I PUT ON A GOOD SHOW, GO TO WORK DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO, BUT I AM DEAD INSIDE"
I can totally relate to this. I do not feel capable of trusting or being in another relationship.
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:41 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
She put me back on a good path many time. I respect her greatly for that.
Kinda like Iwant, NJgal, sister, honest, nell and Allgood who set me straight too. Thanks ladies.
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:59 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
He will stay there until something moves him.. like the pain of end. Even after that, his fears and negativity may be too great. If he chooses to stay in the same place, he will continue to fail in love over and over.
Having said that, the "strong men" and "strong women" on this board weren't always so strong. We all hit that point where we understood the saying, "the pain ends when you say it ends" and RSEB's husband isn't there yet and there isn't much she can do about it but try to be as supportive as she can but she has to keep moving forward with her healing and doing what's right for her and her child. As always "you can only control yourself" applies to this situation as well.
On another note, hey to UKgirl!
Anyone heard from Gotta lately. If your lurking, still thinking about you Gotta! Hope you are doing okay.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:54 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
For some BS the LTA is a deal breaker.
They simply cannot get over it.
In his response to you he sounds very depressed.
From what you describe you have been very remorseful and working hard to try to save the marriage.
But, sometimes it just doesn't happen.
The pain that the BS feels goes very deep and they cannot move forward.
The grenade analogy is excellent.
And yes, that is what infidelity is like.
But, also like someone in a real grenade explosion some people may experience such severe PTSD that they do not recover.
This could be the case for your BH.
I don't remember if you have any children but, if you do I would focus on them and focus on yourself at this point.
Live the best life you can and try to be the best person you can be.
And then.... like the others have said you should observe and decide what your next move should be.
Living with sadness, grief,stress and anxiety is not living.
I am going to put you on the spot here... Over the last 1 to 2 years I have read you mention that pfm proved that he is still a liar, hasn't changed, etc. even though he thinks he has...but I have never seen what it is specifically.
...your betrayal was horrendous. Do you perhaps find it easier to have an impossibly high bar for pfm to get over, thus failing him in not doing enough to R, when the real issue maybe that you can not forgive what he did in the past no matter what he does now? Meaning is it some type of emotional gymnastics to feel some sense of control in the present...
I am not making sense really...just something in your post to RSEB made me think that pfm 'aint the issue no more...
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:43 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
so glad to see you back, not glad to read your struggle.
I agree with ats, tryn, njgal, et al...
it has been very hard for me to accept that not only is healing me my job, but in fact it is my obligation if I have offered to R. By saying hey let's R, and hey you are remorseful and owning your shit, I must now make the mental choice to move through the pain and heal, have it be in my past. All on me.
There is one poster whose threads you might find interesting...username: uncertainone. She has quite a penetrating insight, yet can be controversial and confrontational. She may have been disbarred from SI a few weeks ago for calling out some folks (rightfully so IMO). She advocates for a kind of hyper-emotional health. She would not be very flattering of your BHs pity party.
That text from your BH made me wince, as it seemed to be disconnected from reality. No mention of his A after falling on love with you.
I wonder: does he resent you not for the affair, but for him having married you? Does he resent that you forgave him and thus he had to marry you? Does he resent that he had to give up his AP, other future conquests, sowing his oats, to marry you, and that you failed some implicit bargain associated with what he gave up?
What if he has never loved you, married you out of some screwed up sense of obligation, rationalized staying married with you because after all you were a 'good, faithful woman' and now dealing with his self-delusion is what is causing the pain?
Just trying to think out of the box...
first...pfm has changed from the man he was...he no longer verbally abuses me, he no longer emotionally abuses me, he no longer takes on the roll of "head" of household with an attitude that we all owe him, he now pretends to be plugged in with the kids and with me, he now is home alot, he is now a man who holds open doors and helps around the house....my kids call him an ass kisser....and for the most part for all of the external stuff he is....
as for the internal stuff...there is no change...he is still a liar, he is not transparent, after his mothers death last week it would seem he is still their son ( that has alot of different meaning to it...long long long ass story)....
pfm was a rotten husband and not a great dad....i always believed his intentions were there if the actions were not...he was a workaholic..on top of having 2 confirmed lta's at the same time as well as a few short term things here and there that i know of.....long ass history...he always put his parents, siblings, work, some friends before me and the kids...me and kids were never a priority no matter the circumstances...he did get better somewhat a couple of years before i found him out...but the fundamentals were still there....he was the man who expected perfection from everyone but himself...he no longer goes there except with manchild...but the issues with manchild run deep mostly because of pfms expectations...and because manchild is so much like him...
anyways....he has changed the external shit not the internal shit, and without changing the internal shit its all moot
and no i have not forgiven him yet, and i know that i probaby will not be able to forgive him until we are divorced and settled, because until that happens i know that he will manage to make life a living hell once i decide to file...i have not told him when i plan on doing this, i have not made this information public knowledge, but i do have a defintive deadline...
i did give our marriage a chance...i gave him 6 months, at the end of that 6 months i told him i wanted a divorce, but he could stay in the house until i do what i need to do to get on my feet as well as i really wanted him to fix his relationship with my kids...
he has never stopped insisting that we could work out the marriage, he has become jealous, he has become all consumed with knowing everything about me, to a scary point actually, i have caught him searching through my phone, my ipad and my closet, my drawers, etc....
i have never hidden from him the fact that i plan to divorce, he has insisted he is a changed man and up until the last few months, he has insisted this daily, just like he used to insist daily that he told me everything there was...again, i found more and til this day as never admitted to it....still claims i now have it all....9 months after d-day he took a lie detector test...he passed, not with flying colors but he passed....with a score of 7 out of 10 and the examiner did not ask him my specific questions....pfm is alot like clinton....the clinton who stated emphatically that he did not have sexual relations with that woman....
anyways, i hope you get the picture about what i meant about change....
and you know pfm shows me almost daily that i have chosen wisely...that the marriage is not salvageable...
and back to forgiveness...its hard to forgive someone who keeps on lying, who keeps on violating my privacy, who keeps on insisting...instead of at this point in time..if he really loved me like he claims to, he would be a man and say...miracle i have done enough, i will step back and let you go, i will no longer harass you, i will no longer search through your belongings...etc..and i will make sure you and the kids are taken care of...
and if he really wanted to SHOW me a new pfm...then he should have stopped lying, stopped making new friends (women friends), stopped hiding his shit, basically shown me a changed person with behavior...but instead its still all about him, always has been...
and yes i still have some anger...but not nearly as much...and i know when its all done the rest of the anger will dissapate be
rseb, I guess in my above post, I was wondering if your H's A was an exit affair of sorts, and now he resents 'doing the right thing'...
...just throwing something at at the wall here...
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:06 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
There is very little the WS can do to heal the BS. To heal the M, sure; that is a separate issue, but healing the BS is all on the BS
Ats, this is one of the best quotes I've read on SI. The only thing I could add, is as I said before, if the BS is so caught up in the pain, just encouraging words, whether from the WS or other people who care CAN help tremendously to encourage the BS to start their healing and continue to do so. It's like losing weight, the encouragement helps keep you going, but it's all on the person who is losing the weight to do the work.
It's like 7yrs said:
My catalyst for moving forward was this forum, RSEB's husband still needs to find his catalyst, whatever that may be
RSEB: I do agree with NJgirl, it sounds like your WH is deeply depressed. He may possibly need some AD's to lift the pain for a while so he can start to delve deeper within himself so he can start to heal.
UKgirl: HI!!! It's so good to see you. I've often thought about you and hope you are doing ok. Please give us an update. We're family here, y'know? We care
RSEB: Just as a perspective, I've been stuck for a long time, myself. I've been two steps forward one step backward and many times one step forward and one step backward. It's taken me a long time to really delve deep and I think I might be finally getting to the root of why I'm stuck. What Ats and 7yrs and many of our other wise tribe has said here is that your BH needs to start owning his own healing just as you have owned your betrayal.
The only thing I could suggest is that you gently tell your BH that you have done all you could. You know he is hurting still, but he has to start doing the real work of healing himself. You will be there to help in any way you can, but he has to start doing it.
I PUT ON A GOOD SHOW, GO TO WORK DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO, BUT I AM DEAD INSIDE"
I can totally relate to this. I do not feel capable of trusting or being in another relationship
Allgood: You work so hard. You are raising 4 wonderful kids and putting everything into them. You are coparenting with xWH and don't have time to deal with other people. I can relate. I did this when my first xWH#1 left. I was so busy working, taking care of my kids, mother, grandparents, going for my masters I didn't have time to breathe. Take some time for yourself and meet other adults. You will get there. You are doing a great job!!
So many of the post have got me thinking. If the WS is blameshifting, the BS starts to either be defensive or start to believe what the WS is saying. They really don't look inside themselves to help heal. They are still being traumatized and emotionally abused.
Miracle: thank you for all your encouragement. You and the all the others here are the voices I hear when I'm sitting in the fog and smoke of the grenade explosions.
and yes i still have some anger...but not nearly as much...and i know when its all done and over the rest of the anger will dissipate ....because that is what i will choose to do...
and even though i feel all of this...he is still the father of my kids...so with that in mind...i have attended HIS ic, and will continue to attend his ic when his ic requests it...because ultimately i want us to be somewhat more then civil....i don't know that i would call it a friendship that i would seek, but a relationship that shows we can be friendly for our kids...kwim
oh and you mentioned that "sense of control"...i have taken control...i went back to school, got my certification and got a job....i am taking control of my present and my future.....before i would allow him to have alot of control....that all ended on d-day....i have a goal and i have made choices to reflect that goal and attain it...
and lastly...pfm is not the issue??? well he is and he isn't....
he will remain the issue until we are settled into a divorce role....once we get to that end goal, he will no longer be an issue....because until that point in time i cannot put him behind me since i will still have to deal with him,hear him and see him....makes it difficult for him not to be an issue...
but it no longer defines me, it no longer stops me from doing what i want and need to do for me
and i am proud of myself...it took me a long time to be able to function let alone get to the point i am now...i have had alot to take in....and you know there was a point in time where i wanted to know it all, needed to know it all, even after i decided to divorce him i wanted and felt i needed all the info....his ic had asked me to ask him a specific question in front of him so he could see how he would answer...the question was
"so pfm, what did these other women give you that you could not get from me"
first i had issue with that question because pfms cheating had nothing whatsoever to do with me on any level....and second i knew what pfm would answer...i told the ic he would ultimately answer "i dont know"
so the time came i asked, pfm started some cock in bull shit about how he wasnt' getting sex from me (first off, our sex life changed after he raped me....the blameshifting he tried in the beginning when i first found him out), so i said "no, no no...what did you get from ow#1, she was there before me that i could not give you"...again he tried some cock in bull story (so obviously almost 5 years later and he still is not accountable), and again i said no no no....so after doing this song and dance, several times over pfm looks at me and says...
wait for it
wait for it
"i don't know"
and the best part...i dont care....i no longer have the need to know which i means i have let go of the marriage...i still have some anger, but i know i will let go of that too someday...the only thing i think i will always have issue with is that he has not been accountable, and that in general bothers me about all peeps....oh and that he is still a liar, i don't like liars....(and pfm will lie about anything...from the inane to huge)....
talk about ramblin....long winded....more power to ya mc if ya actually got through it all....
ok mc..what does he lie about..
i have caught him in my phone...not actually doing it but after the fact and he says no he wasn't in my phone, i think he lying to me about money...i believe he is hiding money from me again...he has lied about the inane shit....
example....can't remember the specifics, because its inane shit
miracle: "pfm what does this mean" pointing to a phrase
pfm " gives long winded definition that makes no sense to me"
miracle" that doesn't make any sense"
pfm: "well then i guess i don't know"
miracle"so why didn't you just answer, you don't know"
or there is pfm you slammed the dish on the counter...no i didn't
or recently when manchild invited pfm's dad to his birthday dinner....manchild said that dad called him over to his grandfather and put manchild on the spot to ask him....so when i asked pfm about it, he said no he had nothing to do with it....so i call manchild into the room to clarify and then pfm says, ok i can see how he believes that...manchild says...whats to believe...its what happened...
and this happens most days....there is always something he lies about...i honestly believe he is a compulsive liar....
and even answering the question in the ic's office....he gave me lies...
and you can't change what you don't acknowledge...and he still swears up and down he doesn't lie....
and the biggest lies of all...he told me everything from all his cheating, which i know for a fact is a lie...because i found more and he has never admitted to any of it...if i didn't confront him about specifics he owned nothing....there was not a thing about all of it that he came to me on his own with...not one blessed thing...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 11:37 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]
After both my and my BH's busy day yesterday when we got into bed...I had my tablet and I asked him if he wanted to read what I had been writing on SI and the help/advice I got...he said sure and was VERY eager.
It started off badly when he read my first post and saw that I mentioned his A. He got loud and asked quite upset and angry why I have to mention that. He said it is because I am trying to "justify" what I did with my A. I just told him that I am not justifying but his A IS part of OUR history. He was still angry about it, so I told him to give me the tablet back and forget about SI. He told me no I am going to finish reading....so he did.
As he was reading he apparently read something that softened him and he motioned for me to come closer to snuggle into him, which I did and stayed there until he finished...at that point the last posting we read was MC Jack's (hello old friend by the way :-) ) ..and side note, yes I do believe A LOT of my BH's anger/resentment toward me is because he did think I was "the good girl" and he feels dupped...not because he walked away from other conquests but because he "chose incorrectly".
So my BH finished reading. We then talked for a bit. He said he doesn't want to feel sorry for himself and have a pity party, he wants to forgive me and he wants to be happy. Those are ALL good things. He then went on to say that my A was just a small mistake and he has to get over it. I stopped him right away I told him it IS NOT a SMALL thing, it was HUGE and it was completely and utterly wrong. I told him he can't just "get over it" and push it aside, that it will take A LOT of work. I told him to listen to the wise people here who have come so far and are good enough to pass on their wisdom in the paths you all have taken. I explained to my BH before he started reading that this was the LTA forum and every single person here is dealing with the betrayal of an LTA. The few times in the past that I have shown my BH posts on SI he often skips to the tag line first and comments on the fact that the A being discussed is "only a ONS or a 3 month A". I wanted my BH to realize that every single one of you have been in his shoes and have fought like hell to come to a place of healing, and even if you are not quite healed yet, your feet are still firmly planted on that path.
So where am I? I am somewhat hopeful, but not convinced. I told him he can't keep doing the same routine he has done for FOUR years. I explained to him that we have been here before...he gets distant and after about 9 times of him getting distant I can't handle it anymore so I get distant, however this time I am not distant I am strong and determined, that is definitely new for me. Regardless when my BH perceives me to "get distant" he withdraws some more, gets a little cold and then gets scared...we talk...he feels relieve and his brain "thinks" we got "past it"...and then he is in a happy place of relief for a few days...I told him this is our cycle and this "place of relief" WILL NOT last. He will sure as SH#@ be back in that distant place by next week UNLESS he changes HIMSELF and gets to work on himself.
So we ended the night making love...of course that makes him feel closer to me (he verbally said that last night)...as me him, but I know the road ahead of us is steep...lets see if he is willing to actually get in for once and drive the car.
I, too, am a BH of a wife who had a long term affair. And it was ugly - enough so that I don't even put the particulars in my profile.
For a long time I struggled with the hurt - not just the notion that this person who I had truly considered my soul mate could do this to me - but that someone I love could make THESE kinds of choices. How could it be possible? Why would I want to continue with someone like that?
Then it was the future - do I stay for my kids? Do I really want to be on my own and start life anew with some other, unknown woman or (frightfully) alone??
After about a year I made a conscious decision and it came about rather out of the blue - although, looking back, it was obvious.
I sat down on the couch one night next to my wife to watch tv and was looking at her while she read. I could see that, even though she wasn't thinking about the affair, she was different. The affair pained her to a place that was deep and unimaginable. Yes, I realized that even though the affair was her choice, she, too, bore the consequences. And, boy oh boy, was she sorry. I could see the remorse in her eyes - I could actually feel the pain she felt in her soul.
I have no doubt that she is utterly remorseful - shocked, in fact, that she could do something like she did. And I had to come to grips with the fact that we were BOTH hurting and that we BOTH needed to work together to heal. But only if we wanted it.
And you know what? I did. I DID want it. I looked at my wife that night as she looked up from her magazine and I saw in her eyes the woman who I fell in love with. The hands that I wanted to hold for the rest of my life. The woman who turned me on, whose voice was like silk in my ears, the woman who I truly wanted to be with forever.
I reached out and grabbed her hand - and she started to cry - she saw that I was in - all in - and that I wasn't going to let go.
Since then it has sometimes been a struggle. Look, getting past a LTA isn't easy. But I had to realize that being happy was on me. I wanted to make myself a better person so that I could live with MYSELF..... and guess what? My wonderful, beautiful, incredible wife has come along for the ride.
We are reconciling. Fully. And probably happier than we have EVER been. But it took me dragging myself out of a terrible hole and making the conscious decision to be happy. That was the first step.
RSEB, I hope your husband takes your hand tonight, looks into your eyes, and makes a decision that you are the one for him. Affair or no affair. That, at the end of the day, he will be a better man because he WANTS to be a better man - and the prize, YOU, is waiting.
I am rooting for you.
Good reading. Good progress.
As for me and Mr UKg, life goes on. My Mum died in early summer and we siblings are still dealing with her estate. We’ve only just got probate. And my FIL was diagnosed a few weeks ago with acute leukaemia. My IL’s don’t cope with crises well and fluctuate from the depths of despair (upon diagnosis) to kite flying highs (you can still go ahead with your February Diamond Wedding Anniversary plans). They live fairly close to my parents house, so I checked in on them when I was down sorting some of Mum’s stuff and Mr UKg and I went down last w/end. It’s a 6hr journey down and it’s taking a bit of a toll on me anyway, back and forth.
We’re booked to go to New Zealand to see DS29 & DS27 and taking DS25 and his gf and DS19. I’m hoping it can all go ahead. I had said to fWH that perhaps it would be the best time to tell the boys we are divorcing in the New Year. I didn’t go ahead as planned at the end of June because of Mum's death which was sudden and unexpected. I took the advice to not get divorced at that same time – and it turns out the advice was right. It has been incredibly, horribly stressful at times. We’re not that close as a family, but always worked well when it mattered. And there have been some angry incidents – I can’t be doing with it. I know it’s because we’re all grieving still. And now FIL is getting sick – what do I do? The answer is we’ll see. MOW has been out of the picture since Feb/March. I know she still lurks on the internet, there will come a point when I stop checking. But I do wonder if she will try contact if and when FIL dies. And I know fWH won't say anything if she does - he will lie by omission.
So, like iwam’s pfm, fWH lies. it is mostly by omission which has got him into trouble no end of times. But he tells straight lies too from time to time. He hasn’t learnt and still does it. And he still sits in the wings, inactive, making no promises or effort other than to “be here”. And when he has said things like that, my response has been “well, you were still physically here during the affair, so exactly what do you mean?” He has no answer.
He has done very little work on himself. We went to MC’ing for a couple of years, on and off. He read one ebook. He did me a timeline (lied). I gave him a 37page document and he picked out 5 things he was offended by. I called him the Wizard of Oz because he pretended to be one person and when I pulled back the curtain I found a stumbling, stuttering old man trying to keep his cover. He said he didn’t give me a STD….. Really? Oh and a couple of other things. But nothing that mattered. He was only concerned about things that put him in a bad light, not about our history or how my view on our marriage had changed or how we could move forward. No, just about him.
Well, enough rambling for now. There’s a lot of good stuff in here, people working things through. I’m not in a bad place, it’s okay for now. I'm reasonably happy, I like fWH’s company and that’s enough.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:38 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]
My wife has said on a few occasions recently that she really did not understand what marriage was...that she did not understand that she could have a role in making things better...that she has some weird view of and fear of intimacy. Strange...how can you be married for so long and be so clueless about what marriage is about? Attachment issues perhaps. And something to do with maturity...there are times I think I am married to an 11 year old.
LifeisC, thank you for the inspiring story.
rseb, as lic said, it does come down to a mental decision. Not an easy one obviously.
... story at work yesterday. I work at a company of about 275 folks, $100MM in revenue. Money flows through it like shit through a goose. Get an email from the president that we have discovered accounting irregularities...and that 'Kate' has been embezzling money...total loss $200K...scheme going on for 4 YEARs...and Kate was named employee of the year for 2012 for all her efforts and hard work and dedication. The trust that had been placed in her was enormous. At our executive mgmt. meeting, her boss, the Finance Director guy, broke down. I am shocked in remembering her standing up in front of the whole company at last years Christmas party accepting her award.
My WW remarked about not understanding yet how someone could so dramatically let themselves go...go down...
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:18 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]
UKGirl...I wanted to address your WH's lying issue...maybe give you some insight. I too am guilty of that lying, trying to hide the stupidest things out of a fear of how something would make me look. I lied about little things to the largest things obviously. I was living my life not even being honest about my sadness in my M. It is no surprise to me that my BH had NO CLUE as to how I felt. He was going through life thinking we were fabulous because he said I love you every night and we held hands where ever we went. I unfortunately wanted and needed an intimate connection with my BH and he didn't/doesn't know how to do it...and obviously either did I. Our skills were anything but healthy, and my lying didn't help and took our M to a place where we STILL may not recover from.
But your BH, he is still in the midst of it. He is still worried constantly..and I mean CONSTANTLY how he appears to others and what others are thinking of him. I was not even myself with the MOM....putting on a front for him as well. After the fog lifted and IC began I started to wonder who RSEB was anymore? I had to find my little voice and follow it...whether perceived as good or bad by others, I had to be true to me. I am more me now then I EVER have been, and that is a line I cling to now because going back scares me to death.
Your WH sounds to be VERY far away from answering to himself. It sounds to me as if he still cannot face what he has done. He can't face you and he cannot reconcile it within himself. I struggle everyday with my actions. How could I live in such a huge world of lies EVERY day for YEARS and convince myself that this is right and that it was okay?
I had detached from my true self and I have learned that that world cannot sustain/survive.
You need to continue to work on you and your children. Your WH is still floating around in his own world and only HE can stop the rotation.
[This message edited by RSEB at 9:13 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]
RPSE's H is far different than you, ATS, MC, Dip, 7years.. and most other men who are on SI.
Something that comes to mind is how we avoid or accept.
He is stuck. He avoids.. living his life empty perhaps.
Yes, it will take him wanting to get unstuck.
I see R as trying to lead him out.. An effort like Iwant once said when she watched a Dr Phil show.. she is attempting to make restituation... bring her M closer not tear it apart.. with behavoirs, words, by changing who they are..
Some men just don't... like the way UK, Allgood, and Iwant's H. They just don't know what to do. They don't seek it. It really is a choice.
R's H has a choice to make.. but he still avoids.. Avoid using that simple one word.
R.. Lead him to grow from being a boy to a man. He needs theropy because it way to hard to lead a man like this.. You pushed him and that was good. But he will make the final choice.
Sometimes, no matter how much we lead.. they will not follow.
I hope he goes and gets help because he wants it. He becomes open to it. He will get naked and expose who he is so those who know what the best his own happiness is will teach him.
Types of Men and how they adapt, what to learn, to change to be ideal.
- Those who are familiar and yet do not go into the details and change that are really needed. The know it all type.
- Those who dismiss it because of fears.
- Those who are lazy.
- Those who blame everything on others
- Those who are forced and because it is not their choice.. they are not adaptors
- Those who study, memorize, practice, implement, succeed, fail, work and study some more, apply some more, succeed some more, fail some more ... UNTIL it has become a core part of who they are and how they operate.
I am sure the men on this board follow that last bullet.
R, All you can control is to ask. Not force, but ask. If he does not want it.. nothing you can do but you take your own road.. of which he does not want to join. That is a woman of strenght.. a healthy woman.
I should add that a woman named Sister points out to me that there are no Gender differences.. I can listen and agree... I use men but I beleive Sister to perhaps say both men and women.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:44 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]
I have often thought that if our society passed a law that should a spouse be caught in infidelity, they are executed. I wonder how many people would then make the choice to cheat. Yes, a few would still do it.
Sex and love is that powerful.
My Son has a GF who has.. as he describes it.. Anxiety. Of course I too see it by her behaviors when she comes to our house. Her fears are great and are in many areas. Sure, she is beautiful is so man aspects. I know my son has it within himself to lead this woman in her life to a good place. It will not be easy. He must be that strong.
He got his first taste of something that happened to me so very often for years and years.
DD GF.. She stormed off…
DD. “Dad, I have no clue what that fucking bitch is mad at me for.”
Me, “Recognize who she is son. Open your eyes when dating, do not ignore this behavior.”
DD, “What do I do?”
Me, “You conflict with her. You tell her she is going to know when you don’t like what she does, you are going to let her know. She is going to also do the same to you. If not, this is not the woman you want or need. She is not going to use anger to manipulate you. Stop it. ”
He must have worked it out.
There is one poster whose threads you might find interesting...username: uncertainone. She has quite a penetrating insight, yet can be controversial and confrontational.
IMO.. there is nothing wrong with controversial and confrontational. With conflict comes resolution. And that may be different with each one of us. It provokes thoughts.. I suppose she hurt someone.
I heard something the other day.. the greatest lie ever told..
"Stick and stone will hurt my bones but names will never hurt me"
What a lie we were told.. I can remember my mom and grandma tellng me that.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:56 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]