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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perspective. That’s what I hope to offer you guys as it seems that it’s been a tough week or two around here.

Many of you guys know that I’m almost exactly two years out (23 months today, to be exact). Things are wonderful. Really. We have reconciled…. and while there will always be those times…. I can honestly say that we’ve moved past the affair.

And, just for the record – my “shit” has been just as bad as anyone else’s. Try finding out that your wife rarely used a condom with the OM for 2 years, got pregnant, terminated the pregnancy, and THEN went back to having unprotected sex. Nice, huh?

But here’s the truth….. and it’s something that you guys NEED to consider. It’s something that took me a while but that I needed to come to grips with: The affair is long since over.

My wife has made it clear that the OM is long, long gone. I can see in her eyes the pain that she feels, the guilt, the shame, the humility. She has done everything humanly possible to ensure that she has established boundaries that are clear and will do anything necessary to allow me to heal.

From reading here I know that many of your wives are doing the same.

The difference between you guys and me? I have been able to let it go.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what she did with the other guy. It doesn’t matter what position they had sex in, if she called him on our anniversary, if she flew to meet him in some other city, if she took it up the ass. IT DOESN’T MATTER.

Look guys. They were having an affair. People in an affair do LOTS of stupid stuff. And yes, some of it is pre-meditated, some due to self-esteem issues, some as a fantasy/escape…. we could go on and on.

But it’s over. Nothing that you can ever do can make it be undone. So if she is willing to make it a thing of the past – you need to do the same.

As time marches on past Dday it becomes imperative that you find the good in your marriage. The good in your wife. The reason why you married her and the reason why you STILL love her. And many of you still do – despite her actions.

I know that it’s tough. It can be tough for me, too. But hanging onto the bad when the good is right around the corner is an awful way to live.

Be strong, boys. Many of you have wives who are sorry for what they’ve done. Let them back in. Live your life with passion.

Move past the affair.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

montreal, it sucks but we've all had the same thing happen-fWW's best friend knew all, aided and abetted, etc-I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire.
Somebody could have dropped a dime on her cheating ass but no one cared. Fuck'em all IMO, cut them out of your life.
When I die I will remember my fWW texting this same friend "I hate my husband"


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LifeisCrazy - it's great that you and your wife are doing well and that you've both moved on. It sets a good example for those here who are either beginning or in the midst of R. It brings hope.

On the other hand there are some of us here, including yours truly, who have wives who have been less than honest and forthcoming about their A's and have instead been stonewalling, rugsweeping, and shown little if any remorse. How does one move on in that situation? Why stay married then? For me it's strictly for financial reasons, while for others it's something else. I'm envious of your situation but can do nothing to change mine because it takes two to tango. I can however and do take care of myself.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIC,

I'm really glad for you. I'm on the same timeline - 2 years exactly this Saturday. I'm doing all I can, but I'm not where you are. It sucks, but that's life. I just remember that the scale of 2-5 years is because everybody is different. I'm not the Adrian Peterson of affair recovery. I might never completely heal. Who the fuck knows, but I'm glad for you.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Kite. To be completely honest... I don't know how anyone can continue for an extended period with a spouse who can't commit or isn't 100% remorseful.

Your profile says your Dday was 1996????? If that is the case, and I'll ask you this gently, why the hell are you still married?

Tred: Don't be mistaken. I will never fully "heal." Infidelity is a bitch that never leaves.

But I came to recognize that in order for me to heal - for US to heal - I needed to let it go. There was no benefit to continue living in the horror of the tragedy.

I still have moments, no doubt. But it took a conscious decision on my part to stop wallowing in the misery and to start enjoying life.

I read a great quote a while back.... "At a certain point you need to stop pursuing happiness and just be happy."

So true.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Kite. To be completely honest... I don't know how anyone can continue for an extended period with a spouse who can't commit or isn't 100% remorseful.

Your profile says your Dday was 1996????? If that is the case, and I'll ask you this gently, why the hell are you still married?

Actually D-Day 1 was in August of 94. I stayed with her because our son was 3 and I didn't want him to be raised by an emotionally unstable wife and a succession of her "boyfriends." He's graduating from college next month and I was able to allow him to grow up with a full-time dad. We stay together now, as explained in my above post, for financial reasons.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me and Mr. Kite are in similar situations.

My sons were young when Dday hit and I could not bear the thought of OM raising his hand to them. I also had a business I had put allot into and set aside finances for retirement. Both would have likely been lost had I D my WW.

We all cope with our own situations in our own ways. A knee jerk reaction is to just say *D your WW* as many people who have not experienced betrayal do.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am fully aware that people stay in a marriage for a host of reasons. I am in awe that you guys are able to stay with a woman who remains either unremorseful or, at the very least, is lacking in true empathy.

I am not sure that I could do it.

I mean this from my heart when I say this - I hope you guys have found happiness in whatever way you need.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can honestly say that we’ve moved past the affair.

A caveat I would add – make sure you work through the issues not past them. Moving past it was a bad choice for me and a few others that post here. It can fester and in the background it can do damage. When it sees the light of day again it is devastating. If you work through the issues I think you have to get to a point where many of the things LC is talking about require a leap of faith but I don’t know that it is letting them go as much as accepting that they are a part of your history and that it is ok to move forward even with the crap in the past. To get there I think you have to believe what you are leaving in the past truly is the past and there have been changes in the W and the M.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIC, I am happy that you have found acceptance and forgiveness.

I have found that happiness is not something I look for my M to provide me. I am good. I would be sad if my M ended, but I don't think it would hurt as much as Dday did. I know I would be fine.

This something that can't ever be forgotten and reminders are everywhere.


So if she is willing to make it a thing of the past – you need to do the same.

I don't understand this comment, can you elaborate on it? I am not trying to argue with anything you have said, but just am curious to see how this bridge can be crossed and what it looks like. Do you never talk about the A anymore ? What kind of understanding do you and your W have regarding triggers and discussions ?

I am also curious about helping you heal. This gets tossed around a lot in general terms, but I have found that only be detaching have I been able to make any real progress on my own. It seems you are on a different path.

Anyway just curious and want see what I can take from you experience to apply to my own situation.

If you don't feel comfortable elaborating that is fine too. BHs who are in a really good place seem to rare here and I am trying to find a longer term strategy that what I currently have.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BHs who are in a really good place seem to rare here

I can only speak for myself but I find that hanging out on this site too much actually brings me down. It's hard to see so many people hurting.... kind of like watching the news all day long.

So if she is willing to make it a thing of the past – you need to do the same.

Before I answer your question I want for you to realize that I understand that everyone is in a different position. So what I say may or may not be applicable.

I personally believe that there comes a time when you realize that your wife really is back in the marriage(though, as to the earlier post by Mr. Kite not everyone sees this from their spouse). That she truly is sorry for what she did. That she is remorseful and ashamed and trying to make the best of a situation that she, herself, fucked up.

Defeated Dad is, to me, a good example of this. From what I understand his wife is incredibly sorry for what she did and is doing whatever she can to make amends. Now.... I understand that not enough time may have gone by to soothe his wound. But there has to come a time where he realizes that calling his wife names is no longer appropriate. Where making sexual demands actually serves to drive her away rather than allow her to heal. He is going to have to, eventually, temper his demands or he may find he has a wife who loves him terribly, but is resentful of him "demanding" retribution.

This is something we all need to recognize. That she'll never be sorry enough. That she may never do for you what she did for him (look - it was an affair, a fantasy.... and demanding that she do certain sexual things for you "because she did it for him" may trigger HER just as badly as it does for YOU!). That there are simply some questions that she won't be able to answer.

Why did my wife continue to have unprotected sex AFTER she became pregnant?? She's a professional, incredibly smart and successful. Why would she do THAT? There is simply NO REASON - no matter how much I pry she will NEVER be able to explain it. She was stupid. Period. And I have to live with that (or, obviously, leave).

My point is that if she is truly making the attempt - and we all know what that means - then there will come a time to swallow hard, take a leap of faith, and let it go. You will have to recognize that continuing to hold the affair over her head, or shoving it down her throat, actually does more harm than good and, in fact, stands in the way of your own happiness.

What kind of understanding do you and your W have regarding triggers and discussions?

Anything can be asked at any time. She answers me truthfully and completely.

She is also proactive. If something happens or if we're out at a place that she sees me shutting down she immediately grabs my hand, kisses me, reminds me how much she loves me. If necessary, knowing that I am a physical guy who often reconnects through sex - she'll take me home and do that. Whatever it takes.

But you know what? I am also realizing that it's time for ME to stop burdening HER. We often pass a hotel where they spent a lot of time together. For the longest time it sent me into a tizzy. Then she learned how to make me feel better about it. Now, I hardly think of it - but even when I do - instead of making a big deal of it (or even making a nasty comment) I realize it for what it is (they were in an affair! They're going to fuck somewhere!) and I just push past it. There is no benefit in my continuing to bang her over the head with it. What does that get me.... or her??

So I guess my answer is that it takes a two-pronged approach. Your wife has to be willing to reach out and be proactive so that you know, without a doubt, that she is 100% all in and will do anything, ANYTHING, to make you feel better. And you need to recognize that continuing to hammer her with the affair simply prolongs the affairs' effect and, ultimately, prevents you from re-establishing the love and safety of the marriage. Communication and the willingness to move past the affair are key.

In my humble opinion, sometimes instead of drawing away from her it's important that you move TOWARD her. I encourage you guys who have remorseful wives to take that leap of faith and start enjoying your marriage again. As I said, stop pursuing happiness and just be happy.

I know this was a bit long but I hope I give you a bit of insight. And I hope it helps.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife has to be willing to reach out and be proactive so that you know, without a doubt, that she is 100% all in and will do anything, ANYTHING, to make you feel better.

this must be the key. I don't have it.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife has to be willing to reach out and be proactive so that you know, without a doubt, that she is 100% all in and will do anything, ANYTHING, to make you feel better.

this must be the key. I don't have it.

I DO have that, but I'm still an ass about the whole thing at times. Good approach LIC. As someone on here once said, get busy reconciling or get busy divorcing. Anguished limbo is no place to be.

Now I just need to convince myself to act accordingly.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIC, how long did it take for you to accept your wife's efforts? I know everyone is different, but in your case how long did it take before you trusted your wife's efforts? Not trust her on everything else, but trust her efforts?

My wife is doing a lot... But sometimes I think it is not enough and other times I think she is only in say 90% and not the full deal. I sometimes think she is holding back to protect herself, in case I am the one who leaves. But she says that is not the case. How long, and how, did you learn to trust her efforts?

I want to, but... Well we all know what that "but" is, right?

Otherwise, awesome posts man. I really needed them.


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get the discomfort when around friends/family who if not "Friends of the Affair" were at least aware of it prior to dday. Here is what FWW did to address that big stinking elephant for us. She apologized to these people in person in front of me. She apologized for putting them in a difficult position. She apologized for saying things about me that were not true, and exaggerating things that were in order to justify her As and behavior. She told them how embarrassed she is now of her behavior then.

Just an idea, but it gets out in the open what everyone is thinking about. Her apologies made it clear that she was staying with me and was grateful for the opportunity.

Ats, how did you do this? Like, actually do it? I would find it incredibly awkward, if not forced or even faked, even if the sentiment wasn't. What did you all sit down and your wife said "oh by the way" and then once finished you go back to talking about the weather or something? I would like to suggest this to my wife, but how does it actually happen?


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So if she is willing to make it a thing of the past – you need to do the same.

Hi LiC, I see you posted this important addendum to the statement above.

Your wife has to be willing to reach out and be proactive so that you know, without a doubt, that she is 100% all in and will do anything, ANYTHING, to make you feel better.

My FWW is willing to make her As a thing of the past. She has new boundaries, she is working on her behaviors and perceptions, and she no longer blames me for everything. While she has been focused on her healing. I have been left to heal myself, which I have. What I have not successfully healed is my feelings for and relationship with FWW.

So I consider myself reconciled and healed from the A and dday. I do live my life with passion, and the door is open for FWW. But she has to walk through it. She has to overcome her shame and anxiety and be able to talk to me when there is a problem. She has to be sexual and touching more like once a week than the current once (or less) a month.

I have moved towards her, I have accepted and moved past what she did, but I cannot make her a willing and healthy participant in an emotionally intimate relationship. That part is still on her. I really think our issue is that she is more comfortable as a roommate than a wife. That is about her, not her A, and nothing I can fix or do anything about. I think that for some of us here in BM we are past the A-crap, but our FWWs are still impaired when it comes to being a fully functioning member of an intimate relationship.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats, how did you do this? Like, actually do it? I would find it incredibly awkward, if not forced or even faked, even if the sentiment wasn't.

Montreal,

It was FWW's idea, something she arrived at after sessions with IC/MC where he talked with her about the difficulties in the family/friend relationships and what she could do to right her wrongs. In general, most people were uncomfortable with the topic, and as soon as she was done saying what she had to say they were very happy to move on to other topics.

She just brought it up, said it, and moved on. Often it was not while I was a part of the discussion, but she called me over for the purpose and then I moved on to what I had been doing and they went back to what they were discussing.

Her daughters she apologized for putting them in difficult positions of knowing, for demonstrating poor behavior, and for mis-characterizing me and my behaviors. Her sister she apologized to for putting her in the difficult position of knowing, and for being overly flirty and attracted to her H (FWW at least had an EA with her BIL). To my parents she apologized for her behavior and the A.

Was it effective? It was for me as a sign that FWW was committed to me and the M as opposed to mouthing words and feelign trapped. With one stepdaughter we have a good relationship, the other still sees me through FWW's pre-dday descriptions, hates me, and blames me for all that is wrong in her life. FWW's sister is so wrapped up in her own issues and over medication I do not think anything registered. Her close friend she told on the phone while she and I were in the car together.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:29 AM, November 6th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for responding LIC.

I have stopped punishing my W regarding the A, except for the rare outburts. I see that she suffers herself on her own worse than anything I can do. The mere mention of infidelity stops her in her tracks and she brings it back up again. I for one would prefer not to discuss it all the time. Just last night she asked me to get her phone. I got it and it had a message waiting. I looked and saw it was from a male co-worker. (her A was not with a co-worker and was not conducted via phone). She walked in and saw me looking. I was startled and she started to get all down. Honestly I was looking because my brother in law was texting her earlier about an upcoming trip and I thought it was related to that. I was not "checking up." She got real quiet and sad. She told me she does not want me to worry about what she is doing and I can look any time I feel that I need to. That was a good answer (I think). She responded to co-worker as he is going to watch our dog during our trip. It walked a little too much into the personal (His son was excited to have a dog for a little while) and I expressed that it seemed a little too personal and I was not comfortable with it. I don't think there is anything to worry about, but things are different. I question things a little more than I would have if we did not have this "past." It was clear that this thing was still hanging around even though it was discussed. It was a small thing really that brought us both down. It took up more of my head space last night than I would of liked it to. We were intimate later and it prevented me from attaching any emotion to it. I had needs and they were met. I did not feel any emotional attachment, just like right after Dday. My W offered (her way of trying to show love, physical touch person here.) and I figured, "why not ?"

My first thought was not "She is screwing around again." So I think that shows how far I have come with trust. So that is good. I hate to think this is the rest of my life. One innocent text msg away from ruining the evening.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats, how did you do this? Like, actually do it? I would find it incredibly awkward, if not forced or even faked, even if the sentiment wasn't. What did you all sit down and your wife said "oh by the way" and then once finished you go back to talking about the weather or something? I would like to suggest this to my wife, but how does it actually happen?

I would like to chime in on this topic. I did 2 things about this. First, for "friends of the affair" or anyone that knew, they were gone. Luckily my wife did not have an old HS friend or lifelong best friend that had to be cut out. But she did have a few coworker friends that knew, some of them pretty good friends and she agreed to go NC with them. She and I discussed the list and she agreed. Then she sent an email to each of them explaining why she had to do it and that she was 100% on board with going this route. As far as I know, she has maintained NC with this group. Her subsequent job change helped with this.

Regarding other people that didn't know about the A but were privy to all of her insults towards me and her line of thinking that I was the ultimate A-hole that she needed to D- (this included her brother, sister-in-law, parents and a few friends) for this group, we met each of them in person and sat down and she said SHE was the A-hole, SHE was caught up in the A and she created the monster she portrayed me as. This was awkward, but it was a big step to start our R for me to see her willing to do that for me. I demanded this as a condition of R. I knew she had a false image of our marriage and my role and I needed the air cleared and things set straight.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2013
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that for some of us here in BM we are past the A-crap, but our FWWs are still impaired when it comes to being a fully functioning member of an intimate relationship.

Perfectly put. Thanks for that. Mrs. Kite wants all the benefits of having a husband without doing the work of intimacy, affection, and transparency. It was like that before the A's and continues on to this day. So it's a roommate relationship for us. She refuses to go to IC or MC, and when she's not working, she sits around and watches the shopping channels on TV. How can anyone grow and change this way and become a better person? So I've given up on that ever happening.

As for me, I've carved out a life of my own that's independent of her. She has her life, I have my mine, and the bills get paid. After 30 years with her and at the age of 62, this is what it is. I no longer have visions of starting over with someone else. I made a really bad choice in marrying her and not getting a D when things began to unravel in the early 90's. But I chose to stay and raise our son and give him a chance at some normalcy. Choices have consequences.


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