20 years. In this time she has had about 10 jobs. I only know of maybe one other with a promotion.

Speaking of a current coworker, she said that she did not particularly like him, or working with him. Then he said that he thought that she was smarter than she gave herself credit for, and now she likes him and likes working with him. This classic wayward thinking raised the hairs on my neck. I am not worried, but admit I will be more alert after hearing that.

There were other examples last night; it was really kind of sad. With this sort of perception and processing, trying to understand her, and perhaps any wayward, requires more than empathy. I cannot think how I would feel in such a situation, because how I perceive life is so very different. What would be "normal" perception and processing for me is not the case for her. I do not mean different people seeing the same thing from different perspectives. I mean seeing the same thing, and then perceiving it differently. I am more the Viktor Frankl approach where how I feel is based more in who I am than in what I am (doing). Sure, I can be frustrated with stupid work assignments, but I am still happy and basically see myself as a valuable and good person. FWW wants to be important in her work or the service that she does to others so that she will be deemed as valuable. Inside, she is still the little girl her alcoholic mother devalued and ridiculed 50 years ago.

I do not know if this provides help or insight for anyone else, but it was good for me to type it out.

I guess one last thing. She has said a couple of times how she enjoys my need of her assistance after my accident. Basing her value on what she can do for a person and how much they rely on her, she has felt important in my life. She worries about the time when I am healed and will “not need her anymore.”

-Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

I understand everything you said.

I when you said she forgot the entire day except the negative part. That sort of thing happens often at the Dip house. Yes, I know it is not really funny but sometimes I can not help myself.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

holy crap, I flushed dip out of the brush. Hi old dipstick!


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Dip...I have missed you.....it good to "see" you...thanks ats for goin fishin today...

ats: for many of us our ws's have very warped perceptions....my ws has always had a very warped perception...it used to blow my mind....and honestly it still does every now and then.....the way the truth is twisted to suit their personal needs, their personal ego, their personal anything....

the way they "see".....their perceptions equal their realities....which unfortunately for the rest of us means we need to "deal" with and "live" with....twisted perceptions....and we cannot change them..

we cannot change them.....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats.

I suppose it is better to be flushed out than to be flushed down.

miracle.

Hi.

The problem about dealing with all these negative thoughts and misperceptions is that they think we are the ones who have things all twisted. Being paranoid and having negative thoughts is as natural to my W as breathing. She can not understand why everyone else does not see life as she does. The ironic thing about all this is the fact that she would have never been able to pull of all her A bullshit had I been able to think like her. I would have figured out what was going on very early in the game. Suspicion and distrust was just not something that I had in me. I still don't have much of that. I guess I am a slow learner.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ooops triple post!

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 4:39 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Double post

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 1:41 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to all the newbies. I've been away for over a week and need time to catch up.

Badmedicine: the feeling you are describing about feeling schizo, is very common. We are still trying to adjust to a new reality. We so desperately want to keep what we knew as the status quo, but are now faced with disconcerting and heartbreaking facts that throw what we thought we knew into a turmoil.

Our hearts are constantly arguing with our heads and our guts and the one who we trusted the most have lied and betrayed us. We don't know who to trust and we are even in doubt of our own feelings and thoughts. We need to trust our gut, and not just knee jerk reactions. As Miracle has often advised: think of the future, how things would be 5 years from now.

Ats: It's good for you to share your thoughts. It helps you and all of us :) A lot of what you describe of Mrs. Ats is BPD thinking and that is very difficult to live with. It's very hard because we do love the person when they are acting normal or semi-normal, but the BPD rears its head at unexpected times and often throws us off.

7yrs: I'm happy to hear that you and your kids are doing better. We get so used to the chaos, that it feels good to be at peace after so long.

Tryn: I like your advice about confronting without anger and being calm and then walking away and watch and not engage. Engaging just is a waste of time especially when the WS starts denial, gaslighting and blameshifting. Perhaps that is why so many start to rugsweep because those are the reactions we get and nothing is accomplished and we often feel beat up and the ones who are at fault. We feel it's not worth the battle.

I was sick when we went away, still recovering from the concussion and a fever from an abcess. Had antibiotics and was able to get the abcess drained. The only positive thing about it was that I was able to watch NPD actions and not react. All of his actions verified my decision. I'm finally seeing him in his true light. He is such a controlling, petulant child who can be mean and cruel when he doesn't get his own way. Acts nice and happy when he does and often uses his charm to get things he wants or to look good.

DS 38 was texting me like crazy wanting me to leave NPD NOW or I would lose him and DS 34. I know I waited too long, probably had close to a nervous breakdown and tried to live in a fantasy land, not excuses but facts. Here I am again trying to decide between a post nup which is the path of least resistance and a separation agreement. <sigh> I'm scared of the fight but I can't allow fear to guide me anymore.

Hi dip! Good to see you. We miss u

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 4:41 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest- please listen to your boys.
Don't choose the NPD over them. Your sons love and want the best for you. They also know NPD and can advise you better than we can here on LTA or SI because we do not know all of the details.
Your sons sound like fine young men. They are probably extremely frustrated because they are reaching out to you with help and advice.
Why are you hesitating?
From what I understand a post nup does not hold up in court. It's purely a voluntary thing and my guess is that the NPD will not do anything voluntarily.
And isn't now the time to strike while the iron is hot? Since he's here in the USA right now and you can serve him with papers? After he's out of the country he will be next to impossible to find.

And yes... he will be angry...what else is new? he will not be getting his way.
But, its not about him -its about what's best for you and all of your sons.
Make 2014 the year of new beginnings for you.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip:

The problem about dealing with all these negative thoughts and misperceptions is that they think we are the ones who have things all twisted

OMG.....BINGO!!!!

pfm and his family were so typical with this concept...to the point that at times i would question my sanity!!! Thankfully those times were not too often...mainly because i knew they were the insane ones!!!


honest: most important.....no more waitin.....move forward!!! go for your post nup.....its a beginning...then if he balks go for the separation agreement....and then finally if still balks.....go for the divorce....we know you are waaaay past due....so go for plan a, then b and finally plan c which is the ultimate goal!!!

just be ready for all 3 plans at the same time....and njgal is right...he will be angry no matter what you do...he will up the ante....why...because he can and he wants what he wants and could care less about what ANYONE ELSE WANTS!!!!

and i agree with njgal...do not put it off another day!! don't let that man leave...because he will be back and will come back to YOUR home...where he should not be welcome anymore...

i think you should serve him the papers as a going home gift!!! so you won't have to deal with him for too long once he finally knows where you stand...and STAND TALL DEAR HEART...STAND TALL....its about time!!!!

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short on time so I have to keep it short & sweet:

Ats: I agree completely!

Dip: Hi!!!

Honest: There is almost no difference in your case between a post-nup and a separation agreement other than what you think NPD might be more likely to sign. Both are valid contracts - the terms of which must be AGREED to by BOTH parties. The process in getting to either agreement is the same. The difference is that in a post nup the parties aren't separated and are supposed to be trying to reconcile while protecting their asses. In a separation agreement - not so much.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood: That is why I'm leaning toward a post nup. A few years ago we signed papers just between the two of us that agreed on a lot of things like what a post nup would be. I asked if I could "legalize" it and he said of course. Unfortunately, many lawyers that I saw said that the papers couldn't be "legalized" the way the stood, so I thought a post nup would be the path of least resistance right now.

Yes, NJgal, a post nup would "allow" NPD back in the house, but I would have those papers signed and then could go ahead with a D if need be. A separation agreement would be a tough fight with him.


Posts: 1900 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle.

Bingo to you too! I am crazy enough without some really crazy person or persons trying to make me think I am a total nut job. I have to remind myself that I am only a semi-nut job. I have been doing some grilling out when it has been single digit temp and below zero wind chill. You have to be semi-nuts to do that sort of thing.

Honest.

Keep on moving forward with your plans. Remember no matter which way you approach this, it will not be easy. NPD is not going to like what ever you do that does not have HIS best interest in mind. The problem there is that you have to go with what is best for you, not him. It sure looks like he is always going to be looking for another woman. He thinks it is his right.

Allgood

Hi to you too! That is good advice you gave to Honest. I just love it when you start talking all legal.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone, been a while.

My news is twofold: I am on to my next political campaign this time for higher office. Election this fall. Donations welcome.

Secondly, I watched Silver Linings Playbook at the end of December and it triggered me with the equivalent of a nuclear warhead. Whatever happened there 'turned the lake over' so to speak and I find myself dealing with shit that I thought I had dealt with a year ago. Mind movies, replaying things in my head, and my now questioning my WWs work level, has put me into a weird kind of depression when I am at home. Whack a mole seems it be.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey MC_Jack, good luck on the campaign. Don't go punching any babies! Sorry I can't get that image of Will Farrell out of my head now.

Whatever happened there 'turned the lake over' so to speak and I find myself dealing with shit that I thought I had dealt with a year ago. Mind movies, replaying things in my head, and my now questioning my WWs work level, has put me into a weird kind of depression when I am at home.
Question for you, did you have all of these emotions before with a similar intensity? I ask because I "logic'd" my way through emotions after Dday. Pretty much locked some of them away (mostly anger and rage) and I didn't even realize it. I tried to rationalize my way to healing. Shit didn't explode for me until I realized the M was truly done and I was getting divorced. That was the trigger for me and I had to face the emotions that I had suppressed for so long.

That may not apply to you at all but just wanted to say something similar happened to me but the specific trigger was STBX moving out because it was real then. Once that realization hit I was a big ball of rage for a few months. I guess my point is I had some internal unfinished business to deal with and you may as well.

Also it never hurts to evaluate how your WW is doing from your point of view. It could be you triggered beause you think something isn't quite right but just keep watching her actions and calling her out when you don't like what you see. It's also possible it was just a trigger that sent you on a dip on the coaster. If you have been having a relatively good few weeks or months the dips suck a little more because we sometimes put them out of our heads when we are on a positive roll. I wish you the best and good luck on the election.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:53 AM, January 27th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
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