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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGal - I absolutely love those quotes. I am putting this book on my wish list. What a positive and reinforcing post. Thank you so much for sharing this with us but most of all for your care and concern. You have been a true friend and a positive influence and I am so glad to know you.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ats))): you are an incredible man ats, you too have come a long long way....mrs ats is a very lucky woman to have you in her life in any capacity

as far as your perspective on which way to take the things she says....follow your heart, do not listen to her words, watch her body movements as well as her facial expressions....and if you get it wrong, so be it...you are not a mind reader, you cannot always know what she wants, what she is thinking....

this is where mrs ats i believe has made strides...as much as she may react to your actions, i believe that after the fact she "sees" what or where she was wrong...will she "see" alway....no.....but she is trying and with her past issues, her past hurts she is doing the best she can with what she has in her toolbox so to speak....

and the fact that you do "see" that you have a pretty "good life" is a testament to your emotional well being....being able to be grateful for what we have as opposed to what we don't i think is one of the keys to be happy....

but damn there seem to be alot of keys to happiness......and we seem to need most of them...

miracle update: pfm's new counseler is a rip....i attended another session tonite...and the couseler was addressing pfms need to please, need for approval where his dad is concerned...and the counseler said:

"pfm its like your dad is still counting your pubic hairs",and then i cannot remember the exact words that followed because i was laughing so hard....but i believe his next words were about when is it time for you to let go, grow up and be your own man.....

his ic also told him that he should be genuflecting at my feet...and the ic looked at me thanked me for coming to his sessions ad told me that my input was invaluable....and the why.....because i call bullshit when pfm lies, shades the truth, or whatever...i give him a perspective that he needs so he can cut to the chase so to speak with pfm...and then he tells pfm " how could mracle believe the things you say when i don't even believe you, and i don't know you yet!!!


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle-
it sounds like pfm found a terrific IC.
And it's true....pfm should be kissing your feet for caring enough to go to the IC sessions.
Hopefully, the IC will help pfm become a better person so that he can be a better father to the kids.

ats- reading your post makes me feel so sad.
you and your FWW are so close to making it and yet ...she can't seem to get to the next level.
Her psychological problems continue to hold her back.
And like we often say on SI- remember that it has very little to do with you. She has issues that she needs to be working on.
Does she go to IC at all? I remember she was on again off again with her therapy.

I actually do agree with miracle in that I do see positive changes in your FWW compared to what you described to us in the past.

But, she is someone that needs ongoing therapy and support.

And, she needs to find the right therapist.

Someone that understands borderline personality disorder, depression, victims of abuse etc. as well as someone that has experience dealing with infidelity.

You truly are walking on eggshells every day.

Have you read that book? 'Stop Walking on Eggshells:Taking your life back when someone you care about has borderline personality disorder' by Paul T. Mason and Randy Kreiger.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryin- That's pretty amazing that you saw the OM's BW and did not trigger. Progress.

Just curious? Did you know the OM and his BS before d-day or did you meet her after d-day?

Do you know if they stayed together or did they split?

As you know I did contact MOW's BH after d-day and did meet him one time in person to exchange email evidence. I never saw the MOW in person-only in pics. They are now divorced.

It is unlikely that our paths will ever cross but I wonder how I would react..........


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, gosh iwam and njgal, thanks for the kind words and support.

FWW has been unemployed for over a year. With unemployment running out she has a seasonal job with a garden store that makes it nearly impossible to schedule with the IC for now. We had been doing some MC sessions. The sessions really were IC for her, but she wanted me to go. I think it made it seem more "normal" to her to do MC than more IC. She knows thta sessions help, she trusts no one but out IC/MC and she (we) have a long history with him. She does not really like the sessions, and so even when we go it was easy for her to find an excuse not to for periods.

I get that this is a very stressful time for FWW, in fact I predicted its coming soon after dday. Her father is in a care facility and dying. Her younger daughter is getting M'd this spring. Her older daughter (who has banned me from her house) recently had a baby. FWW is unemployed while I am having great career success. As she gets better, her life becomes more and more difficult because she recognizes the dysfunction in people (her sister, her older daughter, and friends) she once relied on for support. She often says that this is not how she expected her life to be at her age. I understand, but this is hers to fix.

On the topic of seeing OM and OMBS that is a situation I cannot avoid. 1st LTA OM she convinced me to help get hired where I was working while she was having her A with him. I am sure some of you remember my posts about having to work with him.

Second LTA OM is very active in the community with service clubs and non-profit boards. I really think this is where he trolls for APs. FWW was not his first AP, and he made advances to other women where she worked. In retrospect they were classic OM approaches. He hit on the woman whose husband was dying of cancer, the alcoholic woman, and another woman craving affirmation like FWW. His office is across the street from where I have a community board meeting.

Then there was the EA(?) with BIL. I will go to my grave convinced there was a PA involved with BIL, but how could FWW ever admit to that.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really think this is where he trolls for APs... classic OM approaches. He hit on the woman whose husband was dying of cancer, the alcoholic woman, and another woman craving affirmation...
^^^wow. It is obviously true that there are some predators who consciously seek out women of certain ages and life stages in a very cold-blooded, targeted way. I really have never wrapped my head around that. When I have flirted, etc. it has always been incidental, the person just happened to be there for the moment...so I can't imagine such a program.

I just thought of "Wedding Crashers" at the end of the movie: Chaz reveals his 'genius' at the funeral. Never really thought that this was imitating some aspect of real life.

iwam,

damn there seem to be alot of keys to happiness......and we seem to need most of them...
^^^one of the most subtle yet profound (and true) things Ive read here...



I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...predators who consciously seek out women of certain ages and life stages in a very cold-blooded, targeted way...

MC_Jack, and it is all very innocent appearing at first. He is only showing concern and support. He cares and is interested (compared to a heartless person like me). Those with boundaries will be polite, but end the visits to get back to work. If she responds to the increased attention then spending extra time lingering in her office to talk, and more and more discussion moves away from work and onto families, marriages, etc. If this is accepted then an invitation to get a coffee or lunch some time. Then a touch on the shoulder while talking, or a hug for support. If it continues, an offer for a drink after a meeting or work. The next time more drinks, more touching. All the while explaining what a wonderful person she is, and how sad he is with his M, how he and his W just do not connect anymore, and how he values her friendship. Texting hello in the morning, how are you doing at lunch, and good night in the evening.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:59 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats, mc:

its called grooming...you hear it associated with child molesters...well it applies to some ws's too.....pfm is one....the last frieind he made a couple of years ago was just that...he was grooming her, i knew about her existance before he told me, i knew he was grooming her i saw it and because he reads here i cannot go into details how i saw it.....anyways i told my ic....i told her to watch and see that she would become something....and i was right....pfm claimed that they were only friends....but that meant nothing...he was confiding in her, using her emotionally and would have if given a green light , persued more then that....

honest's ws is also a groomer... they are extrodinarily good at saying the right things to "lure" their prey....and sometimes they are not even aware of it, it becomes a natural order of things and every person they meet becomes a potential prey....they are users...use people to get what they want and then throw them away when done...or actually for pfm and mr dishonest...put them aside...never throw them away because they can still be useful just not as useful..rainy day people so to speak...and that is what honest and i had become....rainy day people to be used only on rainy days so to speak....honest is still a rainy day person...i graduated because pfm doesn't want to lose the package deal.......so i am front and center...but that doesn't prevent him from moving forward with grooming others...

there is always another to take the place of the previous prey/victim...

not all prey are created equal though...not all prey are victims...some are willing participants...

tryn: that smile she gave you......been pondering on it....why would she smile when she sees you....as much as you were the bs as she was...you should still be some sort of trigger for her...something not quite right there...unless it was one of those smiles you give someone as a sympathy smile....those are different because they are fear based...fear of hurting you or themselves.....


off to work i go, heigh ho, heigh ho..


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...not all prey are victims...some are willing participants...

FWW was certainly a willing participant who enjoyed the attention. He invited her on the business trip, but she is the one who invited him to her room for a nightcap after drinking with him at the hotel bar. She says sex with him was not expected, but really what else could have been expected? How much clearer would the "I am Available" sign need to be? The LTA before this one she was the initiator and pursuer.

...why would she smile when she sees you....as much as you were the bs as she was...you should still be some sort of trigger for her...

It could be automatic reaction. When I worked where FWWs Om did I would see him from time to time as we passed in traffic. He would wave with a big grin, and often I would wave back out of reflex. I HATED WHEN THAT HAPPENED! For a while I tried to prep myself to ignore when this occurred, but eventually I got to indifference and stopped worrying about it. She was probably caught off guard and reverted to habitual behavior with a smile.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

not all prey are created equal though...not all prey are victims...some are willing participants...
^^^at a minimum they are victims of themselves.

About 'grooming': creepy.

My WW told me months ago about what thy would talk about on the phone. Her trips to meet him were always big letdowns...the reality never matched the fantasy that she spooled up in her head via her phone. She would return from her trips with a really negative view of the A. The next few months, the OM would always make sure on the phone call to say how great the trip was, how great it was to see her, etc. etc. Basically helping re-write the experience. Then he would pivot over the subsequent months to how great it would be to see her again, how great it is to look froward to something fun and special, etc. etc. Then he would suggest a trip. I have not given OM much headspace ever, but I guess I can see how messed up he was.

I am glad his BW is handing his ass to him. His loss big time. BTW, if she smiles at me, I am smiling back. Tryn can answer for himself, but I imagined a knowing smile, kindred spirit, a smile of surviving infidelity...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:04 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats - let people think you are "heartless" as much as they want -- you are a person of integrity, of character, with good boundaries. Years and years ago I worked with this married man who competed in chess tournaments in his off time. I am only a fair chess player, and asked him more than once to teach me how to play on our lunch hour. He always politely refused. His wife wouldn't like it. Other people there thought he was 'distant' and made comments about his wife keeping him on a short leash, et cetera. In retrospect, I don't think so. I bet his wife never even knew he kept every other woman there at arm's length, even the ones with innocent intentions. He just had good boundaries. And I say good for him -- and you. I didn't need to learn to play chess that bad. :)

IWAM - WH's IC sounds like a trip!

[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 5:09 PM, December 5th (Thursday)]


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - I am so glad that I have never seen the OW (which of course now I probably jinxed myself ). It'll be 8 years this Christmas and not once did I see her. I can't imagine how tough that must have been each time you had to look at the OM.

Tryn - I agree with MCJack - I think it was a "kindred spirit" kind of smile. We are "survivors" after all and maybe seeing a look of contentment on your face as you walked with your W made her feel happy for you. Btw, did their M survive??


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn - I agree with MCJack - I think it was a "kindred spirit" kind of smile. We are "survivors" after all and maybe seeing a look of contentment on your face as you walked with your W made her feel happy for you. Btw, did their M survive??

I really hope she has forgiven OM and they both made a choice to have a new marriage too. I know nothing about their M. I think they are still M.

Yes, OM and his W was part of my life too; not only him being my W's employer, but social too.

My plan if I see OM next time..
I go up to him and say, "I forgive you."
Then go about my day.
I want to set him free if he happened to feel remorse.. if not, no big deal.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:26 PM, December 6th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
mitz66
♀ Member
Member # 17888
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone: I haven't been on this thread for a long time. I thought my wh was a fwh, I found out last weekend that he is still in contact with ow via phone. I don't know if he has email contact or fb as he will not give me access. Last time I got access there wasn't anything from her as he deleted it.

6.5 years of this. I don't even know what to say to him. I was going to confront again tonight but I am exhausted and don't have it in me. He away for a couple months, near ow but 3 hrs away. I am a 3 day drive away from him. I really thought he had finished with her. I feel very foolish for believing him again... well thanks for listening.

It is comforting to see some names from when I was here before, sorry to see folks struggling and my thoughts are with you all.


Me:44 BS Him:43 WH
M May 07 Adult kids
DDay #1 Pics on cell jly 07
Jan08 DDay #2 "Just Friends" admits EA DDay #3 July 2010 - he insisted on platonic contact ..False R - until Dec 2010 admits PA in April 07
Dec 2012 NC succeeded

Posts: 542 | Registered: Jan 2008
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mitz-Wow! I am so sorry. Of course you are exhausted. I am almost 7 yrs post d-day and I would be totally shocked to find out that my FWH was still in contact with the OW.
Do you have someone to talk to IRL?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
mitz66
♀ Member
Member # 17888
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi NJGal, I think part of me is still in shock. I do have my best friend who stands by me and is angry for me. It has been a crappy week, found out about ongoing contact and dog died.

Glad for SI and old SI'rs.


Me:44 BS Him:43 WH
M May 07 Adult kids
DDay #1 Pics on cell jly 07
Jan08 DDay #2 "Just Friends" admits EA DDay #3 July 2010 - he insisted on platonic contact ..False R - until Dec 2010 admits PA in April 07
Dec 2012 NC succeeded

Posts: 542 | Registered: Jan 2008
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{Mitz}}}}}}} I'm so sorry to hear this. Keep posting here. Get your bearings. Talk to people IRL. Don't let him know you know, gather more info before you confront.

Only you can decide if this is a dealbreaker.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((mitz))))

oh my gosh, i am so so sorry....how did you find out? and take some time to adjust and then formulate a plan....if he is months away from being home...you have the benefit of time and space....i recommend confrontation to be in person....where you could look him in the eye and watch his body language....not that it matters with us i guess...they are so skilled at lying....

so i guess then you need to ask yourself some really hard questions....

will you ever trust him again and could you stay within the marriage if the answer is no

aret the biggest questions.....

i am glad you have some irl support....it helps a great deal....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, December 6th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dh and honest....how are you both doin?

dh if you still want to play chess, there are some really good apps...

i just had a weird though....we have gotten so attached these days to our techie toys....we come to rely on them so much from playing chess, writing mails to b.o.b!!!!!!

god bless the techie toys!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, December 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a great thread in General:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479

It outlines in a condensed form a lot of the wisdom found on SI.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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