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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[per IWAM:] there are waaay too many of us who were quality spouses to spouses who were crappy spouses and never did we ever consider cheating as an option....but according to you we would have been justified if we did...but ironically it was the crappy spouses who cheated on the quality spouses...


^^^I think according to tryn that faced with a crappy spouse you should have created a lot of conflict and pressure and eventually filed for D. Yes, if that was done timely, then the A would have been avoided (see, a divorce affair-proofs your marriage by ending it).

ah mc: the affair in my case and even a few others could not be avoided...why, because it began before i even met my ws....the only way in my case it could be avoided was to never become involved with my ws period!!!

but alas i could not know...as most of us...could not know...which is why we all have what we call a "d-day"....its what we do after d-day....there is no such thing as affair proofing a marriage...

on a side note....smoking....is not a selfish addiction....its an addiction plain and simple....as a former smoker...its not simple...its not easy to quit...i had a tremendous motivation and a very strong will....not that many people have that...especially the particular motivation...for me i found out i was pregnant so for me it was a no brainer and i put my will into it....my dad, didn't quit until 20 years after his second bypass surgery when the dr told him he had 6 months to live...thats when he finally quit...and just the other day i found out that my aunt was diagnosed with lung cancer...and guess what...she didn't quit...addiction is stronger then human will sometimes...you lose your will to the addiction...the addiction takes over!!!


hello decimated...good to "see" you, and no coffee is not gonna do it...you sound strong...its good to hear you strong!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwam, unfortunately for you as you know you married a piece of dogshit. That is just a crappy exception. When I think about things and theorize, I am keeping in mind the 99% not the terrible,unfair, and inexplicable 1%. There is nothing that is going to explain pfm being a piece of doodoo... basically stealing ones life away.

When you remove the sex addicts and serial cheaters, the typical pattern is: marriage malaise followed by cheater thinking an affair will 'help' things. Whether you read John Gottman or Peggy Vaughn, you read the same story.

My issue is with the malaise in the M pre-A and how I connected with it. I am more interested in learning about myself.

I see smoking as similar to affair addiction. Smoking is selfish: making your life shorter and more costly for loved ones. Why do you think that people in affairs are not similarly addicted - as Spring noted, there are a LOT of endorphins and brain chemistry changes going on - and you see folks throwing a good life away irrationally for a fix...and ultimately nothing.

I see LTAs especially as an addiction. Why don't you?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
iwantamiracle
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Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see LTAs especially as an addiction. Why don't you?

mc: no i don't....for several reasons...first off, not all affairs are created equal...people may be created equal, but they are all individuals...and each sich can be as similar or as different as the next one...i have been around long enough to "see" that...affairs generally have commonalities....but addiction...that may be true for some but not for all....

i believe the lta's happen and stay put sometimes because its habit..which is not the same as addiction...addiction is where you cannot live without it, or you feel you can't...habit is just something that can be broken or replaced...

some lta's happen out of fear...fear that the ws does not want to lose their family but wants the affair...

some lta's happen our of addiction....those are not usual though...if someone feels addicted to another person, generally they leave the bs to be with the ap

there is addiction to the thrill....addiction to the danger...then it doesn't matter the who for the ap...but if a ws finds an ap willing to be there and willing to be used...then so be it...then for the ws it becomes habit and easy

some lta's happen just because....

what do they all have in common....a ws who is broken somewhere within....a ws who is misguided in right and wrong...a ws who is a skilled liar....a ws who thought only of his ego needs above all else....a ws who never believed for the most part that (s)he would get caught...a ws who found excuses and justifications to continue the affair......there are many commonalities, but there are just as many differences...look at all of us here on lta forum...some of our stories strike chords with others and some of us can't fathom some others sich's....we all have those commonalities in each others stories...but all of our stories are different because we are all different people with different backgrounds, different foo....we all have issues, its how we were taught to deal with them by our parents, our peers, our teachers and life!!!

so in a very long winded explanation,...i dont believe that all or even most lta's are addiction.....

and speaking of addiction....i don't believe in most sex addiction cases....the "sex addiction" label is widely misused, and widely abused by abusers...ws's who think it buys them an out...pfm tried that one...as well as a few other...

ok....need to get some sleep...its quite late here and i have work waay early tomorrow..

nite tribe..

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
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Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading back through the recent posts I think that one of the problems may be terminology.

I think that using the words" not quality and not attractive" may not be the best choice to use to describe the BS who often already feel 'less than', beaten down and emotionally raw.

Very often the BS is physically very attractive and of very high character. So, to say they were not quality does seem like a slap in the face.

I do 'get' somewhat how MCJack was using those terms in his post. Saying that if we were 'quality' some of us should have kicked our WS to the curb long before they cheated and for that reason we would not have had to endure the pain of infidelity on top of everything else.

That was certainly the case for me. My FWH was not an ideal husband due to the fact that he was a functional alcoholic throughout the marriage.
I had considered divorce many times and this issue had caused problems for us for many years.
And yes, the LTA was the cherry on top.
I should have kicked him out years earlier before his selfishness and lack of self control had reached epic proportions but I did not.

But...would you say that the reason that I did not divorce my alcoholic husband years earlier was because I was not a quality person? or an attractive person?

I think that these words to describe a BS is what so many find offensive.

You could say that I was misguided,young and inexperienced in life, not strong enough or overly forgiving etc. etc.
So I was not this strong , all knowing person.
And maybe I did not have high enough expectations for my marriage.

But not quality?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack

I see LTAs especially as an addiction. Why don't you?

I agree with Miracle - I see it as more of a habit than addiction. Brain chemicals, hormones etc play a role in many human actions. Doesnt mean our poor decisions/actions are outside of our control. THe issue with calling LTAs an addicition is that it shifts the blame away from the wrongdoer and places it on "the disease".

Its about accountability. I would say to the extent my WS learned anything about what contributed to his actions its that he grew up in a family where he didnt have to answer to anyone. That contributed to a lot of conflict in our M.

As far as my M is concerned, in hindsight, I see where I contributed to the malaise of the marriage, but I also see how my actions were related to WS's actions. After the A was discovered I tried to change my actions (basically nagging WS or being annoyed at him for his failure to participate in the family in a significant way) and the HB also took care of his other complaint (which if he had helped with the kids more & I wasnt totally exhausted at the end of each day,wouldve happend more in the M pre-A) but it changed nothing.

And, to be honest, it really just pissed me off that my emotional needs as a result of DDay were going unmet & I was able to make changes within myself while he just kept up the pre-DDay status quo. I would've never been able to keep up with what Tryn suggested.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
DecimatedHeart
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Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, to be honest, it really just pissed me off that my emotional needs as a result of DDay were going unmet & I was able to make changes within myself while he just kept up the pre-DDay status quo.

^THIS!!!!

After D-day, I jumped on that bandwagon. I did everything I could to focus on fixing everything about myself he ever complained about. And he just found new and increasingly lame things to complain about, because I have to be the bad guy to assuage his guilt. Meanwhile, he has changed NOTHING. Not the things he needed to fix prior to the A, and not his wayward behavior.

It has left me feeling better about myself, but increasingly angry that he never put in the same effort. I realize now that even if I had made those changes pre-A, it wouldn't have mattered. I continue to work on myself, but I no longer do it for him. I do it for me.


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
Blobette
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Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just out of morbid curiosity, I had a look at the survey Tryn posted.

OMFG

Here's a sample question: "Wives need a man who will allow her to be the bread winner and he can enjoy life as he sees fit?"

Many of the questions are barely literate and grammatically incorrect. I would be very surprised if the person who wrote it had a graduate degree, and if so, that it was from a reputable institution. Not to mention the fact that the wording of the questions violates most rules about survey design. (I'm a stickler on this as it was one of my special topics for my PhD comprehensive exams.)

Tryn, I'm curious: what ARE this guy's credentials? What is the ostensive purpose of the survey?

[This message edited by Blobette at 10:14 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
ReunitePangea
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Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just out of morbid curiosity, I had a look at the survey Tryn posted.

I had looked at it yesterday too and was quite suprised how framed the questions were to get to the conclusion they wanted. After reading the survey the conclusions being drawn are not that shocking.

I will say in it all it is never black and white in things like this. I do think there is a point to Tryn's message but unfortunately it all gets lost in the over the top interpretation of it all. We should all try to be the best person we can be. If you are quality to your spouse, I would agree that statistically there is a smaller chance your spouse will cheat. I will also say that if you ignore the broken qualities of your WS the chances they will cheat again goes up. Nothing is guarenteed though so it is also good that you prepare yourself to deal with what life with throw at you. Anyone that wants to think it is ALL this or ALL that is more than likely going to miss something important.

[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 8:54 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...I think that one of the problems may be terminology
^^^yep the limitations of communication...I see the quality issue as one of self-care and self-respect...nothing to do with external comparisons...so perhaps I see these as meaning something different than tryn' does...

I see LTAs especially as an addiction. Why don't you?

about affair feelings and addiction...all the authoritative texts on infidelity - esp. Glass, Spring - refer to the addictive nature of the feelings rush and significantly, the withdrawal difficulty of extracting oneself from getting those highs. There is even a Withdrawal Survival Guide on Wayward for example. I get that iwam, honest, and others have cases of extreme pathological callousness on their hands...but I agree with the many infidelity authors that connect it with addiction.

Why do addictions exist? Aside for the 'disease' component - which I gather to mean a biological determinism - addictions exist as coping mechanisms to the stresses, anxieties, and disappointments in life - whether the 'hit' is to get by the for the moment or something to look forward to, it still drives emotional and cognitive distortions. E.g. re-writing marriages, willingness to through a good thing away, irrational assessments of risk and relationships, etc. all from brain chemistry changes. And, IWAM, I can assure you that many WSs "feel you can't" live without the 'drug'.

I have written on here (and others too if I recall) about the similarities between bulimia and LTAs: unlike anorexia, bulimia involves endorphins and other addictive brain chemistry issues. One feels down, anxious, bored, whatever - and one binges to feel better - then one purges - and now doctors note that the body produces 'feel-good' chemicals after throwing up. So are there not similarities between stealing away to the bathroom to purge once a day and then coming out all smiles (a mask of shame) and sneaking away for that important text message?

So when I look at my WW as a recovering addict, I do not see a victim of a 'disease', I see something different, perhaps something more dangerous...so hence the emphasis on 'quality' in my sense of the term...

As far as my M is concerned, in hindsight, I see where I contributed to the malaise of the marriage
^^^Allgood, I was very specific in my terms - I used the word 'connected' not 'contributed' - and sure, I contributed - because I am very interested in my reactions (or lack thereof) to the malaise however it came about.

Allgood, D-heart,

it really just pissed me off that my emotional needs as a result of DDay were going unmet & I was able to make changes within myself while he just kept up the pre-DDay status quo
^^^that to me would be so very difficult, especially if NC or transparency were not in place. It's one thing to be scared to dig deep, it's worse to pretend there is no reason to, and not doing NC or transparency is the worst because it is a slap in the face. You ladies that have been bullied by the latter, I do not know how you have pulled through...

Happy Friday!

By the way, so I lost my election, , but I have a lot of meetings next week... to decide whether to run for a State office next year - I had so much fun this past fall...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just out of morbid curiosity, I had a look at the survey Tryn posted.
Me, too, Blobette. I actually tried to answer some of the survey, however, I had to stop because these were the choices given:
TRUE
FALSE
I DON'T KNOW
They had no: "THESE QUESTIONS ARE FUCKED UP SO I CAN'T ANSWER" choice.

I see where you learned to couch what you say, Tryn. The word "need" instead of "want" or vice versa. As I said, whatever your therapist uses, it seems very skewed to me. This survey proves to me my point.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8987 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
honesttoafault
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Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


sorry, double post

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:01 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
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Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[per honest:]problem is that with sociopaths, emotional abusers, and NPD's being quality is what attracts them! They are masters of manipulation. Perhaps I was not quality enough for ME and had enough self esteem to really see the red flags
.
^^^no and yes. Sociopaths find weakness and exploit it, so no quality does not attract them IMO. Yes, it is about quality (for you) seeing red flags and getting NPD out of your life.


Reading back through the recent posts I think that one of the problems may be terminology.
I think that using the words" not quality and not attractive" may not be the best choice to use to describe the BS who often already feel 'less than', beaten down and emotionally raw.

Very often the BS is physically very attractive and of very high character. So, to say they were not quality does seem like a slap in the face

Ahhhhhh!!!

This thread really shows how dialogue can help solve issues!!

Thank you NJgal!!!! That is exactly the problem: the terminology. The connotation of "quality" and "not quality" gives one the feeling of not being good, that we are not of good character or good people. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would associate the term "quality" to being faithful, honest, caring, loyal, morals, giving, etc.

But, the term, as Tryn and Jack are using it, seems to be so much more, and thus the confusion.
"To thine own self be true"
Jack: When I said that NPD's and sociopaths are attracted to quality, I guess I meant a good person who is willing to be understanding and giving, etc.
But you are right. They also sense a weakness in there too, whether it's low self esteem, a naivity that everyone is good, a willingness to give above and beyond the call of duty, etc.

Do we pehaps mean "healthy" or well-balanced or mature instead of quality? Healthy in the sense that we won't allow ourselves to be abused, and use dialogue to let the other know that the behavior hurts and is not acceptable? Not by putting up with it to a point that we blow up and yell? We try to communicate in a way that the other will listen and not be defensive. No matter how righteous our annoyance and anger and hurt is, if we attack, it's human nature to respond defensively. and if that doesn't work, then there are consequences? I know the problem with that, is that we may be unwilling to enforce those consequences out of fear of the outcome.

Perhaps this means that we, as individuals, should always be striving to be the best we can be. That growing and maturing doesn't stop once we reach physical adulthood and this should be done whether or not we are BS's, WS's, single, in a happy marriage or not?

A wise friend told me that sometimes life gets in the way of moving forward. We get so used to surviving the day to day living of working, commuting, child rearing, that we are not really truly living and growing. Not really living life to its fullest, but just surviving.

I would ask, for the sake of our family here that we use a term other than "quality"? I think I know what Jack and Tryn are trying to say now about it. I still don't agree that one can "affair proof" a M, but I do agree with what Allgood, 7years, and Jack (am I missing someone?)that it may be possible to cut down the odds. That one "quality"/"healthy"/"mature"/"wise" person who acts in a healthy way may teach the other( who is semi-normal) by example how to communicate?

Just a crazy example: DS15 was asking about buying a BB gun, and I said no way, I didn't want to discuss it. He answered by saying why I wouldn't hear him out? Why couldn't we discuss it and me to hear his reasons? I told him he was right, I shouldn't have shut him down like that and we can discuss it.

Where did he learn to want to communicate like that in a healthy way?

I did teach him that along the way.

Do we have to be responsible to show by example how to communicate with our spouses? NO, we are responsible to only to ourselves to communicate in a healthy way with EVERYONE, including our spouses. If they can't reciprocate, that is where a lot of us may have gotten in trouble. We put up with it and made excuses for them: "They're tired, they worked hard, they're in a bad mood", etc.

But I'm realizing as I write this, that I have been saying to DS18 when he sometimes is cranky and talks angrily: "I know you are tired and have been working hard, etc. but that doesn't give you the right to talk to me like that. It doesn't excuse bad behavior. Let me know you are not feeling well, and we'll talk later."

Respect ourselves and expect and demand respect back....

As a teacher, I learned that once you "lose" a class (lose control of behavior) it's hard to get it back. As a veteran teacher, I learned that you have to jump on inappropriate behavior immediately and not let it go, CONSISTANTLY.

And somehow, along the way, I allowed disrespect from WH (perhaps not in the way he spoke, but in suspicious behavior, lying, use of the silent treatment (for days/weeks), letting him have his sense of entitlement), but these things built up slowly over the years, that it became the norm.

Miracle: yes there is a difference between addiction/habit, but the LTA may be a combination of the two. I do get that a short term A is an addiction, but the LTA has become a way of life and can also be an addiction in a sense in addition to habit.

DH: It's good to see you. I have been thinking about you. You sound much stronger and I am so glad you are working on you. The blameshifting and gaslighting that a WS gives to a BS can be such torure. We are already devastated and we want to find out the cause of the trauma and even start to believe the nonsense that gets spewed at us. Human nature over the centuries have always tried to find a reason for the troubles in the world and would come up with all kinds of explanations for trouble: the was an evil spell, the spirits are unhappy, etc. So the unremorseful WS tries to use his powers of blame to focus the blame from themselves onto you which is kick to someone who is already down.

Coffee isn't enough to heal our wounded souls. Typical abusive behavior: hurt you and then give you something to say, "see how good I am to you? You should be happy and grateful!"

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:10 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well honest..

I still don't agree that one can "affair proof"

I am going to say that I changed my mind.. Affair proof is way too absolute.

RP..

I will say in it all it is never black and white in things like this.

Well I know that.. but those simple things you might be suprised.. The common man just stop doing those things after time and our mask come off.

Let's look at ridicule. That is a behavoir that certianly does not bring someone closer in a marraige does it? Yet people do it to there spouses. After years of that.. and one spouse has lunch, spend time with a co-worker and they start sharing personal stuff.. about what they don't like about thier spouse... The co-worker agrees that is bullshit.. starts pumping your spouse up with sweet talk stuff you are not giving them.. a flirt.. guess what happens?

Of course.. I do believe you all.. Nothing you could have done differently. I'm not being sarcastic either.. I truly mean it. That was not the case for me.


No Blobette.. I quickly wrote those questions.. Not a PhD. That was my first ever survey! I didn't have time to spend hours on that. I need you guys to help me write answers... and sister yes.. we may or may not "want" it all..But if someone did all wouldn't that be great? I get not all women need the same.. It does not mean we "need" it all... but if you works at all you know to be the best person you can be, the reciprocity will be returned.

Yes they are simple leading questions. But all behaviors that women would want to have.. My theropist says don't miss any.. Womenneed them all.. be a complete man.. fear knowone.


So I challenged my theropist.. Shirley Glass says that a person can have a perfectly happy M and still get into an affair. He said true.. but he thinks it is rare. I also mention that she say affair proof is a myth. Prevention myth.. He says there are irrational people. He says that he speaks about the common husband and what he will do or not do to push his W away. I am the common man.

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:59 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
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Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

great post Honest - your voice is now coming through so strong!!


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think where I am at today...

I don't have any emotions over what my W did. I just don't care. The last emotion I had concerning her A was back over the summer when I saw the OM up close. It just doesn't hurt any more. I can watch my OM on a TV commercial and when he says.."I care about you" I think, yeh right. I pass his office and might not even notice today. I can stay at the hotel chain with not much thought. I can think about what my wife did all the time.. It brings me no bad feelings.
I can watch cheating show and only think, that is going to hurt them. It's kinda like the way I feel about my W. She screwed up. All my feelings toward my W are very good. I don't fear her any more.. she can go have another A if she wishes.. her choice. I won't hurt like that ever again.

I know how I got here... Oh I hope you all find your peace in the best way you know.

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:56 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
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Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He says there are irrational people

Aren't the vast majority of WS irrational thinkers during an A?

Is it rationale thinking to think that now way will they ever get caught? Is it rationale thinking to think the short term ego boost is worth the long term consequences of their actions?

Shirley Glass says that a person can have a perfectly happy M and still get into an affair. He said true.. but he thinks it is rare.

Perhaps my situation is rare. The more I read though it sounds like many people's situations are unique.


Let's look at ridicule. That is a behavoir that certianly does not bring someone closer in a marraige does it? Yet people do it to there spouses. After years of that.. and one spouse has lunch, spend time with a co-worker and they start sharing personal stuff.. about what they don't like about their spouse... The co-worker agrees that is bullshit.. starts pumping your spouse up with sweet talk stuff you are not giving them.. a flirt.. guess what happens?

Based on the many stories that I have read here - My guess is the spouse that is doing the ridicule, is the one having the affair.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aren't the vast majority of WS irrational thinkers during an A?

I think he refers to NPD..evil people.

My guess is the spouse that is doing the ridicule, is the one having the affair.

Yes we were minipulated. Ridicule is a form of minipulaion.

I think you get me perfectly.

Peace out!

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:06 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Blobette
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Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I'm in that rare category, too. To this day, my DH has never blamed the affair on me or the state of our marriage. He insists that we have a great marriage. Of course, it could be better, and we're working on that. But the A had nothing to do with the state of our marriage. It was about 1) him being selfish and taking me for granted 2) his ability to compartmentalize, based on his FOO issues, and 3) his inability to deal with the strong emotions that being infertile plus MLC led to. Re (3) I PUSHED him to talk about this with me. I PUSHED him to go to a therapist about this. There is literally nothing more I could have done.

I have never ridiculed my DH. I grew up in a family where disrespect is routine and I never wanted to live in an environment like that again. I have always been kind and loving to him. I have showered him with affection, physical and verbal.

Sure I could be better in some ways. But honestly -- we need to be perfect so that our partners don't cheat on us? That's absurd and it sets an unrealistic standard for us to meet. Yes, I have always made my spouse's happiness a priority, but is that the central concern in my life? -- sorry, no. Healthy people are responsible for their OWN happiness. I want to improve myself for myself, not because I'm scared my WH will cheat on me if I don't. And good marriages are about loving each other even when the other person isn't perfect. We can love the strength in another, but we can also help them with their weaknesses, too. And I should be able to feel secure in my marriage even if I do have areas of weakness. My WH's belief that underlying it all is love and a genuine willingness to accomodate his needs and his POV should be enough, even if I fail sometimes.

I really think that Tryn isn't listening when we all tell him how we gave, gave, gave and our WSs took, took, took. This may be out of his own guilt that he wasn't (by his own admission) and ideal husband before his wife cheated. This may be true of him, but he has no reason to assume that it's true of the rest of us.

I could continue but gotta go. It's nice to see that so many of you are getting stronger by the day... I see wonderful changes in you!


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette-
Excellent post!

My FWH was similar to your's in that he never blamed me for the LTA. In fact, co-workers and friends of his who later found out about the affair were astonished because they said he always spoke very highly of me.

After D-day my FWH immediately threw the MOW under the bus and vowed that he never loved her, never even cared about her and that he loved only me.

When I asked him how he would have described our marriage to others during the LTA years....he said that he would have said he was happily married.

But.... and this is a big but... I think that in my FWH's case he decided that he needed to escape some of the malaise and hum drum of every day life-hence, the drinking and the affair.

He never wanted to leave the marriage.

So for years it was drinks with the guys after work but then when this new MOW/co-worker/drinking buddy came on the scene and offered up the option of an affair he had no trouble taking her up on the offer.

Now, years after d-day he is 100% sober and sees his life very differently.
He does not see his every day married life as hum drum at all! He is very grateful for all that he has.

Same life, same wife-totally different perspective.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
NewCompass
♂ New Member
Member # 41319
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all, I'm new here but been through hell -n- back. I'm working my way through recovery and can offer a lot of "been there" for any that may need to vent or question where I am. This is my first post so comments are welcomed.


Me (FWS) 56
W - 54
D Day - 12/12
Married 29 years
3 children / 2 college grads

Posts: 5 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Savannah, GA
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