One word of advice - don't listen to a word that character jjct writes.
Just wanted to throw something out there. Been doing a lot of thinking lately about deal-breakers, and if the A was a deal-breaker for me. My W and I are in R, but I'd have to say that I'm having a hard time being 'all-in' on R. I'm wondering if part of that is because, deep down, the A was a deal-breaker, and I just can't quite get past that.
Anyone else feel like that sometimes? Just been a hard couple of days. I'm really trying hard to see the good and to feel like there is hope. I don't want to D. Just struggling... maybe this was a deal-breaker. Maybe there's just no getting past that?
She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.
I sometimes use SI to help me work things out, and I used to post some raw stuff that I definitely didn't want my W to see.
More than 2 years after D-Day, I asked her to join so she could get help from other WSes that I just didn't want to give her. She definitely can post stuff here that I shouldn't read.
Our agreement is: I don't read her stuff; she doesn't read any thread I start, but she can read my responses if she comes across them. It works because each of us is really in R 100%.
some people have been stalked by WSes in false R. A few people have had their IDs changed under the covers because their WSes were so evil.
Be careful. Be clear on your ground rules.
MC & SI
Our MC checked out the site and hasn't objected to our using it.
The comment about pain on SI makes sense, but if your MC saw 'bad attitudes', I question the MC's competence. Anger and/or despair in the face of betrayal isn't a bad attitude. Projecting one's feelings onto others is normal for people.
I wouldn't trust that MC, but then you don't appear to. Gender is irrelevant, IMO - our MC is a woman, and she still confronts my W way more than she confronts me.
But, I write everything as if she's reading over my shoulder. Not that I don't vent sometimes, but I don't censor myself except in one important way. I won't write anything that I either haven't or wouldn't be willing to say to her face.
I think that's one small aspect of being authentic. I do think it is possible to fall into Wayward Thinking on SI (or any other social media) in the sense that your open your heart and your hurts to others in ways that you wouldn't with your spouse. I won't do that.
ETA To avoid generalizations, I am sure that there are MC's out there that are good at dealing with adultery, particularly the special anguish that the menz suffer from it. I just haven't met one yet that's even close to as insightful as the guys on this thread. Actually, I haven't yet met one that wasn't toxic to us. But I'm SURE they exist. They must. Some of you say so.
[This message edited by MoreWould at 5:07 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]
In the weeks after dday she came back here after shit kept going wrong. I kind of latched on when I saw it.
i have read my story here many times so no real reason to repeat it, my wife left when i confronted her, & still denies the A. not many folks know about it, i just told my brother yesterday. d-day was august 9.
her family members have called to tell me i must be mistaken. i filed for D & cant consider anything else until she accept responsibility & then i still dont think it works.
Technically correct is the best type of correct.
Most of the WS on the Wayward forum are great. But sometimes you see some WS who is using SI to play the right cards to their BS while still hiding and doing stuff behind their backs. But the BS should be able to see through the bullshit...
I told my W about the site. She never came here. I can't empathize with betraying your SO. She can't empathize with the pain I felt. My definition of love is not the same of hers. We made it though so there's that.
Foolsuchasi: you are doing the right thing. I do not believe in limbo: you're either with me or against me.
Our MC told me that this site was replete with people with overwhelming anguish and bad attitudes, and that I shouldn't come back, if I knew what was good for me.
Obviously that particular MC has never been betrayed and has no understanding of the anguish that results from adultery. The result is that this individual has zero empathy, the inability to relate to another empathetically due to similar life experiences. Reading something in a book and actually experiencing it are not the same thing.
This site is replete with people trying to work their way through either pain that was inflicted on them(BS) or caused by them(WS). When I was kicking drugs and alcohol, the only ones that could help me were those who had walked in my shoes and made it out the other side safely. Same situation here.
There are those who have good advice based on the success they've had rehabilitating their marriage. Then there are those like me, who for whatever reason, had no success and can only pass on what not to do. Both types are relevant and needed, depending on the person reading their posts and what their situation is.
At the end of the day, I don't write anything here that I wouldn't or haven't said to my FWW.
I won't write anything that I either haven't or wouldn't be willing to say to her face.
Exactly! Mrs. Kite hates this site with a passion and that's just too bad. She spends her free time watching the shopping networks on TV, buying crap and sending it back. At least she's keeping the folks at UPS employed.
One scary thing I noticed over the weekend is that I've become more like her. I used to be sociable and upbeat but now I'm getting extremely quiet and closed-up. It's like my life is becoming a permanent 180 with everyone around me.
Fool, mine still won't admit what went down.
That's a bad place to be man. Truly bad place to be.
maybe this was a deal-breaker. Maybe there's just no getting past that?
I have mucho respect for the fWS's on this site. They are not the societal norm by any means. The SI WS's that do the work are the unicorns in a vast sea of donkeys. If my STBXW had become remorseful and magically morphed into a unicorn and done everything right I can now honestly say I eventually would have still filed. It just took me longer to realize that her A's were in fact dealbreakers above and beyond her not trying to reign in the shitstorm she created. The lying and deceit are a part of my STBXW as far as I am concerned and will always be in her so for me the A's were a dealbreaker.
Everyone situation is kind of similar but they are also unique to each of us. So ultimately the question of whether it's a dealbreaker or not can only be answered by you. Plenty of betrayed Menz in this forum and betrayed womenz on the site that do make it work.
For me I can tell you that I have ZERO regrets about my decisions to file for D, well maybe that I didn't do it sooner. I don't miss her, I don't miss us, I don't miss the future we will never have, i'm pretty cool actually. I'm sitting back working through my anger, loving my kids, enjoying being single, and waiting for that mythical "sign" so I know when I am ready to date again.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:51 PM, October 14th (Monday)]
I know it's rug sweeping. Just don't know how to change it.
For me theres now way I can ever really know. Too many years of M. Too many years of inappropriate behavior.
I think that knowing if there were other affairs is only really important if you feel the need to forgive your WW. You need to know WHAT you are forgiving.
I have chosen to not divorce and not forgive. That doesnt mean I punish WW or even mention her LTA much if at all. I can not forgive a person and still be social with them. I will never trust them of course but I can still do all the social stuff without a problem.
For some of us a LTA is not a forgivable act. And yet circumstances are such that we decide to stay in the M. In this situation we have to figure out a way to live with ourselves and our WW. For me that way is to not forgive and live for me as well as staying in the moment.
Some would call it rug sweeping and they are probably at least partly right. But I call it figuring out how to survive and hopefully thrive in the environment you are given. Making the best of the cards you are dealt.
As for any previous affairs. I assume there may have been some. Perhaps some inappropriate behaviors that were in fact EAs. Maybe even PAs. Theres no way I can know.
How broken can a vase be? If you hit it once with a hammer or hit it 20 times its still just as broken.
Different sitch here, but I really identify with what you're saying. Thank you.
I love SI, but there is this ideology that things must go a certain way for a successful R. You know, remorseful wayward, full disclosure, immediate NC with the AP, yada, yada. Everything else is "rug sweeping", aka "one of the great evils of the world".
Our A's and our R happened a long time ago, before all this came about. I won't say SI is wrong, or even that it wouldn't have been better for us. I in particular paid a heavy lifelong price for keeping our M together. I'm sometimes jealous when I see those model waywards here because I sure as Hell didn't get that at the time, or even now.
And, I'd like to forgive her, but don't know enough to know what I'm forgiving and I have made my peace with that. She says I think "she is a bad person". No, I think she is a good person who made a big mistake, I'm just not sure how big.
I've pieced together my own timeline and narrative of her A and decided to accept it. There's too much missing, and too little corroboration from her to believe it, even though I want to. So, I just accept it and that has to be enough.
We will celebrate our 40th anniversary soon. I'm a lot happier about that than I am sad about the past, but I am both. That's life, it comes with hurts.
I think I get what you're saying. Hell, I'd say that reconciliation as you've experienced it was probably the norm for a very, very long time. For a great many people, it probably still is. I think the 'SI approach' towards reconciliation is geared towards destroying what's left of the shattered marriage and slowly re-building it to more closely resemble the two healthy people therein. Basically, that the two people involved are damn-sure going to be living authentically, and if those two healthy people choose to be married, then awesome...but if not, at least they are both in a better place as individuals. That's not to say that it's the ONLY approach, because there are clearly other ways to get from point A to Z, all equally difficult.
One of the most illuminating things that I read early on here was a post where WAL said something along the lines of (paraphrasing)'You're going to heal one way or another. Years from now, you won't be able to remember the emotional reality of the time after DDAY...we're not meant to live in trauma mode forever.' I really took that to heart. I knew that I could just close my eyes, cover me ears and talk really loudly, and push all the bad affair thoughts away for a few years, and eventually I'd stop thinking about it....but was that how I wanted to deal with it?
Look, realistically speaking, any of us who are trying for Reconciliation are already taking the biggest, most illogical, most counterintuitive, high stakes gamble out there. We are taking the idiotic risk of allowing a demonstratedly toxic, damaged, deceitful and dangerous person to come back and join into our lives. Back not only into our lives, but eventually (long term goal) into our hearts.
You want to know why your BH is not all "kiss your ass," lovey dovey, "betta than evah," get-over-it-cause-you-haven't-contacted-OM-for 4-whole-days-already? You want to know why he is pissed when the only thing you care about is your withdrawal from Mr. Wonderful?
Well, read the quote again. And live his reality with a soulless spouse that would pull a trigger on a gun pointed at his heart just to ride the OMs dick one more time.
The real question you should be asking yourself is this "Why the hell would he stay with you?"
Now, if you can figure out something positive that, from his perspective, would make him want to stay - DO IT. That "thing" might be to make it a little safer for him to risk R (like, oh, say, HONESTY), then implement it. That thing might be to own your shit and quit blaming him for YOUR adultery.
Regardless, I am thankful my WW figured this out on her own...
That thing might be to own your shit and quit blaming him for YOUR adultery.
When I stir the shit-pot, I still get the "because I thought my marriage was over" bullshit... which, I equate to "It's really YOUR fault that I fucked other men."
fWW has done a lot of work on herself, and doesn't look at me so critically anymore... I'm in a mini-180 - permanently. I do what I please and if it pleases her, then so be it. I'm not a dick to her, and we just got back from a little 3-day getaway in Cancun... but, I'm not co-dependent as I once was.
My self-confidence isn't the best - still - but whose is, after dealing with your wife's sexual romps? (I really hate the word 'affair'... it's too nice a word for a shit circumstance.)
D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married
I really hate the word 'affair'
The SI WS's that do the work are the unicorns in a vast sea of donkeys.
...is getting enshrined on the quote thread!
It's a process, though, not a project. There's no known end-point. You start where you are and keep making changes to improve your M and your life.
And there are other demands on your energy - job, kids, family, friends, and just day-to-day bumping up against other people who won't kow tow to you.
I think keeping an image of an ideal R in mind helps achieve it, but you have to keep in mind, too, that it's a challenge to get there, and each of us gets to choose how close to the ideal we have to be.