Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: SoCalBoy (43217)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, good post. I often see people post on SI saying that there should be "consequences", but seldom say what they should be. You suggested REAL "do-able" consequences.

DH: Setting the boundaries are hard, because we often don't know what consequences should be. Also, sometimes we are afraid to set consequences because we are afraid to follow through and may not be ready to face the WS's reactions, like yelling, blameshifting, and them possibly leaving. We have to be ready for the contigencies.
I've seen it said on SI that you have to be ready and willing to give up the M in order to save it. I understand that now.
It gets to a point that the status quo is no longer bearable. Something has to change. If the WS is not willing to change, you have to go on.

For me, I think I'm getting at the root of why I'm having so much trouble moving on. xWH#1 had said that I was afraid of being alone and I kept saying to myself that I was always alone. He was NEVER home between his working at night, drinking in bars and constantly playing softball. I was virtually a single mom. I took care of everything. Now, it's the same thing. Since before DDay, I've been virtually a single mom, taking care of everything including home repairs, painting, cleaning, back yard work including taking care of and cleaning the pool, taking care of him and his surgeries, etc.

I kept saying to myself: I am alone! How can I be afraid?

But I've finally dug deep enough. It's not being alone per se. I can be alone and keep myself busy. But it's the abandonment issues that I have that runs VERY deep. Emotional abandonment from childhood that paralyzes me. Now, I have to figure out how to deal with that with my therapist.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honesttoafault..
I sound like you are headed in the right direction. You have given in much thought.

You want to be single and not have your H in your life. He brings you little value.
Today, you are M and benefiting only with financial support.

You can make the choice to continue and it is not wrong for doing so. Iwant and Allgood makes that choice and they have some peace with that path. In time, they I know they will seek a greater peace.

I have given much thought to “wanting” to do something but find execution very difficult. Step one is always “wanting” it.. step two is “execution”. Step two is always the hard part.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: I did want my M to continue, but am finding I cannot go on like this. If I was able to detach emotionally and not care, perhaps I could continue in the sitch. But NPD keeps upping the ante all the time and changing what I thought I could deal with.

I can't heal and go on when he keeps hurting me.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest: did you or do you want your marriage to continue in the state its in now...because thats your new reality...or really not so new anymore....

it would be one thing if your ws was working on your marriage...the one he has with you...but instead he chose and continues to choose to have both marriages...and that will never change...with exception to adding yet another wife in the future...

you still continue to hold on...so i ask you this...

what is it that you are holding on to??? what is it that you are holding on to that is real? what is it that you are holding OUT for???? and will you ever recieve what you seek?

will you ever recieve any of what you seek? have you since this entire shitstorm hit recieved any of what you sought? and words do not count....have there been any "real" actions?


7years: so the spiked cocoa is all you wanted in the new house here?? you're easy!!


tryn: yay on your win!


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((honest))))

and YES, YES YES you can heal.....you need to choose to heal and then you need to take steps towards healing your heart

you have this huge capacity to give....please turn that onto yourself dear heart and give yourself the ultimate gift of self-love, love yourself enough....

you have been through so much, isnt it time to stop going torturing yourself....

everyday do something completely and solely for YOU....whether it be journalling, taking a walk on the beach, a massage....anything...feed your soul, and feed your heart with self love...it will help you heal!!!


(((honest)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone, It has been quite a long time since I posted in the LTA. I have been looking over SI for the past hour figuring where to post and I feel in my gut I should post here. It is good to see that all of you are still here in this small corner of SI and I am glad you are all still flourishing and if not at the moment, you are getting great support from everyone here.

For those of you who don't know me I am a FWW, I had a 6 year LTA, my complete story is in my profile. My BH and I have been in R four years now, although my BH is still "stuck".

So to update I thought for a while now that there were glimpses of hope. My BH would say a few things that made me feel as if he were moving forward, but lately I have left those feelings wash over me again that my LTA was a deal breaker for my BH, but he won't end our M.

I went to my IC session again last night, she is also our MC and knows my BH better then anyone besides I do. My BH does not lean on or rely on anyone else in RL. In fact his sisters who he barely speaks to and his best friend do know about my A, but they think it was only 3 months. I was willing to tell them, but my BH didn't want anyone to know, he still doesn't. So I went to IC and we spoke about my BH. I have tried to do everything I can to make my BH feel safe, loved and cherished. I have held him time and time again. I have posted here, I have read books, I have done the IC and begged and sometimes achieved getting my BH to go to MC with me...yet my BH is still stuck. So I had a good session last night, and unfortunately I am very sad because I know I cannot make my BH heal and I am facing reality that our M is broken.
Our MC/IC has said she has never come across someone as black and white as my BH, it is hard for him to accept/see and grey. She tried to help him see other POV, and it may sink in for a minute or two, but by the next MC session he comes to, which may be 3 weeks or 2 months later, depending on my BH mood, he is back to square one.

So when I got home last night my BH and I talked. I told him our M isn't working, he shuts me out, he is very robotic in his actions etc etc. He got loud for a bit and his anger came through again...."MY W F'D ANOTHER MAN FOR SIX YEARS"..."YOU RIPPED OUT MY HEART, I AM DEAD INSIDE I PUT ON A GOOD SHOW, GO TO WORK DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO, BUT I AM DEAD INSIDE"...that was the jist of what he was saying. I asked him if he believed everyone deserved a second chance...not just a chance where he would be taking a risk, but with me...someone who has shown remorse, has worked on bettering myself, has established good boundries, has been completely transparent, has worked on not being passive in our M as hard as that is/was for me...and he said "AFTER WHAT I DID TO HIM I DON'T DESERVE HIS LOVE"...he said I should keep working my ass off...it could be another four, sight or twelve years and then MAYBE he will change his mind and think I deserve to have him/be happy.

Is all of this screaming that my LTA was a deal breaker for him? I know you all would know best how to advise me. I know I am tired, I know in my gut I feel his distance almost all the time. I know my LTA does not define me, but I try so often in my mind to reverse our roles. I wonder if my mind, heart and soul would still be in tact after such a horribly selfish, trust smashing, spirit crushing act. My answer is still I don't know. I do know I "stuck around" after my BH's 2-3 year A he had with the same. OW before our M and we never discussed it and I know he told me to get over it or leave...and I stayed...and I did chose to M him. My BH says it is different because he did not break any vows, but I don't think he can even see that he did break my heart.

I feel as if he is still stuck IN DDay, actually I feel he is stuck at about 8 months to a year after DDay, when reality set in for him...and he hasn't taken a step since then. It is as if he is sitting in the middle of wreckage, after a grenade has gone off and he is still sitting in that same spot. He still has a ringing in his eyes from the explosion and all my words and actions are not being heard. He sees and feels the shrapnel...he is thirsty and hungry, yet can't bring himself to accept any help from me, since I am the one who pulled the pin.

He does not rely on anyone, he never has. He keeps everyone at a distance, I was the one he let in, but even that wasn't healthy, but he doesn't see that because in his minds eye, I was his everything. I do realize with everything I am that he believes that, and I know he loved me, I was his world, but when I did or do now tell him my needs, he takes it personally as if he is "not good enough", which I have learned is due to his FOO. Our MC says too that he takes EVERYTHING so personally, as an attack. That makes it very hard to have a discussion without his defenses rising.

I feel lost, and now I feel like I've rambled completely out of control. Thank you for listening...it was a very long night.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB.. It is amazing that YOU popped in my head just last night as I was driving home from a business dinner. It was.. I wonder how you were doing as I was listening to 131 on Sirius radio.

Here are my thoughts...

I have learned from the fine folks on this thread this.. Not Everything Is Forgivable


You are not going to be forgiven while around your H. Can you accept this?


Let’s start with this..I know you repented months ago because of your openness.


The qualities of repentance, getting back on track, are the four R's.
- The first is responsibility: We must recognize that we have done wrong.
- The second is regret: We must have true remorse for doing wrong and for the pain and problems we've caused.
- The third is resolve: We must be committed never to repeat the act regardless of the temptations or situation.
- The fourth and probably the most difficult is to repair the damage we've done, or at least do what we can to apologize directly to the injured party.


You have been in the forth stage for a long time. Months and months. You have done your best. No matter how much you do, I seriously doubt your H has it within himself to forgive you. Can you accept this? It is OK to have had enough.


RSEB.. Please you can give yourself a gift.. Forgive yourself. What does that mean?
- You make a choice to no longer tell anyone your sin
- Be pleasant to YOU.
- If conversation ensues, say things, feel things, which will set you free from guilt. “It was my past.. today I love myself and who I am.”
- Feel good about Yourself.. “I am beautiful today. I am stronger by learning from my mistake.. never to be repeated again.. I will teach my children never to jeopardize their own peace.. I will be a giver to people.. I enjoy the beach and sunshine“
- Protect Yourself from your greatest fear. “I do not fear being single.. I do not fear anyone trying to make me feel guilty from my past, I do not fear my past, it happen and I am different, I do not fear an angry man trying to control me.”
- Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year, and next.
- Say a prayer for yourself.. Inner strength.

You will know you have forgiven yourself when you heart tells you.

You should not love someone in your M if they are not loving you in the right way. Love is a choice. You worry about YOU and let him worry about himself. You take personal Responsibility about YOU.. YOU make this about YOU and let him make this about HIM.

Now.. the way I see it today is this.. Make him feel the pain of END.


End your M. It will be a process and take a few months. Sometimes, when a man is faced with the pain of end, it will change a rigid soul. You tell him I am ending our M by YOUR choice, not mine. I have tried my best to lead you back into happiness but YOU choose the opposite. You Choose to not love me nor learn how to love someone who betrayed you. I am filing for D. If you make a commitment 100% to get your head back in this M, only then will I make the choice to love you again. Then, that day, YOU STOP LOVING HIM. No more laundry, he does his own. You ask him to move out. You be pleasant.. but you tell him this is his choice. Let him get angry. Do not argue. YOU 180 HIM.

This is NOT YOU breaking vows.. This is your H breaking his vow to you. You are just executing his choice. Be Strong… You are not a bad woman. You M a man who is unable to forgive. Life is not fair.


[This message edited by trynhard at 8:07 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB: Hi! It's good to see you again. If I remember correctly, you were completely remorseful from the get go. If there was TT, blameshifting, etc on your part in the beginning, I could see your BH still having some trouble at this point, but from what I remember you telling us, this was not the case. It seems like your BH is stuck in the anger stage.

It has been said on SI that it can take anywhere from 3-5 years or more to get over the betrayal of an A, and perhaps even longer from an LTA.

As a BS, the only thing I could say, is that I would have to make the decision to R. That being said, I would have to work, BUT, and that is a big BUT, it would take a long time to heal. I would still have to go through the grief process. I would have good days, and days when there were many triggers and I might lash out.

I believe the crucial point is that your BH needs to decide if he wants to R or not. If he does, he needs to work too, but there are still going to be times, even 4 years later that a trigger may hit him an he will lash out. He has deep anger.
If he decides to R, perhaps you guys should set a rule: you will listen to anything the other has to say, but you will try to be respectful when you talk. If he said "I FEEL after what you did to me you don't deserve my love" has a different tone to it. It's the feeling that he has at the moment in anger, but maybe not all the time.

RSEB, I know a lot of BS's would love if our WS was remorseful like you. Don't give up yet.

ETA:
Tryn: We were cross posting :)
RSEB: Tryn has made many good points. I think the crucial point that he and I are trying to make, (although in different ways) is that your BS needs to make a choice to R and start acting on it even though he may still have struggles.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 8:28 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rseb: i have been somewhat reticent in responding to your posts...many times i would have written a post only to delete before i submit....

you are a madhatter....wherein you were not alone in your indiscretions, yours was one of an extreme nature....you made the choice to do what you did knowing full well how it feels....and he handed you a line of bullshit....it does not matter that you had made vows...cheating is cheating...

granted once married he claims that he saw it as wrong, so i guess that would be one for him....but to keep count would also be ridiculus...

anyways...i too am as black and white as someone could be...and i may not see grey but i do "see" much...

and as for your bs....i am torn...first...he has a lot of nerve after cheating on you and telling you take it or leave it to turn around when you cheated and tell you its different...just because you were married when you chose to cheat...

anyways,,,,all of it is moot....he is showing you who he is...he is telling you that this is how it will be....he is not willing to be "married" to you...he is just not divorcing which is how alot of us do feel....so you face the choice...do you continue or do you believe that this is all there will be...

your bs was never held accountable for his actions yet he holds you accountable for yours...but he doesnt' just hold you accountable...he seems to have put you on this pedistal of sorts...he cheated and you forgave him, or so he thought....and it would seem that because you moved on from what he did, he put you on this pedistal...one of do as i say and not as i do....

bottom line here....you should still continue to do the work....on YOU...whether or not you choose to continue to work on the marriage...but from the sound of it your bs is not willing to work on it at all...he attends mc but i get the sense that he attends only because he is looking for you to fix it all and has no idea if you can or will be able too....

while i believe the person who puts the relationship in the ditch needs to be the one to dig it out....is it you who really put it there being as he had his affair first....

i think because i am so black and white i have all of this hesitancy in responding to you....while i believe you should work your ass off to fix it if thats what he needs or wants....he should have done the same when he cheated....

at the very least he needs to understand that his actions back then i am sure have had some impact on your choices....but that is unlikely

i am sure that if you loved him then his betrayal put you through the ringer....one does not just "get over" betrayal.....you learn to move past it....there is a difference...because its always there in the background...and for you i would think it came to the foreground when you chose to cheat...

and then on that hand...YOU CHOSE TO CHEAT knowing fully well how it feels for that betrayal....

i am ramblin here and im sorry i know you seek answers....and there really aren't any...

bottom line...decide if he is worth you living like this....while it may change inthe future it may not change at all

so look at your sich 5 years from now....what choices will you wish you would have made....look at every possible outcome....which choices will give you the least regret and possibly no regret....and always remember life is shorter then we believe....and time moves rapidly....i do not know if you have children and what kind of life the 2 of you have....

only you can choose what you can live with and what you can't....and if you choose to stay and continue to work on it...all of your choices would need to reflect that....not that you turn around and make other choices what would have you turn away from the marriage but because you choose to stay to use it as an excuse to justify more bad behavior

again do i hit submit..this time i think i will....i do wish i could give you answers...but only you can come up with the answers you can live with...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey RSEB, i'll repeat again what I said many months ago. I commend you on your efforts at showing true remorse, working on your issues, and making genuine change. I wish my WS had put forth a fraction of the effort you put forth. I am sorry things aren't where you would like them to be in your M. I also wanted to thank you for the help you gave me a few years ago when I was trying to understand my situation better and my WW better. My M is over but people like you give me hope for the future, kind of a restore my faith in humanity deal. Even though people make mistakes some of them actually bust their ass trying to fix their mistakes. As always take what applies, if any, and leave the rest. I truly hope you and your BH can find some peace at some point whether it's together or apart.

My BH says it is different because he did not break any vows, but I don't think he can even see that he did break my heart.
Betrayal is betrayal. What your BH did is in fact no different than what you did. This a Pot and Kettle scenario. IMO I think one of his underlying issues is that he blames himself for your A and can't bring himself to work through that. Many BS's blame themselves for the A but at some point we get to the "it was 100% on the WS" to make that choice to have an A. If we don't move past the self blame part it gets pretty brutal and I think deep down your BH still believes that and he doesn't realize it. I could be wrong but at a minimum never addressing his A is still an issue and shows he copes by rugsweeping. The problem is he has tried but he isn't having any success rusweeping your A away which is why he is stuck.

Whatever you BH's own personal FOO issues, bad coping skills, or hangups are you can't force him to address any of those issues he has to want to address them. No matter what my STBXWW did during her A my OWN issues directly impacted how I dealt with her A's. I was able to heal and move forward after I started focusing on me and resolving my own issues and it doesn't seem like your BH is able to do that which means he remains stuck on "you did this to me RSEB" vs "you did this to me RSEB but I am trying to move forward" whether it's together or apart. And there is a difference between the initial shock of DDay and the next year or even few years versus reality setting in and getting to the point where even the most stubborn BS starts to realize THEY have to change themselves regardless of what the WS does. (I was one of the stubborn ones)

he said I should keep working my ass off...it could be another four, sight or twelve years and then MAYBE he will change his mind and think I deserve to have him/be happy.
IMHO, the issue is no longer you. It's him. His happiness is not contingent upon you and your actions. You can have an influence on them but his happiness is completely in his power to control and always has been. This applies to you as well. You can work your butt off for 25 more years but if he never actually addresses his problems then NOTHING will change at all. He will still be unhappy. It's one of the reasons I did choose to file. My happiness couldn't be contingent upon what my STBXW did or didn't do. I had to follow my own path and she could choose to walk in the same directions or go her own way.

If the ultimate goal is R and there is a truly remorseful WS involved then at some point the BS HAS to focus on healing. Actually whether the goal is to R or not the BS has to focus on healing themselves at some point. Your BH doesn't seem to be able to take any steps towards healing himself. You can't do that lifting for him. I know the tools were available to him because you provided many of them. I know he read some things on SI, you have given him books, he has been to MC, and you have done the work.

I clearly get the anger part, I said some of the same thing to my STBXW but the difference is at some point I realized that being angry all the time wasn't healthy for me, my kids or anyone for that matter. I couldn't keep living my life like that, letting my emotions be dictated by what my WW did or didn't say or do on a particular day.

It's funny, I am/was in the middle of one of those anger cycles for the last few weeks and reading your post kind of put things back into perspective for me.

My STBXW isn't responsible for how I feel, I am, and it's up to me to understand, cope with, and control my own emotions. I can't use her as a crutch anymore since we are getting D'd. Your BH needs to get to a point where he takes responsibility for his own anger/actions and deals with it. You can't make it go away. You can be the best wife ever from now on but unless he deals with his issues nothing will change.

he is sitting in the middle of wreckage, after a grenade has gone off and he is still sitting in that same spot. He still has a ringing in his eyes from the explosion and all my words and actions are not being heard. He sees and feels the shrapnel...he is thirsty and hungry, yet can't bring himself to accept any help from me, since I am the one who pulled the pin.
This is an eerily accurate description of how I felt for a very long time. I actually wrote a post about A's being like grenades a year or so ago. The key point for me was after all the damage has been done and you are sitting there looking around at the wreckage the ONLY person that can truly pull the BS out of that wreckage is the BS themselves. Sure the WS can help but every time the WS reaches down with the best of intentions the BS might look around at the devastation and pull away again landing right back in the middle of the destruction. Going with this grenade destruction metaphor, the BS has to walk out of the destruction and the WS may be able to guide as in don't step there, watch out for shrapnel there or go left instead of right because of fire over there but the BS has to get out on their own. Once they are out of the area they can look back and say hey my WS helped me get out or they can say my WS didn't help at all and I got out. But in each case they got out on their own it's just matter of how long it took and whether they see the actions the WS took as helpful (doing the work) or not. When the BS gets out do you see the WS standing there (having done the work to own their shit) with doctor's and ambulances and search teams crying saying they are sorry and were trying to fix what they broke. Or do you see them standing there (having not done the work) looking like the Termintor armed to the teeth ready to toss another grenade? Either way the BS walked out and can either walk away or not. If the WS tosses another grenade the BS can always put the pin back in or just walk away.

I said all that to say I agree your BH is still sitting in the middle of the wreckage. He has to want to get out. I made a conscious decision to stand up in the middle of the wreckage, assess my injuries, perform some field triage on myself, and actively walk out of the damaged area one step at a time. He has to do the same thing.


My WS wanted out of the M but wasn't able to pull the trigger. I ended up having to do that myself. You can't make him heal, he has to do that himself. He has to make that choice and you have to make your own choices. If your M fails it's not the end of the world. My M failed and I thought it was the end and it's not. Will things be different yes but different isn't always bad. Different may be what your BH needs to heal and what you need to complete your healing. I know you have a daughter. Think about what's best for you and her and move forward.

Sometimes it's just not healthy for people to be together. My STBXW and I were like emotionally stunted vampires. We just kept feeding off each other in a bad way until I broke the cycle. I couldn't truly start to heal until she was gone which is why I have all this delayed anger. I never truly worked through everything while we were still in the same house. I am not saying you should get a D, that is your choice but there is nothing wrong with you deciding to file for D if it's what you want. Filing for D isn't admitting failure or giving up. It's making a choice to move on to something else and in cases where 2 people can't seem to get along it can mean moving on to something better.

Your BH's actions have been saying the same thing for several years now. He just doesn't know how to act on them. If it is a dealbreaker for him then filing for D may actually be the step that helps him to move forward.

Sorry for this epic novel, that wasn't my intent when I started and it may or may not help you at all but the truth is you can't really help your BH he has to help himself at this point. You are both actually madhatters and he doesn't seem to be able to do the work to start to heal from either side. You have to decide what you want for you and your duaghter and move forward accordingly. I don't say this to be mean at all and I know you have struggled for years but maybe the only way he starts healing is when he has no choice when you are gone. I wish you the best RSEB.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:20 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1580 | Registered: May 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs: What a great post!!
I love the analogy that RSEB gave about the grenade (you write very well!) and 7 yrs your expansion on it. It has really helped me to read this. The only difference I would say, is that the BS does need to get up by themselves, but if the WS is on the side calling and encouraging them to get up, it does help. If not the WS, there are others that do help with encouragement, but as you said, the BS has to get up on their own and start making decisions to help their own healing.

Your post has helped a lot, 7 yrs. I have to focus on my own healing, just like RSEB's WS needs to start focusing on his. I can't look at what NPD is doing or not doing or saying anymore. I have to focus on me.

Miracle: thank you for your posts. Your questions are really helpful in guiding my focus to start really healing and dealing with what IS and not what I want it to be or pretending what I want it to be.


[This message edited by honesttoafault at 9:04 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB,

Hi! Been a while for me too, and I thought I’d take advantage of the new thread to jump back in.

Others have said what I was thinking as I read your post. Your BH should stop comparing. Betrayal is betrayal whether you are married or not. The difference is you chose to have an affair knowing how it feels to be betrayed. That makes you both broken in my book.

There comes a point when you have stop going over the same things. Him ranting over and over again doesn’t change anything. You gave him a second chance. That doesn’t not automatically mean he should offer you the same thing, especially as you knew how destructive your actions would be, but it should be a case of analysing, compromising and agreeing how to move forward in the marriage. And you can’t do that alone. He has to come with you or be left behind wallowing in self pity. And no one is going to find that attractive – he will be destined to be alone if he carries on this way. And the trouble is, he has been in that place for so long, he finds comfort in it and doesn’t really want to come away.

This is dragging you down and it must be so hard to remain positive when faced day after day with such negativity.

I would say leave him to his wallowing. You have done all you can to try and lift him and all you get is more shit. You’ve said sorry a million times, worn a hair shirt since d-day and crawled over cut glass. I fear nothing will ever be enough. He is a very unyielding man and full of angry resentment. His fear is preventing him from moving on.

I like Tryn’s bit on forgiving yourself. You know you are a better person today and you LIKE who you are. Your H cannot say the same and I wonder if he has got a hold on YOUR betrayal as some sort of worse thing than HIS because then he can make his less significant because he perceives HIS hurt as so much more than yours. Nope, in his head, what you did was worse. Frankly, I don’t think it would make a jot of difference if it was drunken ONS, he would still make it worse than what he did. I wonder if he has been unable to forgive himself and this is the crux of the problem. Deep down, he is still living with the guilt.

And I agree with everything that has been said. You’ve heard it all before, but you have to decide what you want for yourself and where you want to be in 5yrs time. Have you asked Mr RSEB where he wants to be and how he proposes getting to that place?

You're going around in circles - I feel I'm doing the same in this post!

It may well be

If it is a dealbreaker for him then filing for D may actually be the step that helps him to move forward
Then this is what you have to do.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs.. You are going to be one good catch. See ladies, there are good men out there.. When will you be Available?

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone, it is SO good to "talk" with you folks again...like putting on an old comfy robe.

I truly am at a loss...I agree with you all 100 percent.

Tryn...my old friend...I agree with you completely..as far as forgiving myself...I'm getting there...a few steps away...which is why I am still faltering a bit.

I do know that my BH has to help himself...I have spent the past four years trying to keep him, myself and our kids together...and I am at the point where I know without a doubt any more that I can't do it for him. That is where these posts are coming from...a place of readiness...a place of acceptance...a place of "will I be Okay"...and to that I am trying to tell myself yes.

We were texting this morning...here is the exchange:

RSEB: good morning baby..i hope you slept as best as you could..I know you are taking our conversation from last night as me putting a time limit on you "feeling better"..tht is SO not what I am worried about...what you are taking as me being selfish is actually me realizing that you don't love me anymore..and I am really really hurting...I know you are broken too..I ask you all the time if there is anything else I can doing for you and you always tell me that you're OK and there's nothing else I can do...I realize that to be true and it's too late for you..I want more then anything for you to be happy...that's actually not true...I want you to be happy WITH me...I know you don't believe in second chances...who would blame you after what I have done..but I am begging you please sweetie pie just one more chance to open yourself up just one more time...I'm fighting to get in to you and you have the door locked with 10 deadbolts..I don't have a chance unless you unlock that door and REALLY let me in one more time.

BH's response:
I am a lost soul. Why do you want to love me? My life ahs been one big disappointment. When I met you I found new hope. I was infatuated with you. I fell in love with you and when we got married I promised myself to always be faithful to you and provide for our family but all of that has been destroyed. My beliefs, my faith my love. Nothing matters to me. I'm sure you love me now but why didn't you love me before? All I ever wanted was honesty but deception was all I got. I realized I gave too much of myself. But I didn't care. I knew you were the one. Well I was wrong. But I was also wrong in thinking a relationship just happens. IT needs to be worked on. I just don't know how and I am lost.

END

So is this a small crack in the window folks? How should I proceed?


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And sorry I didn't mean to leave 7years, I want a miracle, honest to a fault or UKgirl out...I have read EVERY word you kind people have posted...it is just I am at work...and in a bit of a rush..don't tell the boss


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a lost soul. Why do you want to love me? My life ahs been one big disappointment. When I met you I found new hope. I was infatuated with you. I fell in love with you and when we got married I promised myself to always be faithful to you and provide for our family but all of that has been destroyed. My beliefs, my faith my love. Nothing matters to me. I'm sure you love me now but why didn't you love me before? All I ever wanted was honesty but deception was all I got. I realized I gave too much of myself. But I didn't care. I knew you were the one. Well I was wrong. But I was also wrong in thinking a relationship just happens. IT needs to be worked on. I just don't know how and I am lost.
I can relate to this feeling. A sense of worthlessness and insignificance. And this is where he has to turn around and see good in what you have and what you could/should have instead of saying it’s all a disappointment. Life IS full of disappointments and you can take the positive and learn, or you can take things personally and be crushed by them.

You could take each statement or sentence and respond. But he is making it all about him and wallowing in his pity party, so I don't think that is going to help, nor do I think that is what he is looking for. It really is woe is me and he will carry on doing this while it gets your attention. Something is going to snap soon. He has GOT to help himself.

“I knew you were the one.” This really bothers me. This is putting you upon a pedestal and shining a bright light on you. No, you were the one at the time. Besides, if he knew you were “the one” why did he set out to sabotage things – some sort of test? Or perhaps he thought there might, just might be someone else better than you. So how does he think that idea made you feel? This barbed comment is to deflect attention away from him and onto you. Wrong. Stop examining the past when that ground has been gone over so many times you both know every speck of dust that lays there. The One. Hmm.

He is only focussing on himself. His disappointment. He repeats it all ad nauseam and beats himself and you with YOUR failings and flaws. He has to see that he is not without flaws. And his biggest flaw is stubbornness. You could have turned around and said “once a cheater, always a cheater.” You could have dumped him and moved on alone. And I bet he would have blamed you for something because he is looking for a hook to hang his guilt on. Yes, he was VERY wrong to think a relationship just happens. You have to pay attention to it and encourage the bonds that keep you together. He can make a start. He can accept you for who you are, flaws, faults, imperfections, warts and all and just enjoy being with you. And then you can enjoy being with him. He has to let go of that worry rag he is hanging on to – it’s threadbare, smelly and time it went into the bin. What good is this doing, going round and round? Does he WANT you to divorce him so he can feel satisfied in some perverse masochistic way? No one is going to applaud him because no one is interested in being around him. “Well done, mate. You’ve now lost the only thing that’s good in your life” He will BE that downtrodden woe is me man that nobody wants to talk to because he never has anything positive to say. Sounds like my FIL. And y’know, it’s BORING.

He’s not lost, he’s just not interested in finding a way out.

Tell him you like who you are now. You’ve discovered a lot about yourself and you have concluded that you are NOT a bad person. And that the person who had the affair, the one who was eating away at your soul, is gone. And it’s time he let somebody love him before it’s too late. Sorry if this overly long, but I want to give him a shake and shout into his face “for God’s sake man! Snap out of it! Get your arse into gear and get happy! No one is gonna do it for you!” and then stomp off to the bar.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK girl

I want to give him a shake and shout into his face “for God’s sake man! Snap out of it! Get your arse into gear and get happy! No one is gonna do it for you!” and then stomp off to the bar.

Thanks for this...it made me chuckle...and I TRULY need that today.

I hear your words, and everyone elses...you are right..I DO like who I am today...that is a feeling that deep down where it counts, I never truly experienced...I am really starting to like these new duds I'm wearing...I think I might buy some in EVERY color...I like the way they fit


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i disagree that rseb should give him ultimatums....we have only her perspective on this

perspective equals reality

if you heard pfms perspective it would be all about how he has done everything i asked and then some...and he would swear up and down that he is a changed man...

and you know what he was a changed man...he just didn't change enough...where he swears he was open,honest and transparent i found evidence to contrary....and he would still swear up and down that HE WAS open honest and transparent because in his little mind he was....

i guess thats why i have hesitated in the past posting to rseb...i used to post in wayward all the time...so its not that i have issue with the fact that rseb IS a wayward....not at all...i am just not sure about her sich...its a tricky one at best because of the madhatter status...its not really cut and dry....

she is a madhatter...he cheated first...now on his side they were not married...and supposedly he got it out of his system...and he may be of the old school of thought and belief...

but it really doesnt matter...because it was still a betrayal to rseb...and then on the flip side of that coin..rseb knows that pain of betrayal so how could she knowingly inflict it by doing the same...did it start out to get even...was it because she was still feeling the pain and merely reacted...but then to have an affair that lasted 6 fucking years is overkill...

and yes i agree that he put her on a pedastil.....which is why i think he crashed and burned....more so then he would have thought possible...he trusted her completely and i also believe that he did as we all did...question everything...their entire relationship...that he could be fooled so easily for so long...and so on and so forth...

if rseb's affair was short term or a ons...it might be a different story...but 6 years is a really long long time...

to recover from infidelity no matter how long the affair seems to take forever and a day....never mind a lta...how many times have we posted the same.....how many of us a really over it or as i would rather say past it....even njgal who is happy now...still has her moments....and her ws did everything he could to make it right , all by njgals persepctive not his persepctive.....another difference imo...we have only heard her side, his side has not been voiced....except through rseb....

i believe that she believes she is doing it all...and that may or may not be true....bottom line is she has to decide what she can and cannot live with...and for how long she will choose to live the way she has...i am not in her shoes...only rseb can decide for herself what decisions she can live with in the future...


and btw ukgirl...(waving quite crazily) hello its so good to "see" you


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((honest)))

keep posting dear heart and please please do not put your head back in....dear heart you head needs to stay out and it needs to be held high, and your eyes need to be focused straight ahead...to your beautiful future!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH's response:
I am a lost soul. Why do you want to love me? My life ahs been one big disappointment. When I met you I found new hope. I was infatuated with you. I fell in love with you and when we got married I promised myself to always be faithful to you and provide for our family but all of that has been destroyed. My beliefs, my faith my love. Nothing matters to me. I'm sure you love me now but why didn't you love me before? All I ever wanted ....

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me.
geesh,

RSEB,

As the others have said, it is on him to fix hisself at this point. Sadly, your/his situation is nothing special. FWW fucked OM for years too, so did other WWs; and for the most part FWW and these other WWs did very little to "heal" us BHs. Even with (much) less support and effort than he has received from you (based on your postings) we have worked through the shit and got to where we are moving down a new path where we are again making our own luck and enjoying life. For some of us that path was through R, some it was through D, others of us something in between, but we are upright and ambulatory.

Stop worrying about your BH and work on your life. I hereby release and absolve you of further responsibility for your BH’s sucky life and outlook.

ETA: I really do not care if RSEB has done all she should or not. In my reality, it is on the BS to heal his or her self and then to decide if they still want to be a part fo a M relationship with their former (hopefully) WS. There is very little the WS can do to heal the BS. To heal the M, sure; that is a separate issue, but healing the BS is all on the BS.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:07 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Topic Posts: 996
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.