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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he wrote “nothing is certain – as in absolute.”

Death and everything ends is an absolute.
Pain in life is an absolute.
Some People are not always loving or loyal is an absolute.
Things Change is an absolute.
Things don’t always go according to plan.. that is an absolute.
Those are the givens in life.


MC.. I once date a woman who’s anger could go from zero to angry in no time flat. And of course, it was always about me.. what I said, how I behaved that placed her in the mode.

Oh yeh… Lying is manipulation.

Iwant.. You make a good point.. If R’s H came here saying.. But he still does not know what to do to behave the right way around R… Let’s flip it…


R’s H.. “I see my DS a bit shy.. I thought wrestling will give him some self-confidence. But my W always thinks my ideas are bad one’s.. she never allows me to lead our kids. So when I suggested it.. she responded with some smart ass shitty comment.. “What if I signed him up for dance class without discussing?” She assumed I signed him up.. she always “projects. “ … then she makes some smart ass comment.”

I would still say to R’s H.. be quality. To the best of your ability. Perhaps when she begins to “project” .. YOU be prepared for it.. When she makes that smart ass comment, you look at her.. Say, “Look, I have not signed him up, I don’t do anything when it comes to our kids without your consultation. You can make a choice to see that or not before you make some smart ass remark. What about your reponce bring me closer to you? I don’t do that to you and you are not going to do that to me. I think this sport will give our son some good values. If he wants t play, We let him play. You got that? Now.. Let’s talk to DS and see if he wants to play and it will be fun for us BOTH to watch him, cheer for him.. ”

Perhaps this is about R “projecting”, not necessarily about wrestling… She always assumes what her H would do or not do.

See.. we must work hard on ourselves.. and that darn list is so long.

LOL.. what do you mean by this Iwant?

cept for you tryn....
I screw up all the time. I practice what I think might be good behaviors all the time on these threads with words.. BTW.. We all lie.. only a liar says he/she never lies. You ever watch the movie Liar Liar?

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack-
I agree.
It does take two to make an argument or escalate an argument.
Iwam- again-I agree.
He is in a place where he is not divorcing but not 'all in' for reconciliation.
The anger may be due to this.
My point was more looking at from the point of view of reconciliation.
Which IMHO can't happen with this level of disdain.
I think there's an ICR thread about BH trying to find respect for their WWs again.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With the exception of the MH title I could have been RSEB's H. I just recognized that I was stuck in a severe downward spiral and decided to go back to counseling before it got to bad.

RSEB you are a target of convenience. Unless your H gets into counseling the cycle isn't going to break for him. I agree with MC_Jack that it takes 2 people to argue but my advice/opinion isn't necessarily for you to be more conscious of your contribution to the discussion but to actually 180 your H. If you are not engaging with him then he has no one to be mad with but himself. Back to the point I made a few pages ago he may only wake up when he no longer has you to use as a pressure release valve.

I left not only because my WW was unremorseful but because staying with her was turning me into someone I didn't want to become. I was mad ALL the time and I was starting to take it out on her. I recognized pretty quickly that I was not necessarily mad at my WW but mad at myself for being "duped" for years. Your H seems to be much further down that path and he has the added fuel of his guilt as a wayward himself that he can't or won't address. I just don't want you or your children to end up negatively affected by the situation as well.

You can break the cycle you are stuck in because you can see past it. He can't break it because he can't see past it. This sort of goes back to what MC_Jack was saying about it takes 2 people. I am not saying leave what I am saying is do a 180 and let your H sit in his own anger and frustration until you are ready to decide what you want or make some decisions. It's pretty hard to have an argument or fight when one person won't engage. Not arguing hopefully removes you as the target of his emotinoal outbursts. Remember the 180 isn't about leaving it's about getting you in a better place to make decisions.

My only hesitation is if your H has violent tendencies or has ever turned his anger/frustration towards your children. Once you remove yourself as his target of choice he either will turn his frustration on himself or on others around him. If that happens or you think it will then imo you should leave for your safety and your childrens safety. The pain or in this case cycle stops when you say it does. I wish both of you the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:24 AM, October 28th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Death and everything ends is an absolute.
Pain in life is an absolute.
Some People are not always loving or loyal is an absolute.
Things Change is an absolute.
Things don’t always go according to plan.. that is an absolute.
Those are the givens in life.

I know that. What he said was a stand alone statement. His answer to my question was not an answer, it was a deflection. He thought he was being clever. And that spoke volumes about him, his arrogance, his selfishness and his narcissistic side.

I wasn’t looking for clever talk, I was looking for him to say he had something in place as a boundary that he was not going to step over. That he would be able to say to me he would never, ever have another affair because he recognised a, b & c. That if he was unhappy, he would turn to me first. That if we couldn’t work things out, we would separate before embarking on another relationship. I was not looking for “nothing is certain, as in absolute” THAT just got me riled. It told me he too uncertain of me or of his own ability to say no to another chance to stick his dick elsewhere.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK..
he wrote “nothing is certain – as in absolute.”

Which my W said the exact same thing to me once..
I though to myself at the time.. What a crock. You make the decision to be M or not too. That choice to love or not.

I just love that slogan..Written by David Richo. That is about me.. my life...what happens to me.

That if he was unhappy, he would turn to me first. That if we couldn’t work things out, we would separate before embarking on another relationship.

And that fall under that people are not always loving or loyal.. Why? As Dip says.. Because they can. That simple.

But I can also change a plan.. Because plans don't always go according to plan.

oh yeh W, everthing ends too.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:49 AM, October 28th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That if he was unhappy, he would turn to me first. That if we couldn’t work things out, we would separate before embarking on another relationship

That's all I wanted too, UKgirl.

NPD met me after xWH#1 left. He saw how devastated I was because of the betrayal. I begged him time and time again throughout our relationship to not to do that to me. I begged him that if he was ever unhappy, tell me, we will try to work it out and if we can't we can leave each other. Give me that respect.

So what does he do? Yeah he hid it for years and years.

With the boys' counselling, it is not only what NPD did to me, but what he has done to them. DS15's comments lately has been that his father is giving all his time and money to the OC's. They saw how thier father was with them and NPD has the gall to tell me that our DS's are acting the way they are acting because of me. That I have turned them against him.

As for the argument with RSEB and her BH, we can only go on what was presented to us. Objectively, there seems to be little communication. There is a lot of anger and unresolved issues on both sides. Calling names and yelling are not conducive to communication.

A decision needs to be made on both sides as to where they are going to be headed. If RSEB feels she has done a lot to show remorse and is continuing to try, her BS should try to decide what he wants to do. Does he want to continue in the M? It seems that he is still hurting, and as a BS of a LTA, I totally understand that. Hopefully, he can make a decision on how he wants to proceed.
To heal the M, both parties need to respect one another, and the Mad Hatter sitch needs to be addressed.


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC.. I once date[d] a woman who’s anger could go from zero to angry in no time flat. And of course, it was always about me.. what I said, how I behaved that placed her in the mode.

^^^So, what did you do in those situations? Spool up the fight? Decline to interact? React in a way that did not 'fight 'back'?

...it takes 2 people to argue but my advice/opinion isn't necessarily for you to be more conscious of your contribution to the discussion but to actually 180 your H.

^^^To me there isn't a distinction in this case. It is about interrupting the pattern - breaking the negative infinity loop - so... one can either consciously control and change one's reaction to a better, more healthy one; or, alternatively refuse to engage (180) which also breaks the loop. The more one interrupts the pattern, the better chance the habit will fade away.

Now for Jack: the election is Nov. 5. I am pessimistic about my chance of winning. So I am bummed. I could have done more...Also my DD18 is totally screwed up right now - especially with interactions with WW. My WW is still dealing with anxiety 24/7. Where are those bikini-clad cabana-girls and ski bunnies from a few pages ago...(?!?)

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:39 AM, October 28th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 790 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RSEB
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Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone,

I am sorry for my disappearing a bit, but trust me I am reading and taking in every single word. I am finding myself very down, depressed, sad and second guessing what I am fighting for. I am having such a difficult time.

IWANT, thank you for your honesty. I have BEGGED my BH to come to SI and I do understand "it's not him", he doesn't do this kind of thing. Fine, well how about reading a book about how to survive this crappy sandwich I dealt him. Maybe go to MC or IC once in a while to make HIMSELF feel better, if he in the end CHOOSES to leave me, at least he has made a choice. As you say, you have said quite a bit to your WH, it is a way of life that it sounds like you regret, but nonetheless have done quite a few times since DDay. But my BH has not chosen a direction for himself. Did you use these vulgar words you speak of prior to DDay? You say you have been emotionally and verbally abused. I have been too by my BH, thou he will always pin his reactions/responses/choice of words on me, my actions (prior to my LTA).

Yes I know you all only see my POV, but that is all I can offer. My BH likes to blame me for his words, his temper, is anger, is throwing of furniture at times. He threw and broke apart a bunch of furniture in our basement ONE WEEK BEFORE we got married. I don't even remember the argument. Afterwards he blamed it on the stress of the wedding and his mother was dying from cancer. Some one here mentioned of someone they knew having experienced being with someone who could go from ZERO to SIXTY in one second. That is how I have ALWAYS described my BH. It is EXTREMELY difficult to have a conversation with him because I never know what will "piss him off". This time it was the ballet comment and next time it could be any other million things.

The other night after his outburst when I went to talk to him he said to me while he was yelling that he doesn't have any problems the only problems he has are the ones I TELL him he has. He is comparing a private marital relationship with him shooting the breeze with a stranger or co worker or a parent at one of our kids events.

The problem is now I am tired. I have worked on myself. I am by no means perfect, but I do think more highly of myself then I ever have before and that in itself is a miracle because the horrible things I felt about myself after DDay and I truly got into IC was a very deep hole for me to manage to crawl out of. The other night when my BH told me to keep my F'ing mouth shut it hurt me. Why did it hurt me? Because THE DAY BEFORE he texted me that he WANTED TO WORK AND FIGHT FOR OUR MARRIAGE. When he started screaming at me I knew that the text was only words, just as a BS is told to pay attention to actions not just words, I realized that text was just words. My BH has NO CLUE as to the work that we need to do. I asked him the other night when I tried to talk to him and he was "venting" some more all over me what exactly he meant by that text. He told me that he is putting my A behind him, burying it and moving forward. I said he's been trying that for four years now and he said that this was different because now he is making a concious effort. So I know nothing is changing.

I had an IC/MC appointment set up for tonight. I told my BH this morning that the C has said she would like to see him. He agreed to go alone, so lets see what happens.

My biggest realization at the moment. I don't know if I want to be with my BH anymore. I find myself swaying back and forth. He is an angry person. He has ALWAYS been an angry person and when he feels the need he can be more vicious then anyone I have ever met. I know you are all BS's...would your FWS have said that about you?

I do 100% agree that my BH is ANGRY, he is SOOOO angry, but he has been angry for years now and it is always simmering and the minute there is a disagreement of any kind, his pot boils over and I get burned again and again.

7yearsflushed, I just read your latest post. Yes you describe my BH PERFECTLY. He is angry all the time and he does take it out on me, he always has. He does say the issue is no longer with me and what I did, but with him and how he feels about himself. But still he is not willing or does not know how to work on that FOR HIMSELF. There is HORRIBLE communication between us, which I have mentioned in MC needs to be worked on, but how can we work on it when my BH will only go with me every so often and then the anger of the A comes out and pre A issues are left untouched yet they continue to unravel what is left of our M. The other night when I told him to "shut up" I was shocked at myself, but it just came out. That is the first time EVER in our 23 year history I have done that. He would tell you the same because he has said that to the MC. Since IC the counselor has told me different tactics to use when he gets angry, I should walk away, call a time out, tell him I will not be spoken to in such and such a way. Tell him it hurts me when he calls me names or yells and curses at me. I have tried so many times and it continues. I know you mention the 180. I don't even think that would work on my BH. He has been shut out and not connected to anyone for his entire life that I believe the 180 would just cause more anger.

I also wanted to mention the MH situation. I NEVER thought at the time of my LTA that my BH's A had any bearing on it. When I first joined SI I didn't mention his A, but eventually I did in one of my posts. It was at a members urging, they almost dard me to add it to my tagline. I did eventually, but I have since removed it again because I didn't want it to seem as if I was after sympathy and understanding here because of my BH A. Now I look back and I can almost still feel that horrible feeling in my stomach after I knew his A was still going on, time after time. When he didn't hold me and tell me he was sorry or even ask me EVEN ONCE for my forgiveness. He wouldn't even buy a new mattress for our bedroom when I begged him to, because I KNEW he had been with her on that bed. Yes I could have left, but I loved him. He was everything to me. Was I so insecure that I clung to him...yes, I do see that now, but I did love him. This is where a lot of his anger comes from I think. He feels tricked/stuck because we are M'd, we have children and he has no where to go, as he always says.
The other night when he was reading all the posts on SI he became SO angry again when I mentioned his A, he was yelling saying that I am telling everyone here that to justify my A. So here I am now, and I have told him myself that if the table was turned I KNOW he would never have done the work on himself or tried to let me know how sorry he is or how much he loves me and regrets his horrible actions, because he didn't back then.

I am so tired. He doens't get it and I am afraid he won't get it until it is too late.

[This message edited by RSEB at 12:26 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
Stronger4it
♀ New Member
Member # 39372
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A man who values M.. the heavy connection. Once M, this man will never cheat. He also puts that much value in the ring.. He does not move in to cohabitate, get easy sex.. he tells her.. I move in only when WE decided to marry, make that kind of commitment. That is when we can move to a far more closer relationship.. I am test driving you now. Then, day in day out gives her words of affirmation, takes her to new and different places, is very romantic.. When fights happen.. he resolves it in a good way.. when he makes a mistake.. he acknowledges it and tries hard to never do it again.. He never accepts strong bad behaviour, he gives her gifts.. expecting nothing in return, he is a giver.. not expecting anything from anyone..but gets it because he is that attractive.. a hard worker.. He pays close attention Strong.. Then one day this good man pops the question, “Will you marry me?” She says no.. Next thing she know, she lost a good man because all GOOD MEN get married. Scared men do not.

How do you know that once married he will not cheat? Everyone goes into marriage thinking it will last forever and that they will be faithful. But things change. People change. Feelings change. And some marriages are vulnerable to affairs.

I've read so many stories on SI. Is the young woman who caught her husband cheating 8 months after exchanging vows more betrayed that the man whose wife cheated with another woman? Or a boyfriend who cheated after 18 years? Seemingly fresh vows offer little protection.
Betrayal is betrayal.

I want fidelity to our relationship. Not an external social or religious construct.

I'm the one making the leap of faith. I'm the one with the most to lose. I'm the scared one.

Thanks for listening.


Me BS 46
Him WS 48
Together 18 yrs
Daughter 9
DD Nov 13/12
Today ?

Posts: 43 | Registered: May 2013
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

because all GOOD MEN get married. Scared men do not...

How do you know that once married he will not cheat?

^^^ You don't know. Let's not confuse tryn's argument logically. He is saying Good Men get married, not that all men that get married are Good Men...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 790 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB,

you may be at the end of the line.

I had a lot of internal anger built up over the many years...and took a lot of it out on WW to be sure. I started untangling it in 2011 by myself and further in 2012 in IC. It was in relation to my mother and being 'parentified'...and in relation to my WW kinda doing the same to me. I accepted something that was not good for me from my WW because that was what I knew. I have told my story in fragments here over the 2 years.

Your BH's anger goes way back...and is deep...no advice here. I can affirm to you that you certainly understand your situation. What is best for the LONG TERM?

Jack

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:35 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 790 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stronger4it

I look at my Dad, who is an Atheist. It is not about a religion.. but I will say, that the book was written with the highest morality in that sense.. Take all the miracles out of the book and what do you have? A book about morality. My dad married a good woman today.. not in fear. You don’ have to agree with it. I am ok with that.

MC hit what I was saying on the head...

Good men get married. Men who don't... YOU look for fear in that kind of man. It is called the fear of commitment.

I bet the right man comes into your life.. You spend 18 months around this man.. he finds you a great fit because you are that quality.. He is not going to risk losing you. He is going to get on his knees.. and proposed and commit to you until the day he dies. It may even suprise you.


And you have a 33% chance you snagged a good one... because 33% of all M are most happy. These are good men who know how to be happy with the women he chooses. So you must be very good at knowing what to see in a man.. or even a woman.

And one great quality you already have is you have it within you to life your life in fidelity. If I were single, that one quality might be on my list of picking a woman. If I meet a woman who in the past 24 months sleep with 50 men.. NOPE. You think men don't talk? "oh yeh she'll F anyone.." In fact, I would only pick a woman who had long term relationships. Me? A woman afraid of M.. off the list.

Oh you would want a man “like” me.. I work hard. I don’t squander our money. You call me needing help, I stop what I am doing and help… if at all possible. I NEVER do what RSEB H did. I never criticize my W. I let her do things her way. I give my W many words of affirmation every week.. Different ways. When she does things that are smart, I make sure she knows it.. I make comments around friends, her co-works that build her up. I make sure I let her know the results of her working and how it affects our retirement to enjoy. I do not exaggerate her excellence; I just say what it is. I surprise her and sometime am mysterious. I serve my community on as a chairman so my W can be proud of me. I serve as a board director on a business association. It is for status. I try my best to never be boring. I take her out to experience different things about every week. I give her public affection. I am a man who lives my life in fidelity… and I make sure my behavior is such she knows I have no secrets. Almost every week, I bring my W some stupid gift in my travels. I try my best when I have a chance to maker her life a bit easier. I listen when she comes home complaining about her work and I know with intent exactly the right time to just change her focus on home life.. away from work.. ore positive. I touch her often. It might be a glancing sliding hand.. or I will grab her in different places and just make out with her. Every once in a while I will sweep her off her feet and carry her.. About every night, when I am home, we just have a glass of wine and talk..(try different wine too) We talk about everything. She has an idea.. I listen. I bring her coffee every morning. No, my W is not my property.. she is her own woman. Free to challenge me as she sees fit because I never punish her for it. I let her have her time.. I give her my time. ridicule? It never comes from my mouth. I tell my wife the funny things I do, the funny things I see during the week to make her laugh. I romance my W often.. It starts early in the day. If she is not in the mood.. No whining.. no complaining.. No sex neediness.. I do not ever accept maintenance sex. If you are not into it, I stop.. and I say that’s OK.. My W gets my respect despite her evil past. Her past is not who she is today. I am a man who can forgive. Accept. I never say things to make her feel guilty about her sin. No, I don’t let my W disqualify herself around me. I try my best to make her feel complete. I am not overboard on any one of those things.


And she also gets this.. When my W criticizes me… She is going to get one of these..
Now? why would I like comment? what you just said to me.. make me be attractive to you right now? What good for us comes from what you said. IT DOESN”T.. say what you want. And I respond in a manipulative way too.. I raise my voice..I DON”T TREAT YOU THAT WAY AND YOU SURE ON GOING TO SAY CRAP LIKE THAT TO ME… THAT IS YOUR CHOICE.. reset.. I am going the gym and when I come back I hope we can have a pleasant evening. I unusually get an apology... I will just give her a hug… and I forget about it. And I have had to say.. given our past, you spending so much time with your co-worker Mike, you know so much personal stuff about him, perhaps too much, do I need to be concerned. I let her explain but it was a warning shot.. No argue. I am paying attention. Nothing else said. If she wants Mike… Have him. I am no longer niave.. No sex, way too many “No’s” I know what is happening. Way too many shut downs... any NOT loving me.. I know what is going on.. I Need no proof. That is the proof.. She chooses not to love. I won’t love someone not loving me. If she cannot forgive me.. I say.. OK. But I am not going to be with a woman who cannot forgive.. but I try my best to never place myself in that situation in the first place. If she is unhappy.. All I can be is… myself. She dictates her own unhappiness, not me. She is welcome to join with me or not.. If she shuts down.. Then I will ask her to open back up.. if she chooses to be shut down.. I know all the 180 rules.. and I lay them on her with intent.

The thing about R'ing.. people change. You can see it too. If not.. well it is your spouses choice, not yours. You are trying to be the best possible person.. the most attractive. If they don't want that and give in reciprocity... I cannot do anything but move on.


Sure, I have fear in being single but I have courage.. It will only be temporary discomfort.. My bet.. 7years will be in a beautiful place next year. It would be no different for me.


And let me tell ya.. I was not even close to the man I am today before and during my W’s A. Not even close. I was a weak man who let her.. be the “Queenbee”.. Yes that what was our friends call her… But my W is not longer my Queenbee. She hit rock bottom. It’s funny how art can imitate life..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFasFq4GJYM


I have picked my path.. and nobody rules me. And made it all about me… That is the key I tell all.. You make this about YOU. I feel real good about who I am today. I play golf again now too… was #1 on the money list too last season.. lol..


Stronger4it.. You had so much strength in kicking your Common law H out.. What exactly has he done to make himself WORTHY of a woman like YOU? What have you done to make yourself a far better woman?

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:42 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB- He was breaking furniture in a rage when you were first married? There seems to be a pattern of lots of angry outbursts. Can you continue to live with so much anger?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:35 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB,
You say you begged your BH to come to SI (or at least do something to help himself) but he said no. You could only ever ask or suggest. To beg puts him in a place of power over you. Don’t beg. Ever. It’s demeaning and doesn’t make any situation better. Having said that, in the first few weeks after d-day, I broke down several times and begged my fWH to not leave while I was such a mess. The difference was he had no intention of leaving and never used my dire emotional state to manipulate me or put him in a position of power over me. And those moments didn’t last.

Going back to your H’s affair and his attitude afterwards. He didn’t say sorry, he didn’t ask your forgiveness and he wouldn’t even agree to buy a new mattress (there’s that “begging” word again). What did that tell you? That you were giving him power over you. That is not an equal relationship. Why was he behaving in this arrogant and superior way? If you take out his FOO and previous life experiences (which do have some bearing, but they are not 100% influential) then it must make you wonder firstly why he had the affair and then why his reactions afterward were so callous, uncaring and unloving. Do you think it could have been an exit affair? The he either wanted out or that he felt he didn’t come up to your (or anyone’s) expectations. This was telling you that you were walking into big problems if you chose to continue in a relationship with this man unless he sorted himself out. And he didn’t. And from what you tell us, he never has. He still doesn’t want to apologise for what he did, or to explain it, or to examine it. Therefore, you have to assume that he has no regrets or any remorse. And he is using YOUR affair to batter you with and excuse his own.

You say that your BH says his problems are the ones you tell him he has. You are making observations and pointing out to him what you can see. If he can’t listen without getting angry – then he has problems. He still has problems and he always will have. And he will also have problems with anger.

Did your BH see your counsellor? And if he did, was there any difference in him when he got home? Did he talk about it?

but I do think more highly of myself then I ever have before
Good. Hold on to that. Whatever happens, this matters. Congratulate yourself from time to time and know you HAVE made the effort and that effort has been hard, but well worth it. We all like ya and think you are an amazing person!

I don't know if I want to be with my BH anymore.

To quote MC & njgal
Your BH's anger goes way back...and is deep...no advice here. I can affirm to you that you certainly understand your situation. What is best for the LONG TERM?
and
Can you continue to live with so much anger?

You have to decide what is best for YOU. He doesn’t want to change and you can’t change him. So now what?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl,

Thank you for your thoughts. I just wanted to post and I am sure I will ramble because my thoughts are EVERYWHERE.

First off, my BH did go to our MC/IC last night. He came home in an affectionate manner, he looked very “soft” and content. . He told me in our five minute conversation that it went well and "he vented". He said it was good because he can never vent. So I asked if he was venting crying or venting yelling. He was yelling and screaming. He said the IC asked him what direction he wanted her to go because his anger was all over the place, but it sounds to me as if she just listened and he ranted and raved for the session. I am not sure if that is good or bad or even different. I am hoping it is a start FOR HIM. We only spoke for a few minutes because he was going to go workout. He asked if I wanted to go downstairs and hang out with him while he worked out, but I said no. It was already almost 9pm by that time and I was tired. And in all honesty I wasn’t up for something to possibly come up that I was too emotionally tired and drained to deal with. All the words he was yelling this past Friday night at me are STILL bouncing around my head. So is it good that he was yelling in IC?
As far as my BH's A. I wanted to explain our history. We started dating in 1991. I was 20 he was 22. I had only "dated" 2 other guys. My first kiss EVER was at 19 I was a freshman in college. After about a year together, I broke up with my BH. I don't really know why, maybe my age or maybe something was missing, I can't even pretend to remember. During our month or so break up I started seeing the MOM (obviously not M'd or anything at the time). We had been friends for about two years at that point. Well I thought there was an attraction there, but when we acted on it, it felt awkward. The MOM told me he loved me right away, he said he had felt that way for a while. So now here I was, still communicating with my BH and now not wanting to hurt my friend, the MOM. But I did break it off with MOM and got back with BH. However I NEVER told my BH, but he did ask me if anything ever happened and I denied it. Then in mid 1993 I broke off with my BH again. He had by then shown me a few sides of anger, nothing crazy, I just felt off. It was then that he started seeing his OW. I had met her before while we were still together. She worked at his karate school and I knew from the one time I met her that she was attracted to him. While we were still together he had driven her home from the school a few times. So when we "broke up" is when they started as far as I know. But while we were "broken up" we were still being intimate. When we officially got back together I was attacked near my apartment. A man tried to rape me on the street at night, but he got scared away by a car. After I called my BH he came over he was so worried and scared and we "got back together" and now he asked me to move in with him. We got an apartment together and we lived together for a year, up until then my BH was still living with his Mom.
It was a horrible year. I was working two jobs to get my half of the rent money and he was STILL seeing the OW. I found out because I checked the answering machine at my BH's mothers house and there was a message from the OW on it. MY future MIL was taking messages for my BH from the OW. I was furious. My future MIL always told me she loved me like a daughter. REALLY??? Even then my BH told me not to say anything to my MIL, I did anyway and she got loud and angry/defensive too, just like my BH gets and then she was apologetic.

SO now the year of hell in the apartment was over (Nov 1995) He moved back home and I got another apartment. He said he stopped seeing her, but now fast forward to 1996 we got a house together, well it was in my BH's name, but we went house hunting together, I was the one who found the house, so we were set to close. I moved in with my BH and his MIL until closing for a month. I witnessed a huge fight over nothing between my BH and his Mother. She told him to shut the fuck up, he called her an asshole. My jaw hit the floor. I was in shock and I knew I couldn't move in to the house. I had never even told my Mom to shut up. I was not raised that way. So I got a roommate and an apartment. I didn't tell my BH until the day I was moving out.(Since DDay and IC I see such a pattern of me running and hiding from my BH now, it's horrible.) So I moved out, my BH found out where I lived he waited for me outside, stood there crying begging me not to leave him and just come with him. I told him I couldn't. A few weeks later (we had still been talking) and I had started seeing a new man, but I went by "our house" to congratulate my BH on the closing. I had bought him a gift. I went to the house and there was a car in the driveway. Needless to say it was the OW. So for the next two months during our "break up" we were still being intimate, he was seeing the OW, added another woman to the mix and had a separate one nighter with another woman and plus we were still being intimate. Well I asked and yes (sorry UK Girl I BEGGED him for us to get back together. He said he wasn't ready, but in Nov on our original dating anniversary, he called me and said he wanted to get back together. By mid December 1996 we did and I moved into our house, which is when he wouldn't buy the new mattress. Things were going well between us, honeymoon stage I guess, but by the middle of 1997 I found a "beep/page" from the OW, yes she was STILL around. I believe it finally ended then. I know my BH saw her as pathetic and as he has said he was using her for sex. He knew she would always come running whenever he called. To this day, and after my DDay he will still say it was just sex, which is why he is more upset about my A in his mind, I because he knows feelings were involved. And no, my BH didn't ever say the words "I'm sorry" about his A until about a year or so after my DDay, when I brought up his A during one of our “venting sessions”. He said he was wrong and he should have apologized.

The possibility of my BH's anger has ALWAYS made me nervous. That is why I always ran from him, but I did/do love him, because when things are good they are good, but I never know when he going to get upset. So after my DD was born and I felt lonely and disjointed from my BH and I ran, but not out of the house or an apartment, but into my A. I hid, I didn't face my problems with him. My BH still says we hardly ever fought, which is why my A is so hard for him to understand. I was so busy keeping my feelings to myself, walking on eggshells and working 24/7 to try and keep him happy, being a new Mom and trying to keep the peace and I broke. I broke emotionally. Talk about not having the skills of communication. God I did EVERYTHING wrong. I avoided everything and anything. I over spent money, I turned to MOM, who I mistakingly kept in my life as a friend all these years. The perfect storm, and I crashed HARD.
To try and explain my BH. I always say “he means well”. He has these visions of beliefs and ethics. He believes in working hard to provide for his wife and kids. He believes in family time. He doesn’t go out with his friends. He is a saver, always planning for the future. He will fight to the death to protect us. He will and has and can get vicious very quickly. He says what he wants and doesn’t have any filters. I have seen his sisters (which are also dysfunctional on more serious levels) turn away from him and his abrasive ways. He doesn’t have friends. Some is due to his communication skills, some is due to the fact that he is ALWAYS busy with work or working on our house. He is a TRIPLE A personality. He is so hard on himself when he messes up. It is almost as if he retreats into himself. He doesn’t really tolerate others not working all the time. He doesn’t understand “down time”. He thinks the “normal” person to be lazy and not aggressive enough. He loses his temper quickly, he doesn’t have much patience at all, which is tricky when you have kids as we all know. He is hard headed. He sees everything in black and white. There is hardly ever any room for the inbetween. He is hard on EVERYONE, but no harder then he is on himself. He is anxious, he is always planning. He has Sunday night anxiety every Sunday thinking about the week ahead. He can be loving. He can be affectionate at times, but only with me and our kids. No one else has ever seen that side of him, except our IC/MC. She says the same, he means well, he has good intentions…but we all know how that goes.
As far as my emotional needs going un-met by my BH. I don’t think that is even on his radar. His daily life is void of emotions. He is tough and gets through his day. He doesn’t even think that maybe I need more. It is as if he is on a different plain the most people and it doesn’t even register. Now he looks back at our history and re writes it. He says I was on a pedestal, but to me you don’t yell at and call me names if I am on a pedestal and he says he gave me everything. Yes, he gave me everything he knows how to give, but there is SO much more he is unaware of. He always says words are just words and they don’t mean anything. He doesn’t mean it and he is just “venting”, no surprise knowing how he was raised. That day when I witnessed the argument between his Mother and him after they were yelling and screaming and name calling. About two minutes later his Mother asked him what he wanted for dinner. I think that was what scared me the most. That is what my BH was taught.
So that is us, in MORE than a nutshell. That is my life with him. I am 42, he has been the other half of that shell for more then half my life. Would it be smart to walk away? I don’t know. But I don’t know if I want to yet. I DO know I am feeling hopeless at this point, but am I ready to give up? No, not yet, BUT I have decided to turn the reigns over to my BH now. I know he is hurting and he is stuck. There will be no more eggshells for me. He has to step up now. He has to stop his own hurt. I am not managing this R or whatever it is anymore. I am not managing his happiness or his relationships with his family and our children anymore. He is a grown man and he can only change if he wants to. He took one step last night with IC, lets see if he keeps it up. I am certainly grateful to all of you who are all here with me for the ride.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you are all BS's...would your FWS have said that about you?

Well R.. I confess I said some of the most horrible things to my W. Far worse the what you H said to you..

R.. There is something you need to change about YOU.

A weak man wants things laid in his lap...and this man will be most unhappy. He has earned nothing and achieved nothing.

MAKE HIM EARN YOU.

You must start to learn what to say EVERYTIME.. your H lays bad behavoirs on you.

Throw it right back in his face.

"You just said "blah blah blah" If I told you that same thing, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL. IT made me feel like dirt. I am not going to be with a man who treats me like dirt. (RESET TO SAFETY) Now I am goint to take a walk.. wHen I come home, we are going to enjoy the eveing.

Stuff like that.. YOU COME UP WITH TEN READY TO RESPOND ONE LINERS..

NEVER ARGUE OR DEBATE.. RESET him back to safety...


Be ready for a...
Put-down
Unsafe behavior or words
Criticizum
minipulation
Anger

When it happens.. Don't get drawn into that non-sense.. YOU LAY THE WOOD TO HIM with what YOU want from him. YOU YELL AT HIM if needed. But try both but try very calm first..


On the flip side.. When he controls his anger in a situation.. You grap his hand and say.. Hey, now that is very attractive to me.. I want to jump your bones right now.

do you follow?


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

R,
As far as my BH's A.

Don't go down that path.. Hey, your H gave you a sign of who he was and YOU ignored it. It was not different than my ignoring all those signs my own wife gave me..

He was not married therefore technically, he could screw who he wanted. He did not have an affair. An affair is only when married.(strong common married too) I don't view you as a madhatter. All you are doing is revisiting pain. You control your thoughts.. when you revisit that time.. your feelings will follow.

Make his about today.. Your H has behavior problems.

MAKE HIM EARN YOU.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:27 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My post to stong was not just about her.. It was about YOU R.

You can only control yourself.


Make this about YOU...


Every morning.. get up and tell youself..

I am going to be strong. Strong is attractive. I will be a woman who is not going to be stomped on... I will be attractive to the best of my ablity.

Be like Sister.. be like NjGal.. be like blobett.. Be strong. My menotors.. They are strong..

I will be prepared and act with courage.

Men need a challenge.. men must earn things to be happy..

I will not ever be with a weak man. I want a strong man.

Your man is stuck in what can you give him mode.. A bad mode. He will never be in peace until he discovers that He must earn what he gets. A good value.. A value of taking personal responcibliy.

When you have this value.. the result is good feelings. If you don't you stay stuck in victim thinking... what can others give me.. YOU stay stuck in depression, negativity.. etc.. Bad feelings.

When he loves you greatly.. You will reward him.. when not.. lay the wood to him. And that mode of operation is about YOU.

Peace

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:29 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
TheBestMe
♀ Member
Member # 39476
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has been 10 months since the donkey contacted me. I can not stop obsessing about that beast. I have to know, I need to know what she is up to. That is the only way that I will positively know what is going on in my life.

My "prize" lived with this woman behind my back for about 7 years. Although there were signs of infidelity, I did not have the person's name. She did try to let me know but I chose to ignore it. Denial was a strong protector and something that I needed then.

Well, I am not in denial now. The "prize" is trying so hard to make me happy. But, with his history it will take longer than 10 months for me to begin to trust him. So, I monitor the OW. Her FB page will let me know what's going on between them. Oh, btw, she has lost weight. The donkey thinks that physically she is more attractive than me? Her game is so wack that even after almost a decade of "F"ng the "prize" behind my back she lost.

Well, enough about OW. That is easier said than done. I now know why a LTA is the most difficult to get over. The emotional attachment between the two involved in the affair is real. He said that it was over before she called and e mailed me. I suppose that's true, that is why I got the call.

Any suggestions on how to help myself get the obsessive thoughts of the AP out of my mind.


ME Doing Better
WH Trying As Best He Can
Married 23 years
Status: Working towards friendship
D Day #1 - 2007 My gut told me
D Day #2 - 2010
D Day #3 - 1/11/2013
LTA 7 years

Living with both feet pointed in the same direction


Posts: 204 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Inner Peace
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You made a memory box for him right? You have showed him remorse right? you regret all you did.. You have felt it.. I know.

You can have a value.. I will only be with someone who can forgive me. That is a good value for you.

Forgiving is not easy for us. We don't even have to forgive. What you did can be unforgivable.

I can accept that things I have done cannot be forgiven. I accept that.

But life is way to short.. We make mistakes. We eat the apple. It is part of life and what we do.

But also is forgiving ourselves. We learn from our mistakes. I forgive myself. You forgive yourself.

I cannot change my past. I can make restitution and that may mean I give someone who cannot forgive me a chance to be at peace.

They are scared of what I must do.. But to set them free.. to discover on thier own what they need to be most happy.

Despite the letting your H go.. You still need to change things about YOU. If you don't you are going to pick a man who might stomp on you again.. and you end up exactly the same spot.. misery again.. and again.


SO why not start to develop into a woman who can change while you are M. I might say.. You practice on your H. Make the mistakes with him.. until you learn how to be a woman who can be srtong..

who knows? Your H might respond very well. He might not.. it won't change anything. You still need to get some strenght about you.. not to be taken advantage of.. wrongly minipulated.



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