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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting topic because I recently had a off line convo with a WW about why her BH was not sharing intimate thoughts and feelings with her. I asked if she thought that in her BH mind if she was a SAFE person to talk to about these sorts of things.

Every weakness my WW knew of about me was freely shared with her OM during her EA/PA. Those weaknesses were used against me by them both.

Now post Dday if I share anything about how I am feeling regarding her LTA I get anger in response. I clearly see the anger as defensiveness. But its still really hard to deal with. So any intimate conversation turns into a really unpleasant experience. Therefore I pretty much say NOTHING regarding my inner feelings.

Did any of you guys divorce your wife to "punish" her stupid ass for all that she did to you? That's where I'm at.

For me. I think the only reason I would ever consider D my WW would be to remove her insanity from my life. D then is like surgery removing a cancer or diseased organ. It hurts and your week for a long time afterward. But in the end you may be better for it.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So any intimate conversation turns into a really unpleasant experience. Therefore I pretty much say NOTHING regarding my inner feelings.

Ditto. And that is a really bad place to be. You are supposed to be able to be intimate with the person you are married to, and not just physical intimacy.

I get blamed for NOT sharing my intimate feelings with my W, even though most of the time when I do she either a) doesn't respond at all, b) becomes very defensive or c) turns the situation around to somehow be about her.

Ugh. I can't fucking win.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Commanche1
♂ New Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uhtred, you could divorce your wife and allow her to live with you as a Girlfriend with a past. Then she could have no promise or guarantees.

Posts: 23 | Registered: Jun 2013
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uhtred, you could divorce your wife and allow her to live with you as a Girlfriend with a past. Then she could have no promise or guarantees.

Yeh but who would be ok living with a GF that is actively sharing herself with other men? Sounds like a invitation to madness to me.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

divorce your wife to "punish" her

Is this even possible? I don't think she would ever be capable of viewing it as a punishment. Sure those on the outside might look at the life she inherited post-A and think stupid bitch didn't know what she had. But is she herself capable of the self analyzation that would be required to come to that conclusion?

For weeks? months? in my case years, WW built of a pretty big list of shit on what a terrible person I was, shitty husband, shitty father? whatever! Its all part of the false reality dehumanizing they have to do to justify there despicable actions. Face it, during the affair you are only the pond scum that pays the bills and babysits the kids so she can do have date night with Mr. wonderful. So if that's the view she has of you, do you think she'll ever come to the point where she can view the D as a bad thing. I mean you are the enemy keeping her from her story book fantasy love.

No my friend she will never see it as punishment. At least she won't see it that way anytime soon. Its hard for them to admit maybe they aren't the princess they fantasize they are in their minds.

If you D it should only be done for you, your happiness, and your kids if you need to get them away from her.

***ETA rereading it after posting, maybe too harsh, maybe a little to much generalizing, guess its one of those days absent of much faith in the humanity of waywards.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:25 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Halestorm
New Member
Member # 40905
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Biggest load of garbage I ever read.
The author must of gotten away with it himself using this excuse.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/cheating_on_your_spouse_might_just_save_your_marriage.html

Posts: 1 | Registered: Oct 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't even bother reading those articles any more. It's like getting marital advice from Bette Davis:

"An affair now and then is good for a marriage. It adds spice, stops it from getting boring... I ought to know." - Bette Davis

My wife had this paraphrased as her tag line on her Ashley Madison profile. I guess our marriage would be twice as good if I had an affair then.

It's time for a beer...last day of year two.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Halestorm - that article is a total load of garbage, I agree.

I see this is your first post, not only in the menz thread, but on this site. Welcome to SI. Whatever the circumstances are that brought you here are awful, I am sure, but you are in good hands. Take care, and welcome.


Posts: 4571 | Registered: Dec 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's time for a beer...last day of year two.

That's a big milestone, Tred. I've followed your posts, and you have worked very hard. My feeling is that your wife has worked very hard as well. How are you two doing with this date coming up?


Posts: 4571 | Registered: Dec 2010
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Halestorm. From your ability to discern what tripe that article was, sounds like you're headed the right way. Keep posting.

Tred, gonna have a large one on you today. Sending some Mojo in return. Any progress on dealing with the last betrayal? That was brutal brother and set you back quite aways. Man, was I sorry to see that. Any realizations on her part?

Mojo and strength, may year three be lighter than the first two.

ETA shoulda used the damn preview key

[This message edited by 5454real at 11:53 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2086 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you guys divorce your wife to "punish" her stupid ass for all that she did to you? That's where I'm at.

I've thought about it a lot, Uhtred. To me it often feels like my wife escaped justice for her terrible behavior. But a divorce would be an expensive and destructive injustice to our kids, and would only add to the crap that's been dished out to me.

I've also thought about dishing out justice to the OM, but can't figure out a way to do so without getting into a world of shit that would mean more injustice to me, and by extension, my kids.

I've come to the conclusion that words like "fair", "deserve" and "justice" (outside of the context of the justice system) are just words we use to describe a desired outcome. They have very little relation to what happens in real life.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Losfer. That's hard to answer. I think we are doing pretty good, but then again, I thought the same thing for the almost two years she was cheating on me. Hell, life would be great if it wasn't for that "affair thing" she did. I've been battling PTSD for a while (yes, officially diagnosed). EMDR hasn't been working, exposure therapy didn't work, I think lobotomy is next.

It's just one of those things, but without getting into my life story, my wife cheating on me was the one thing that I couldn't protect myself from. I didn't even have the shields up - and I've been through some shit. In the past, I've always been able to handle it. Unfortunately, my default mechanism that has gotten me through everything before is to cut that person out of my life and move on. Since I'm not doing that, my belief system and behavior aren't lining up - my brain trauma doc calls it "cognitive dissonance". And basically, until something gives and those two things line up, I'm pretty fucked. But I have my sense of humor, we don't want for anything material, and I'm watching my son grow into the man I've dreamed of. Life could be worse.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Halestorm, good first post. You're going to fit right in.

Tred, I see you're heading into the 2-5 year healing period, if what they say about that is true. Congrats on toughing out the first two years, brother. I'll drink to your health and happiness tonight.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 11:56 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Halestorm. The author of that article also wrote the book "The End of Men." "Therapists might be a libertine bunch but as a group they generally defer to the Puritan country—the United States—they live in, where affairs are still taboo no matter how many people actually have them." America is a "Puritan country?" LMAO

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
PowerGlo
♂ Member
Member # 34132
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too admire your courage and strength Tred. To be able to tough it out for two years shows amazing resiliency. I hope Mrs Tred realizes what a good man she has and feels fortunate that you are giving her the gift of reconciliation. I will be hoisting a few High Lifes for you tonight and quite possibly a 3 Floyds Robert the Bruce...Sending strength, mojo and all that other good stuff mate...


Married 27 years...
DDay #1 11/11/11 - AFF profile with 10-15 boy toys.
DDay #2 1/13/2012 - still at it with the AFF boys.
1/17/2014 - Divorced
I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life


Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NW Indiana
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uhtred, IMO, a truly remorseful WW didn't escape totally unscathed. True, they get to keep the M, the house and finances. BUT, they lost something a lot more important...Themselves.

Ever think what it would be like to look into the mirror and not be able to look into your own eyes without feeling a sense of revulsion? To completely understand that when given the choice you chose to destroy your core values rather than face whatever issue it was in the M? Then have to wonder what core values you really had?

Takes some a while to get there. It's not easy. I gave my FWW a year to get there. I was out the door otherwise. I fully knew what D would entail and had no fear of it, was just pissed from the financial end. (My first D left me with $50k debt, but custody of my son). It took 8 months for her to get there. Reading here(one of my R terms), reading NJF and After the Affair etc. brought her to Remorse. There literally was a moment that I witnessed. Could see it in her eyes and body language that what she had done was a whole lot bigger than what she thought. It wasn't just me and the kids who were hurt by her actions, but she had betrayed herself and now knew what that meant. It was soul searing for her to get to that point. She quite literally didn't know who she was anymore. Her whole world definition went out the window. That was my decision to commit to R moment.

Anyway, that's what decided me and the timeframe I used. You decide your timeframe and what you need.

I recommend against D as a punishment though. Use it to save you. If you decide to D, then why would you care if she's punished? Really want to hurt her? Become indifferent. If she means less than a grain of sand on a beach in Tripoli to you, that's gonna chaff her chaps more than any *punishment* you could mete out. But if you are indifferent you won't care!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2086 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - I understand about the cognitive dissonance. I understand it every morning when I wake up, and a few seconds after that warm feeling of getting a few hours of sleep wears off, I wonder, "what am I still doing here". It doesn't make any sense to me. The only thing I can chalk it up to is that I do love my wife. But these days it is a cautious and fearful love.

That transition from being a protector of our wives to becoming a protector of ourselves is a hard one, and it comes with much resistance. That transition from wanting to help others through their struggles and fix them to having to help ourselves and fix ourselves is a tough transition as well.

Having an open port of vulnerability with our wives, and then finding out that we weren't safe in that department - that breaks down the walls and quickly takes us into PTSD mode. I'm not officially diagnosed, but my therapist speculated as much.

It takes an amazing amount of strength to recover from infidelity. Whatever path is chosen, healing and strength must come into play for survival.

The fact that you are opening your heart again to your wife, and letting her in is commendable, Tred, and I laud you. The fact that your wife is doing the work, and that you are willing to accept it is commendable to both of you. I'm wishing you both many years of faithfulness and happiness to come as you come up on your second antiversary. Cheers.


Posts: 4571 | Registered: Dec 2010
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Halestorm,

Welcome to the best club nobody wants to join. Glad your here, sorry you need to be.

Back to that Slade article. Yeah, one of the lines that sealed the deal with my WW was her AP told her an A "would make her M better." Bullshit. When I Found Out she was a deer in the headlights, not thinking too much about how much better everything had suddenly gotten.

Her A was decades ago, we healed, but I recently got triggered hard and taking another ride on the roller coaster. Had a brutal anxiety attack this morning, literally shaking. W was holding me crying, "OMG, I did this to you. Does it ever pass?"

And we have a successful R, a good M, and are still very much in love. If we're not one of the "improved M's" nobody is. Fuck that.

There's a big gap between predicting that an M is likely to survive a certain kind of A and declaring that survival is proof of improvement, or that it was a good way to get there.

Hell, I broke my collarbone in a bike crash. Two years of suffering later, it was stronger that ever. Next time I fall, it will break someplace else. But it's crooked now, and it aches sometimes.

What the Hell, ya'll go out and break yours too. You'll be stronger for it.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 1:35 PM, November 8th (Friday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Big blowup with the wife last night after I discussed and showed her some of the things we talked about a page or two back. Needless to say it did not go well.

Rickards Red for me tonight, boys, almost certainly more than one. Just have to run my oldest's 6 pm hockey practice and then I am quite literally hitting the bottle.

Beer fixes everything, right?

[This message edited by Montreal at 1:41 PM, November 8th (Friday)]


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

funny how .0000001 oz of common sense will tell anyone that an A does not make a M better. Yet people still have them and write nonsense to say otherwise. And if they did make M's better wouldn't we all have them?


Beer fixes everything, right?

If only it could fix poor judgement instead of compound it I would agree


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
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