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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

has a GF who has.. as he describes it.. anxiety.

^^^Anxiety is a very underrated malady and relationship killer....where nothing is 'good enough'... or there is 'so much' to do that one resents when the partner chooses to relax and enjoy life. It drives negative filtering (cognitive distortion) in which the one black drop of ink in proportion to 5 gallons of clear water in manifested in one's mind as a bucket of dirty water. It also leads to emotional reality (another cognitive distortion) where because I feel bad/dissatisfied then those things around me are no good. Where does an affair come in? It provides a balm or ointment calming the anxiety: "everything will be ok because OM/OW will be calling tomorrow". Plus the so-perceived 'peace' in the A absent real life issues provides a similar balming effect. Hey NOW I KNOW.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:19 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RSEB
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Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack

Anxiety is a very underrated malady and relationship killer. Where nothing is 'good enough' or there is 'so much' to do that one resent when other choose to relax and enjoy life. It drives negative filtering (cognitive distortion) in which the one black drop of ink in proportion to a5 gallons of clear water in manifested in one's mind as a bucket of dirty water. It also leads to emotional reality (another cognitive distortion) where because I feel bad/dissatisfied then those things around me are no good. Where does an affair come in? It provides a balm or ointment calming the anxiety: "everything will be ok because OM/OW will be calling tomorrow". Plus the so-perceived 'peace' in the A absent real life issues provides a similar balming effect. Hey NOW I KNOW.

This is COMPLETELY correct!!!..and it explains my and my BH's relationship quite well. My Bh is a TRIPLE A personality, a perfectionist, always working, if not he is "accomplishing/building/fixing" something in the house. And I quite often have felt that I cannot sit/relax when he is around...which also led in some parts, as well as other reasons to be "not good enough"...WOW...AH HA moment for me....thanks for the info MC :-)


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The feeling of not good enough is a two-way street. The anxiety person feels that way sort of and gives off a vibe that nothing is good enough.

If you have FOO issues you can interpret that vibe as 'not being good enough'....and withdraw...

But the core feeling is within the anxious person...who seeks a solution in OW/OM if anxiety is the issue for that person.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:44 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack: I also like your post very much. It is very profound. Those who suffer from anxiety often find that few understand it and how painful it can be, especially when it can manifest itself into anxiety attacks and worse, full scale panic attacks. Few people go for the help they really need and either go into deep depression or try to escape from it via substance abuse, gambling, many forms of codependency, and infidelity.

Life: Thank you for sharing your story. It brought me to tears. I am so happy that you were able to move forward.

RSEB: I'm glad that your BH read the posts you are sharing and was able to open up a bit to you. That trust to open, is a small beginning. I do believe he may need IC because he sounds depressed. It may help him in his healing.

UKgirl: I am so sorry about your mother and the news about your FIL. {{{{{UKgirl}}}} I hope you can still go forward and visit your sons in NZ. It will be very good for you to see them. You have often said many times that you are in a status of not divorcing because you get along with your WH and "you like him well enough". Has that changed for you? Is it not enough? Please keep posting, we care about you.

Tryn: Lol, I was thinking the same thing about your list. It can apply to both men and women. Be that as it may, I like it very much. I like what you said to your DS about his gf. Storming off is not acceptable, but, my son and NPD have said to me in the past when they got very angry," I need to walk away right now, I feel too angry to discuss this right now and need to cool down so I don't say anything out of anger that would be hurtful". At first this got me upset, but I realized that this is a better coping skill that screaming and yelling all kinds of hurtful things. It doesn't solve any problems. Also, they are willing to continue the discussion and are not avoiding it. I also started doing this when my emotions are so overwhelming that I'm not making sense.

When DS#3 was 14 he very wisely and profoundly said:

"Raising voices doesn't clear perception, it only increases tension."

Miracle: I know how hard it is to deal with pfm and his lies all the time. It is so much ingrained in him, he seems to do it automatically. The biggest thing he is doing is lying to himself. I pray that you can find peace and not let it get to you as much. I know you are getting there. I admire you and your journey to go ahead. You have done a wonderful job!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there are no Gender differences
I never said that tryn'. There certainly are gender differences. What I was saying was I have issues with sexist/chauvinistic/misogynistic attitudes toward women. Quite different than saying there are no gender differences.

I know you deleted the post about you offering to help RSEB's BH. I don't feel that should be held against him that he turned down that offer. I feel you are drinking some toxic kool-aid, tryn', and I don't know where you are getting it from. Maybe from the men's group you wanted RSEB's BH to join. I am glad he won't be drinking that kool-aid if that is where it comes from.

i have a goal and i have made choices to reflect that goal and attain it...
Thanks so much for expanding on your background, iwam. I was always a little confused about your marriage, especially since you had a baby fairly recently, right? This helps me to understand you and your pov's better.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8990 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kool-Aid?

Perhaps the same as NJgals tough love..

I remove that post because I called her H a name.. it was wrong in my mind as I thought about it.

Oh.. There are gender differences? I would love to know your differences in a list.

My point way back then.. I realize they are generalizations..

Women are nurturers and general men are not.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
LifeisCrazy
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to admit, Tryn, I'm finding it tough to follow your thought process. I think we're saying similar things.... but.... ???

The point of my story, as I think most people here got, was that a BS has to eventually make a decision as to where they want to go in life. Everyway, of course, is the right way - as long as the path is what YOU want.

RSEB's husband, from my very limited understanding, can't (or won't) make that decision. RSEB, of course, is in a wonderful place in that she really HAS tried. She really HAS done the work. So it's fair for her to be able to make demands at this point.... and I think she has every right to ask for a better marriage.

I understand that it's hard to put a time frame on things. After a year or so I was able to put a lot of the affair behind me and move ahead. Maybe others need more. But it seems to me that four years out, with very little progression, is a problem - not just for the husband for the WW. It's not healthy for either of them.

I find it peculiar that, coming from me (a BH of a LTA), that I actually would endorse her moving on. I don't think it's fair to expect a wife to have to pay a lifetime penalty when she's doing everything possible to make up for her actions.

There DOES come a time when people need to shit or get off the pot. It's not ok to continue to say, "Well, just a little more therapy." "Well if she just did THIS."

There are always those excuses and there are people who BECOME the excuses.

But you know what? Life is very short and it keeps moving along. Personally, I don't want to look back when I'm 80 and realize that I spent a major chunk of my life wallowing in sadness.

I choose for me. I hope he can choose for himself.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013
iwantamiracle
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Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the kool aid comment made me

its what my inlaws used to say to pfm...

stop drinking miracles kool aid....they believed i had brainwashed him..if only i could


lifecrazy: your story is one like njgal....its a story with a happy ending that the marriage works out....and its good to see that....

mc: your post on anxiety...holy shit batman....wow....i wonder if that might be part of pfms issues....as i read it i "saw" him....

in answer to your latest question...no pfm did not step up the way i felt he should have...he spent the first year kissin my ass, not being a dad....but still there for all the events, paying for everything that needed payin for,...but imo he was still not really plugged into the kids...he did "see" more then he had before, like i said he did change...but not enough....

and he is still not plugged into the kids in a genuine way, i believe he loves them, he does right by them with finances, taking them wherever, getting their cars fixed...but emotionally NOT..and in fact is totally inappropriate with his comments...like he tells my dd 21, that i am out there when i go out, meeting men....he mutters under his breath, but we hear every word and the words are often inappropriate for my kids to hear....alot of beating himself up, alot of woe is me and alot of what is miracle doin...miracle is doing what i did kind of shit...

anyways...feel free to ask me anything....i have been on this forum for so long...took a bit of a hiatus when i went back to school but kept in touch with some of the oldies....and i forget that there are so many of you here that to me are new(er) and don't know my history...

iironically it was one of the things i loved about the lta forum...we never really had to go through the whole story again and again..we get to know each other, iike a family....hell we even have some disagreements like family...


ukgirl: wow...so much on your plate...as far as when to tell the boys...i think that would depend on when you plan on divorcing...will you wait til the crisis with fil is past like you waited when your mum passed...you know what im gonna say right.... ...think ahead a many months....which decision is the one you could live with with the least regret...

and wow, i thought of fnf and her ws's prognosis of alzeihimers...and she feels stuck...its like something keeps getting in the way and keeping you together....

and then i thought about how i had just told pfm...he shouldn't be climbing up the ladder anymore to get to the gutters after i learned about this man his age who took a fall and is now crippled...and i wasn't nice about it but i thought i was amusing...

miracle: "pfm, so i don't think you should be climbing anymore ladders, its not worth it, and besides if you end up crippled i will never be rid of you"

sadly i meant it, but i laughed at it too...

oh and no, i am not the one who had a baby recently, i think that was m3...speaking of which

m3 where are you???l

lots of oldies have not checked in a while....so if your lurking which i know most of you do...say hello!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The point of my story, as I think most people here got, was that a BS has to eventually make a decision as to where they want to go in life. Everyway, of course, is the right way - as long as the path is what YOU want.

^^^This is why I sitck around the LTA forum. Some of us are D, some R some in limbo, but everyone helps others along the path they choose to take.


Great post on anxiety MC_Jack. It definitely is a 2 way street. Now I know why I used so many of those Brita water filters.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:13 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...well if we ever wonder if SisterMilkshake is lurking, we just have to drop a gender discussion post...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First.. I also laughed at the Kool-Aid comment. I’m not sure I always drink it all.. but I take all in and somehow try to get through all the fog.. lol

LifeisCrazy.. Yes, we are on the same page, except, I totally disagree with your take on it is not right to seek a therapist. A therapist can help someone make a choice and decision. They can help someone muster up some courage. They can help some understand so they make the choice to change a belief, a morality, or behavior.


Obviously, RSEB wants her M. My bet is her H is behaving in ways where he is not so attractive. If he was behaving attractive, then RSEB would not be reaching out to the tribe. She has been in this limbo for months now.


She wants him to heal. The problem is she can want it, but it is not her choice or decision.

What can she do?

Continue in limbo.. Then in several months she will be back again seeking support. Because a man behaving unattractive has no clue he is even behaving unattractive without a keen awareness. He is not going to change.

She can give him an ultimatum.. Go to therapy or I am going to leave. This is force. That usually never works. Don’t force anything is the best policy.

She can ask him to go to therapy.. Which she has already done and his choice was to continue to do nothing. She can ask again. It takes on average 3 months for someone to learn and implement a behavior change.

She can move on.. File for D.. find her own happiness. it is better to be healthy alone than sick with someone else. However, just perhaps, like NJgal H did..(NJgal H was addicted to alcohol and he joined AA which change him) he will finally seek the help he needs.

She can also choose some peace just being married just like Iwant. Do the best for her kids like Iwant... And plan for her future taking her sweet time.

I am very pro marriage. I would like to see RSEB asked him to find a therapist and just lay it all out.. Let them see what they say.. instruct what he should change.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC.. you crack me up.

Thanks for that anxiety post. I want to tell my son to run away.. Of course I cannot. It is nuts he always finds these GF who need rescuing.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for that anxiety post. I want to tell my son to run away

^^^ well it's not a doomsday scenario if your son can stare down the anxiety in a healthy way. I took all the dissatisfaction as criticism - and that is understandable. It was based on my own FOO to self-blame. When I got tired of the so-perceived critisim, I withdrew into school and work - to protect myself from WW. She saw that as abandoning her.

See, I did not know how to react to the anxiety in the right way. I am still only getting a handle on it. All my WW wants to hear is reassurance - that everything is ok. I now know she is struggling to get a grip, and my being defensive - even if warranted - isn't helping the anxiety.

Where does one get anxiety? Maybe FOO:
1. On your report card, you get 5 As and one A-. All discussion is about what you messed up to get the A-.
2. You have a problem that you bring to your narcissistic mother - she turns it around by saying that the issue is that you did not act in the way that mom would have.
3. All your achievements are heralded as evidence of being the perfect child - and you are put into that role as a way of the family dealing with all the other pain and mental illness.
4. etc.

When you have a host of external critics to go along with all the internal critical voices - no wonder you might be anxious...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 4:30 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack: Where does one get anxiety? It would be a step to healing if you can pinpoint that. But, in many cases, there is no specific reason. It can run in families. It runs in mine. I get it from time to time, which can manifest itself into anxiety attacks that are hard to get a hold of. Very emotionally exhausting. And there may be absolutely no trigger at all which is the hardest. My oldest son gets them too.

FOO issues can run deep. The A has triggered a lot of FOO for me, issues that I thought I had dealt with, but perhaps not enough, in addition to the old scars from xWH#1.

This discussion on the BS having to heal themselves has been very helpful for me. I think I was stuck in the shrapnel for so long because NPD was blaming me and then throwing more and more grenades. Then he would act nice and I was so desperately starving any crumbs seemed like manna from heaven. I also had to deal with putting my mother in a nursing home and going through her apartment. She was a horder... Not only was it her things, but my grandparents, and deceased uncles' things too. I realize now how emotionally draining it was to do all this by myself.

I am starting on the stage of acceptance of my loss. I will lose my house and all the equity I put in. I may have myself, but it's hard to start over financially. But I have to focus on MY healing.

Thank you all.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:10 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"so pfm, what did these other women give you that you could not get from me"
Before I do the catch-up (so chatty in this thread!) did anyone else get an answer?

Mr UKg said "Escape" Like he was a prisoner or something.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^Ukgirl. My stbx gave a similar response to that question. Her response was "I could be myself around "him". To me that just means escape from your everyday life. It's like helping to construct the prison cell that is our M and then building a secret escape hatch that only my WW has the key and location too. She got to get out for a bit when times got tough leaving me to rot in the cell.

The closest I got to understanding was the discussion we had about masks 1 or 2 threads ago. She had the mask on with me from day 1 like she had some image to uphold but didn't have to put it on with OM. Ass backwards if you ask me but I gave up on trying to figure it out.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
LifeisCrazy
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don’t force anything is the best policy.

Tryn.... I'm going to assume we're talking apples to apples here. If so, I simply cannot disagree with you more.

Following an affair's revelation I would absolutely agree. There is too much work to be done, on both the husband's and wife's part, to "force" anything. Both parties have far too much emotional work to do and it certainly takes time to get through the turmoil.

But that's no the situation here. We're talking about a couple that is now 4 years from discovery and BOTH have been a guilty party. Even if RSEB's husband doesn't consider it so he SHOULD recognize that SHE feels that way. There has to be some understanding, going both ways, of the level of betrayal.

The fact that he STILL doesn't get that.... the fact that he is STILL wallowing in the misery of his wife's infidelity.... the fact that he CANNOT see his wife's remorse.... the fact that he CANNOT move himself forward to a new place - these things require force. It is not acceptable for either party to remain in a life where one simply will not move forward.

This is not fair. While having him continue with therapy may well be a very good thing for him (and he obviously still needs it), it's no longer acceptable for him to not move forward. I'm sorry - but after a while it becomes incumbent on the individual to pick himself up by the boot straps and decide whether or not he wants a better life. If he can't, or won't, make that decision then the spouse can (and should) make the decision for him.

If people can continue to wallow in their misery for 4 long years, why not 5? How about 8? How about for the rest of their lives? At what point is it finally okay to say, "You know what? Enough already! I'm trying my hardest - you need to move forward from this! If not, I'm done!"

We all recognize our spouse's betrayal - and it DOES require quite work to get past. But, in the end, it requires a conscious decision to let it go, to recognize that it's never going to "go away" and that it will always be a source of pain.

But you know what? No one wants to live the remainder of their life focusing solely on the pain inflicted by the person who loves them. There comes a time to move forward... yes, maybe with professional help.... but the ultimate decision comes from YOU.

I wish RSEB's husband strength. I know how hard it is but he simply needs to look at his wife and decide if he can, and wants to, put it behind him. If the answer is yes.... then the time has come for him to do it.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LifeisCrazy

Sure, we are talking the same.. But you and me are different than RSEB's H.

Yes, RSEB's H needs to make his choice and decision. But he cannot. He is very confused right now.

You, me, ATS, MC and many other men on SI jumped all over it. RSEB’s H is stuck.

He needs masculinity training. His FOO did not train him correctly. My bet is our families did give us much of what we needed.. his did not. Her man needs re-programming.

His self esteem is destroyed and he is in great fear. My bet is he fears being single and no courage. My bet is MC, you, me and ATS have fears but we have courage. 7year for certain has no fear.. but a man of great courage.

Should RSEB D him.. He will be force to live in that fear. He will get used to it and the fear will fade. He is also a good looking man from a physical standpoint. I believe a woman will be very attracted to him and pursue him.. At that point, his self esteem will return.

But he might still have some very un-masculine characteristics about him.
Will he continue to live in Callousness?
Will he pick a woman again just like RSEB? Who was unable to communicate in such a way to say.. “You are not what I need.” And she continues to struggle with this as she wants so bad to make restitution… wanting to live up to her vow.
Can he lead a woman to openess.. one who will then be able to communicate?
Will he continue down a mindset where he fails to understand love and respect is a mindset?
Will he continue to never learn what forgiving means?
Can he grow from this boy to a man?

There are certain things that your lady needs in order for her to want
to give her love, affection, and intimacy to you. And if we as men know what these behaviors are and give those things to her, but without being manipulative or coercive about it, you will get what you want.

R's H does not know what these certain things are.

Like I pointed about in an earlier post.. There are certain types of people. We are not like RSEB’s H. We are that last bullet. He is not one of us.

I know I can help this man. He needs to get naked but he hides.

He is very close to getting himself disqualifed by RSEB. And who can blame her? Not me.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:04 AM, October 25th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
LifeisCrazy
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, we're definitely talking apples and oranges. You are discussing what her husband needs in order to MOVE FORWARD personally. I am talking about what he needs to do to move forward with HIS MARRIAGE.

He can discover his "masculinity" (whatever THAT means) all he wants - but if he doesn't get his head of out of his ass, soon, he'll be discovering himself as a single man.

Self discovery takes time, no doubt about it. And I would be the first to encourage him to do whatever is necessary to become the best person he can be.

But right now, per RSEB's posts, he's at the end of his latitude in the marriage. And he deserves to be. I don't believe that RSEB needs to continue to extend the time frames for their recovery in hopes that he may, one day, become "more masculine" and emerge from his doldrums.

But he cannot. He is very confused right now.

This is baloney. This is quintessential passive behavior that allows people to remain a victim.

Her husband is a grown man. FOO issues or not, he understands that his wife is no longer a threat to him and that she has done everything possible to move forward with the marriage.

I recognize that he may be too afraid to divorce. Entirely possible. But he's not so emasculated to not be able to see - FOUR YEARS after the fact - that his wife is trying to save their marriage and that he bears some responsibility in this.

I'm okay with you pointing out his need for improving himself. We all need that.

But if you're going to make excuses for why he has remained ambivalent about his marriage - when his wife has one foot out the door - well, I'm not on board with that.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, October 25th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi gang,

I thought I might wade in here just a bit.

...he understands that his wife is no longer a threat to him...
But he's not so emasculated to not be able to see - FOUR YEARS after the fact - that his wife is trying to save their marriage and that he bears some responsibility in this.

Understanding and seeing can be different than feelings and motivation. Since FWW has progressed on her journey, there are many instances where she "knows" a thing intellectually, but still responds, at least initially, based on her internal feelings and fears.

To my thinking, it is entirely possible that RSEB's H is overwhelmed with the idea of emotionally intimate sharing, open discussion, lowering boundaries, and/or expressing vulnerability. I do not know the root cause, but I do know that there is nothing that RSEB can do to change her H. That is why I said, and will continue to say, that at this point she needs to decide if the status quo is OK and she can make do, or if it is not acceptable to her and she needs to D or otherwise change the environment.

If her H was working on addressing his issues, acknowledging them and owning his issues, then I would say she had the third choice of wait and see. But from her posts, he is not, in any sustained way, owning his issues or actively working towards his healing.

So RSEN, how bad is it? Bad enough to balance the downsides to D, or not so bad that you join UKgirl, Laura, and I with a roommate/friend? While UKgirl, Laura, and I may wish for more from our FWSs, we accept that changing them is beyond our control and we have balanced the available choices.

In Yatzee, if you don’t like what you the first time, you can reroll. Working on R is a bit like this, a chance to change the M dynamics and get a better M going forward. The thing is, if you re-roll results in three 6’s and two 5’s you can decide to take it as a full house or use it as your 6’s, but no matter how much you wanted a Yatzee you don’t get one. At least not this round. Now 7yrsflushed is moving on to the next round and trying again, and iwam will be someday too, and we wish them well. But for some of us, our second roll is “good enough”.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:18 AM, October 25th (Friday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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