Then he says a real gem that all men cheat and the ones who don't are naive or too innocent.
Sorry to vent about your WH honest but statements like the one he made make life harder for REAL men and women like myself and others that don't cheat. Make no mistake your WH is nota man. He is a boy. He is no different than a child that can't decide on which piece of candy he wants. REAL MEN and WOMEN aren't perfect by any means but we, they, you at least understand simple things like fidelity and vows.
I tried to suggest cancelling this trip several times over the past few months, but everyone wants to go.
I hope you didn't take offense at my vent but you don't have to waver anymore about the post-nup or the seperation agreement. Seriously don't go on the trip and use that time to move forward with it. Believe me it gets better the sooner you move towards getting the unremorseful craziness out of your life. You can do this!
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 4:14 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]
I really think he thinks women are like pets. He loves cats, but has never been "loyal" to one. He'll take care of it, take it the vet if need be, is never cruel to animals, but he has no problem if he has to get rid of one for whatever reason (or if one passed away)he may feel bad for a while, may miss it for a bit, but just gets another one. No real attachment.
With the trip, the reason I said yes to it way back in September because we are going to do an activity that I don't think I will be able to do or afford to do in the future. Actually, this activity is something the DS's and I are going to do, NPD is not joining us. The other reason I'm hesitant about staying home is that it is poking the NPD bear and I'm not fully ready for the consequences of that.
This time, however, I am really, really done. NO MORE TALK on my part. No more putting my head in the sand. I'm just trying to decide which course of action is the wisest in light that I'm not dealing with a normal person. <sigh>
I don't think he'll ever be old and alone. He has his OC's and will always get some woman to cater to his needs. He said he'll never D OW, so he'll have her too and OW#2 in the works. He'll be as happy as a NPD can be, if they are ever really happy.
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 5:29 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]
honest: no dear heart...no more d-days....just like me finding out about pfm's shenanagins....these are not d-days but yet more affirmations of the path we must take....does it hurt...of course it does...but there really is no new discovery....all things we have suspected, all things we do not put past them....not another d-day.....just more affirmations.....i like that perspective of affirmations....it helps with the dealing...it helps with the peace of mind making the decisions you and i have made....i know you decided long ago your path...i believe you have been praying for a miracle that will alter it....wow, i just noted that is so close to pfm;s user name here...
anyways honest.....take your trip if your must, i know you are not changing your mind....so take your trip and start out with the post nup since that is what you really have wanted....if he doesn't agree, go for the separation agreement...and then finally if doesn't agree...just file....you have nothing more to lose.....and just take it in order...and who knows maybe your form of a miracle wil be the post nup...
as far as engaging in serious convo....youre right...stop wasting your time...you will never hear the words you long for and even if you did...would you really believe them....is there ANYTHING he could say that would actually make any difference....anything that you would actually believe!!!!
miracle update: wasnt plannin on this...but at this moment the screaming that is occurring in my house is deafening...pfm and manchild are at it again....and i have to say this one is all on manchild....god help me...i need patience, i need to stay out of it, i need to stay quiet, i need a vacation...
I don't think he'll ever be old and alone. He has his OC's and will always get some woman to cater to his needs.
You said it, a NPD will never be truly happy.
Honest: My X will say things that will make me stop & think too - think that maybe he has changed a bit, could change the way I need him to, etc. I agree with Miracle - these are not new DDays to us unless we are in R - they are more like affirmations. As you know, I recently had an experience similar to yours & Miracle's, having found X is still in regular contact with OW despite making all sorts of promises & pleas to reconcile. While not without pain, they are not DDays, they are affirmations that these people are hopeless. And we should walk away.
It is also important, I think, for you to remember that your WS tries to charm you, not by promising to be something different, but by trying to charm you so that you accept the status quo - which is that he is living with another woman. Don't let him dress it up and pretend it is anything else. It does not matter the reason why - he is trying to get you to accept this.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:54 AM, January 10th (Friday)]
I'm so sorry, Allgood that you've had to go through this again. I really don't get it, I really don't. Why do they have to say they want you, want the M and then still see the OW, or go looking for new OW's? Sick, sick, sick.
Another update, DS15 told me last night that at the NYE's party at the cousin's house, one cousin makes a comment to NPD that he should go overseas so he could have 3 also. DS told me that he got upset and left the room. I said "he said this while you were in the room?" and DS said he thinks this cousin didn't realize he was there.
I was sooooo livid I was about to burst. NPD wasn't home at the time. I was simmering and trying to decide if I should confront, but a kind, good friend helped me calm down. I knew if did confront, all I would get was more gaslighting, blameshifting, etc. It would just turn into a fight that would go no where except to get me even more upset. I'm still seething.
Ats, I hope you are feeling better and you have company. There was black ice all over my area today and I fell and hit my head. Spent the afternoon in the ER, got a CAT scan and I have a concussion. I'm dizzy, lightheaded, headache, etc. The ER was packed with people who fell, with concussions, broken bones, car accidents, etc.
NPD brought me to the ER, but I knew he had an appointment, so I told him to call DS18 and go to his appointment, which he did. I didn't want NPD there. Actions speak louder than words. Still hurts though.
Trying not to go on emotion mind. I want to kick him to the curb and demand a D immediately, but I have to practical. Just venting here so I don't go crazy. Still wavering about confronting.....
Glad you are okay as well Honest!
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:42 PM, January 10th (Friday)]
hope both of you feel better soon.....
manchild fell on his ass today too....somehow though i think its deserved.....not that he gets hurt, but that he lands on his ass....sometimes im such a bad bad mom...
ats..glad mrs ats did right by you....
honest...dear heart....i can understand about you wavering from confronting...but that need to be the ONLY wavering you do.....once your trip is over....take action....and yes actions speak louder then words....
and of course it still hurts....allgood and i can attest to that...just keep moving forward....and remember all he does are affirmations....and it sucks big time monkey guts....
its almost like overkill with some of our ws's and their affirmations.....i think we need to turn into our superhero alter egos and kick some ass..... who had posted our superhero alters way back when...would love to see them again...
and honest; re: npd being alone...he already is.....because he has not and has never opened his heart fully to any one person....his heart is closed...much like the grinch....until he can learn to love with all his heart he will never be able to recieve it, even when its freely given to him...think about it....on this both npd and pfm are alot alike....even though they were technically always with someone or several someones...they never had that intimate connection with one person....you and i had it....even though it was one sided...we didn't know that...but i believe that unless you can open your heart to another then your heart will forever be a shriveled up prune...the heart needs to be full...it needs to give in order to receive...which is why we were faithful and loving individuals....we gave as much as we thought or believed we were receiving...
not sure if i am makin sense...i see it clearly in my head...not sure if its comin out in black and white as clearly...may have to ponder a bit to see if i could come up with a better way to "splain"..
Miracle - I remember the superheroes. That was hilarious.
As for what you should do.... well, anything can be undone-including divorces. Or..they can be put on hold.
But, the question is- who is your WH?And why did he behave the way he did?
That is something that he needs to explore in depth with a therapist before you or he can make any decisions.
For whatever reason he was not ready to make a full commitment to you and so he continued the affair.
Is it a fear of intimacy? extreme selfishness? a lack of maturity?
Until he gets to the root of his issues he may not be the best partner for anyone.
It sounds like he has begun to try to delve into his issues.
Are you in IC? I saw a therapist for 4 yrs. It was crucial for me in terms of helping me deal with the trauma of the LTA.
My FWH also went to IC and then we both went to MC.
IC was key for both me and my FWH.
As for who he is...it's more like who has be become? I feel like some of these personality traits have always been there when I look back but it seems like during the time of the A all his bad traits flourished and all his good traits were squelched. And, selfish, immature, fear of commitment/decisions, fear of intimacy, all of the above and then some.
I filed for divorce and I haven't changed that. I wish things were different, but they just don't seem to be. God, how I wish things were different. How do I stop the hurt? Well, what I mean is, how do I recover from whatever allowed me to continue to accept less than acceptable? I made excuses, exceptions, and had a low level of betrayal/broken promises my entire marriage. And yet here I am saying that part of me wants to STAY? WTF. So he is fucked up and somehow so am I?
And yet here I am saying that part of me wants to STAY? WTF. So he is fucked up and somehow so am I?
I can relate to this sentiment.
I put up with too much crap pre-DDay, and post-DDay - well, it's mind boggling how long it took me to pull the plug on my X.
And yet, here I am 2+ years following our separation and I'm still upset to learn he was in contact with OW throughout our R efforts and ending just around New Year's.
He's stopped the begging to R and while a huge relief, it's also somewhat upsetting or disappointing to me.
I, too, wish my heart could be a bit more logical.
Takes time, I suppose.
Best of wishes to you and the rest of us.
To me, integrity is doing the right thing even if no one is looking.
Character is having upstanding moral qualities all the time, even in situations where honorable decisions might be difficult.
The timeline of our marriage is such:
Years 1 to 25--total fidelity
Within that time of year 1 through 25, we had years 8 to 25 with mutual celibacy because of his "issues" with PE and ED and his refusal to address the problems further. I didn't marry him for his penis, but for the person I believed him to be. I knew there were more things important than his having a small penis, or not quite being able to have "good sex."
Years 26 to 33--the affair, which ended last Feb, with TT last September.
Year 33 of marriage--Since TT in Sept, he's been going to IC, weekly MC, reading books, and he's trying to be more attentive, but he is not connecting the dots, nor has he really internalized remorse, although he does have regret (mostly for how the A and its consequences affected him). He is very simple and a very concrete thinker.
I know I will never trust him again because he lied to me, looking me straight in the face, for 7 years... but he was a good man for the first 25 years of our marriage.
Then he became someone else who started an A and continued with that heinous A, and now it's like he's a replicant or a pod person, wearing the skin of the man I married.
I guess it's a moot point about character and integrity, because along with that comes trust, and I won't trust him ever again.
I know I'm coming from an emotional base, and thought I'd post here to see if someone out farther than I am has a more objective take on things. Thanks for any input!