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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
Sproket
♂ Member
Member # 41262
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault and MCJack

That is how I feel that I don;t think she really gets it.
Today had a whole day to myself and I enjoyed it. Felt great to feel normal.

She has maintained a NC with the OM.
I talked with the OM and the OM BS and my WW wasn't the OM only AP. I don't really think the OM wants a full time relationship with my WW.
I won't commit to any long term plans with her right now and she knows that once my knee is repaired it will be a different story.
In some way I think she knows it so my WW been putting forth effort to do all the exercises in MC and IC. She paying for it so I guess she wants to be honest. Honesty in my book isn't remorse.


ME:BS 40
W: WW 40
M: Oct 2009
D.D Nov 2, 2013

Posts: 68 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: VA
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

About disclosure....after d-day I decided that I was not going to keep any more of my FWH's secrets!
You see, in my situation I had been keeping his secrets for many years.
Before D-day I had covered up for his alcoholism throughout our marriage-so much so that he never had any consequences and therefore never had any reason to change...
I kept it a secret because I did not want him to lose face and I did not want to be judged by family and friends.
He was a functional alcoholic so by all outside appearances things looked fine.
I kept it under wraps because I was not ready to leave him and I felt it was best for my children.

So,I completely understand why some BS do not wish to reveal this secret to others.

After d-day I took another position-I was tired of covering for him. And I wasn't going to keep things a secret any longer. I had nothing to be ashamed of. I had been living an authentic life. I was a good wife, mother, friend, etc. I was not going to let my husband's action define who I was.

Of course family and friends judges him after these revelations. They wouldn't be human if they didn't. And it took time for them to accept the fact that we were reconciling.
But, as time passed and they saw that he was remorseful and genuine in his desire to save the marriage and become a better person then even the toughest critics started to come around.

Most people are a lot more forgiving than you think. And... most people are too busy with their own lives to focus too much on other's problems for too long.
So...don't spend a minute worrying that you told too many people.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 12:03 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sproket: yes your marriage can survive...but it takes work....and not just on your part but on the part of the ws....njgal has successfully "r" with her fws.....

marion: you are never alone...

and welcome to both of you to our little corner of si...


i must strongly disagree with the need to "out" the ws to everyone....for some this may work, for others...not

children should never have to deal with adult issues....they should never feel like they have to choose one parent over another...when your chldren are grown its another matter...but until then.....its not their concern or their business...and as for everyone else....its also none of their business

i do believe that if possible all bs's need to find a trusted friend or family member that they CAN confide in, someone who will hold their trust and keep the information confidential until the bs decides otherwise....

irl support can be crucial to healing, especially when your ws is a fuckwit!!!!

and dh your family is WRONG.....WRONG.....WRONG......they should not punish you for what he has done....and thats exactly what they are doing....supporting someone does not mean that you alienate them.....they are choosing to be angry with him, taking it out on you and your dd...

loving you, should mean putting aside their feelings to support you...and not bullying you into doing something you are not ready for

and as for leaving your ws over the holidays to be with this family....i say hell no....they are wrong to put you in that position....and as much as i would like to hit your ws upside the head he is still the father to your dd....and putting your dd in that position is reprehensible!!!she should never have to choose one parent over another....as sucky as he is, he is HER father and that is not going to change....supporting her relationship with him is the right thing to do.....and doing otherwise will end up backfiring and hurting your kid....your kid will grow to resent you....i said it before and i will say it again...

a child should never be put into a position to choose between parents....its a lose lose proposition...the exception to this is when you have teens, and the marriage splits up...the teen can choose where to live....all other issues should be worked out between the adults...

chilcren never should have to deal with adult issues...its just not fair to them...and it writes on who they become....


(((tribe)))



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chilcren never should have to deal with adult issues...its just not fair to them...and it writes on who they become....

Absolutely.

And in my occupation I see far too much of this and it is absolutely frustrating because the law is ill equipped to deal with it.

Having said that, I don't fault anyone who didn't or couldn't conceal it from the children for one reason or another. My point is that it is a valid choice to keep these matters private - it's not generated out of some fear or weakness in the BS, nor a product of shame.

There seems to be this recurring theme on this thread of calling the BS afraid or weak if R is not going well. I don't understand it. This used to be a very friendly, comforting, supportive place. Yes, we urged people to take action when they appeared hesitant to do so, but it was done in a supportive, not accustory manner. It's a shame.

Peace to all.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:42 AM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{Allgood}}}} You are one of the strongest people I know and I admire everything you have done. You tried to R with your WH and were able to be strong enough to S and take care of your 4 small children. You are and have always been an inspiration to me. You have worked so hard and been through such trauma and yet you come here and help us. Thank you.

I agree with Miracle, that we do need support IRL. As with anything personal, we have to be careful who we confide in. I know it has been suggested on SI to "out" the A to everyone in hopes it would have the WS suffer the consequences of his/her actions. This can backfire, of course, and every situation is different. We have to be careful who let in on our confidence.

As, Allgood has pointed out, telling everyone, and especially certain people, could get back to the children who will be extremely hurt. Telling adult children is a personal choice and depends on the situation, especially if you are thinking of S/D and they want to know why.

Infidelity is such a selfish act. It causes so much trauma and pain. It's betrayal to the highest degree. Betrayal IS a big deal. Geez, when I think about it, treason is betrayal to one's country and is punishable by death. I'm not suggesting that we have the death penalty for infidelity, but sometimes I wish that these "No Fault" states would make an exception when it comes to infidelity so there are some consequences to killing the heart and soul of the BS and betraying one's family.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There seems to be this recurring theme on this thread of calling the BS afraid or weak if R is not going well.
^^^ I really do not think that this is happening. I think it is plain to see that here, like in the general or jfo threads, that the reason R is not going 'well' is because the WS continues to gaslight, cake-eat, deceive, refuse NC, etc. etc. In fact for some here there is no real R.

True it would be wrong for DH's family to punish her for R...but I was under the impression that with the latest postings that the R was false...

it's not generated out of some fear or weakness in the BS, nor a product of shame
^^^allgood, maybe not for you, but for some it is...the WS threatens to withhold R or even $ if the BS reveals, for example.....my only point was that a BS should feel free to disclose if it makes sense for themselves or the M...the WS should not be a consideration...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

these "No Fault" states would make an exception when it comes to infidelity
^^^honest, that would be nice, I am thinking especially of the situations with the WH who wants to trade in his SAHBW for younger model or the WW that wants her BH to financially support her while she gallivants from one penis to the other...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honesty in my book isn't remorse.
^^^Sprocket, yes it is not remorse, but it is a step in the right direction. The things she said sounded cruel indeed. But if they are true, then that clarity for you is better than being trapped in hopa-hopa-land.

Plus, if she is learning to be honest, that is great - from that learned comfort of being authentic - she can develop so new thoughts, actions, and feelings about you. She can't do that from a dreamworld.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood-
I'm sorry if I came across as judging you or any other BS as to how they handled their own situations.
I totally understand not wanting to air your dirty laundry to the world.
Personally, I think that I told too many people.
I was in such a state of shock that I just kept rambling on to anyone that would listen.

And yes, it is a bit embarrassing and shameful to think that others know that my FWH was involved in a LTA and I forgave him and now we are one big happy family.
I'm sure that there are friends and acquaintances that are scrutinizing us when we socialize with them or are out at big social events-weddings etc.

So when I wrote that bit in my response about feeling ashamed and not wanting to be judged I really was speaking about myself. I probably should have written it differently.
Whenever I write anything it is purely based on my experiences or from my experience as a BS and as someone that has read tons of books, articles etc. and has been on SI for years as well as other infidelity support sites.

My opinion and my experience is simply that- my own experience.
And there are so many different experiences and back stories on SI.
We have the infidelity in common and there are many similarities but there are also many differences.
All we can do is have an honest dialogue and exchange of opinions.

about being supportive and encouraging....
are you saying that it may be better for us to not encourage a BS to take a stronger stance toward an unremorseful WS if it seems as if the BS is not ready to go there?

Perhaps you're right.

Maybe we should temper the advice giving.
In AA they don't allow cross talk.
Which means that at a meeting no one speaks up and gives advice to another participant.
What they do is allow each participant to describe their experience etc. But no one comments other than saying thank you for sharing.

and then...later after the meeting if someone wants to privately reach out to another for more information or support or advice they can do that.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGal,

I'm sorry if I came across as judging you or any other BS as to how they handled their own situations.

I don't think you came off that way. I know you truly care about everyone here & are offering your perspective as do we all.

are you saying that it may be better for us to not encourage a BS to take a stronger stance toward an unremorseful WS if it seems as if the BS is not ready to go there?

No, not at all. I just don't like labeling a BS, who's self esteem is probably already shot to shit as "weak" and "scared". I think it is getting thrown around more often than necessary and not in a helpful way, but in an insulting,condescending way.

Pointing out to the BS what they might not be seeing clearly due to the emotion involved is what this site is for. And encouraging them to take the next step. There is a lot of fear in change and fear of unknown consequences. That's a legitimate reaction. I just think we can show someone the way in a more supportive manner and a little less "holier than thou". (Not that you do that - that you are empathetic & being supportive is very clear.)

MCJack - re disclosing the A - I agree that it is a personal choice & it is the BS's choice to make. That is not, however, what you said. What you said was " they should not fear 'consequences' and need to let go on nicing the WS back into the M." So, while your position may have been misunderstood, it was not due to my creation of a "straw man argument". I simply read what you wrote.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 12:49 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And Honest, thank you for your kind words.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood:

they should not fear 'consequences' and need to let go on nicing the WS back into the M.

is consistent with

a BS should feel free to disclose if it makes sense for themselves or the M...the WS should not be a consideration...

...the premise being that the BS wants to disclose and is not doing so related to external reasons..


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack - your message over a number of posts was consistently that everyone should tell friends and family about the affair because "what damage could come from telling the truth" and the BS would then be learning the WS tricks of being deceptive and that one is weak and scared otherwise.

It was not your stated position that there was any other valid choice.

the premise being that the BS wants to disclose and is not doing so related to external reasons

If this was YOUR premise, that was not clear. It also dismisses the children as "external reasons".

If you have now changed your mind - that's great - glad to hear it.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 2:26 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haven't changed anything...

that everyone should tell friends and family about the affair because "what damage could come from telling the truth" and the BS would then be learning the WS tricks of being deceptive and that one is weak and scared otherwise.

^^^Premise being that they want to disclose and therefore should because "what damage could come from telling the truth" and the BS would then be learning the WS" habits of being inauthentic."


...btw, I never used the term weak...nor deceptive...you keep on projecting your words onto mine...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 2:34 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
marion
♀ Member
Member # 33625
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the welcome. So much really valuable information on this thread. Still trying to process it all....
I can share that I did not tell simply because at the beginning, I just didn't have the energy...and from what I have learned in IC is that some of this decision may/is related to being an introvert/extrovert. Introverts do not necessarily share nearly as much as extroverts and in truth, it is not correct or incorrect, it is simply a communicative style. So, some may process by internalizing what happened and others may feel a very strong need to communicate it to others in order to process the hurt...
Not sure if this is helpful to others but I found it easier to accept that I wasn't "weak or pathetic" (my own judgment of myself) because I didn't tell the world what awful things my H had done. He was very broken and has/is working very hard to recover and I guess the reason I am still here is because I am trying (but Lord it is not easy some days) to give him the chance to prove what he says he wants to prove....that he is so truly sorry ...
Again, many thanks to each of you for your stories and universal acceptance one another. I am so grateful...Marion

Posts: 102 | Registered: Oct 2011
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

McJack
I am not projecting & believe my summary of your position was accurate, despite not going back & using your exact words. But, I will not waste any more time on the subject.

Hope everyone enjoyed their weekend.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:06 PM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all and checking in

I did not out my WW A because 1) I considered it ours to deal with and our chances to R were much better without outside interference and 2) I am an introvert and do not feel the need to tell my story incessantly

H&C


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Afternoon all! Welcome to the newbies to this forum.

With new years coming up I went back and looked at some of my older posts today. I found this from a post I made in LTA part 30 on the last day of the year of 2012. I came to the LTA forum in October of 2012 and I was a wreck. The LTA part 30 thread was a life saver for me. Man have I come along way. I finally got my act together with the help of everyone here and made a vow (in bold in the quote below) on new years eve last year that I had no idea how to keep but I did it. Man was a I able to soak up some emotional damage, I was even still clinging on to some tiny strand of hope even then.

So here is the question that I have to become impartial or just not give a damn about to actually feel like I have truly detached:

Once my wife does crash and burn, if she finally wakes up and starts working on herself and wants to work on the M, is it because she realizes what she screwed up and potentially lost or because she has nowhere to go and decides to settle?

The correct answer is the question is irrelevant because I decide what I want regardless of what she does and move forward in life. This is what I struggle with now. I know I can't accept not being #1 with her but there is this small piece of me that won't let go for some reason. I am not even fighting for attention from her anymore or doing any of the things I did in the past. I am truly moving forward on my own path but the end game is filing and that is what I need to be comfortable with because to me filing means shutting the door on that part of my life forever. I know it's opening a new door, it's just right now I see the door it just doesn't have a handle on it yet.

I am not going backwards, I just needed to get this out this morning. I don't do new years resolutions but I will not leave 2013 in this same spot so I will work on me until I am ready to file. I also decided that no matter what I will do something special with my kids every day this year. This evening we are going to put together one of those bajillion piece erector sets they got for Christmas and I have already starting looking at plays that are coming to town. Got to focus this energy on the right place. Happy New year all!

It still took me several months to file but this was truly the first step towards freeing myself from the shitstorm. I guess now I need to figure out what my non-new years resolution will be for 2014. I feel good and things are looking up more each day. For those of you still stuck in limbo with unremorseful WS's just know that this shit truly and really does get better. Keep going at your own pace but remember sometimes it's okay to take those leaps of faith and go out on your own even when you are only 60 or 70% ready. You WILL make it. If I could make it out of my situation then so can you. Your life will be different but that's okay and life without a unremorseful WS in it causing chaos is peaceful, good, and what you make of it.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs: Thank you for posting that. It was very timely and helpful for me.

I am so extremely inspired by you. You have come so far and worked so very hard.

I have been so stuck and although I kept saying to myself to give up hope, it was very tenacious and kept growing only for it to be squashed time and time again. I kept believing pretty words that I wanted so much to believe and not looking at the actions.

Today I get in the mail something for the OC that has almost the same name as my daughter who died. It hurts. I am going to tell NPD that he needs to change the address for them to his friend's or his aunt's.

I try to look to the future, but I still see more hurt, more craziness......but at this point change can only be better. <sigh>


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to our new posters in the LTA forum - I wish you all strength to get through this. Lots of good advise here.

I just don't think you can come back from a LTA.

Sproket - you can but it takes a lot of hard work. You also need a WS that is remorseful and willing to address the things that caused them to stray from the M.

As far as the topic of whether to tell family and friends - you need to evaluate your own situation to decide what it best. I decided to not tell any family & friends. My WW & I wanted to R and I think telling family & friends would have made this process more difficult for us. My MIL was a BS and there are some definite parallels. As far as it being weak for a BS to not tell - I can tell you from my own experience that it takes a ton more strength to not tell. There have been several times when I wanted to say and didn't because I knew that the R I wanted was going to be more difficult if I did tell. Of course my WS preferred I did not tell as well but that has never been the reason why I did not. Telling has been a condition that I have used to maintain that NC is in place - I will tell if NC is broken.

to me, it seemed that keeping the secret somehow implied that I was complicit in the betrayal, a co-conspirator, and that I needed carry part of the burden.

I think the above was stated as how you felt as an individual but I would caution the above type of advise. That statement is very close to blaming the victim type of approach which I think is very counter-productive advise. BS are the victims and to make is sound like they are ever complicit or co-conspirators is some twisted thinking if you ask me. Those are legal terms that define guilt for a crime, I can assure you no BS is ever going to be convicted for their WS having an A.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
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