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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: How to Pull BS Out of Her Deep, Dark Spiral
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good afternoon, everyone.

TCD has been going through a particularly bad stretch these past few days. I am doing my best to reassure her that I am here for her, letting her vent her feelings, letting her cry on my shoulder, etc.

My concern is the depths of her depression. She has repeatedly expressed desires to die. Her first text to me this morning was "Damn. I woke up." She asked me to pray that she would be hit by a tractor-trailer. She said she wished that her mother had aborted her because she didn't want any more children anyway. She says she is a waste of air. Her sole purpose in life is to suffer. I am trying my best to just be here for her, but how can I not be concerned for her safety at this point?

I feel like she is a very smart woman, and is smart enough to not say that she is going to harm herself, because that would give me evidence to take action on her behalf. Should I really not be worried? I understand the pain she feels. Whether believes it or not, I do feel awful thinking back on my actions during the A. The way I completely disregarded her and our children for the sake of having my ego stroked by the OW. The fact that I let my BW be in the same room with me and OW while the A was going on, the way I barely acknowledged when she left because I was talking to OW. I feel the pain of her miscarriage, the loss of our child. I feel all of this pain.

I am very worried about her. I don't know what to do about it.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry. Wondering if she's on ADs?

((TCD))


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4522 | Registered: Dec 2010
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO she needs to talk to a doctor. Be as available and understanding and supportive as you can, but I think she should talk to a professional about treating depression that bad.

eta:

As for taking action on her behalf, be careful of that if you mean forcing her to go to a hospital. Unwilling admittance or whatever its called has a serious influence on medical records I believe.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:44 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7367 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

N, she is not on ADs... She has been in the past, pre-A.

I do not want to force her to do anything, believe me. I just want for her to be healthy. These thoughts are not a recent occurrence. I know I can't heal her, but I wish she would not write off these feelings as "the only way to deal with the shit life keeps dumping on her" and "how is she supposed to feel?" I just feel so lost and helpless on this one...


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
Reality
♀ Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I tell you a story, TTMU? To give you some more perspective?

My WH's affairs kind of screwed up my health for a bit. The intense stress made me anemic and all manner of fun stuff. I had to have two surgeries because of it. Sadly, this last surgery last week took away any chance to have another baby - something I have wanted for a long time. In every sense, I am mourning that baby. (Connect how this is like TCD and her angel baby.)

My WH and I are trying for reconciliation but frankly, because of his choices and what behaviors enabled him to MAKE those choices, he is not close to empathizing with me to the degree that he should. He thinks he understands my pain, but he doesn't really. Know why? 'Cause he's never had to be in a similar position. (Connect this with YOUR experiences versus TCD's experiences.)

The fact that you can say this:

I understand the pain she feels. Whether believes it or not, I do feel awful thinking back on my actions during the A.

...followed by this:

The way I completely disregarded her and our children for the sake of having my ego stroked by the OW. The fact that I let my BW be in the same room with me and OW while the A was going on, the way I barely acknowledged when she left because I was talking to OW.

...sounds an awful lot like you are trying to understand, but you're still looking at it from your side of the situations. The description is all about where YOU were, what YOU were doing. In other words, YOUR feelings and interpretations of some of the dynamics at play during the affair. That you understand. That you feel her pain.

Sorry, but nope. You have an idea of what her pain may be like, but YOU CAN'T KNOW. You can't because she's never put you in that position. All you can do is listen to what she tells you and try to understand.

Because of that, there's going to be gaps in what you can know. It sounds to me like TCD is in pain - BIG PAIN. It sounds to me like she is talking to you about it. It also looks to me like instead of finding more ways to communicate with her about it, you're relying on assuming you know the gig.

Which you can't. Reconciliation isn't about finding a set workable pattern and then doing a "rinse and repeat" until everything is magically better. The same level of effort won't cut it. Sometimes, she is going to need you to pull out the stops and get your hands dirty. Yes, that means that even if you think you're trying, you have to find a way to DO MORE.

Talk with her. She's giving you information. Talk to her. Reassure her. This is about you giving more of yourself to her. Like: "TCD, I'm so sorry. I love you. I need you. I know you hurt, honey. I will do whatever it takes to make this up to you. I need you here. You're everything to me. Talk to me more. Let me be with you."

Be sweet. Go out of your way to take care of her. She needs to talk. She needs to talk about the pain. Help provide an environment that makes her feel safe and valued so that she can. This isn't the time for "normal level effort."


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that it is probably best that she talks to a professional.

A couple of weeks ago I was in a similar spot and have been there a few times before. I also wish I would die and tell fWH this. I also told him that I wished my mother had aborted me.... It is a HORRIBLE place to be. So scary and black. My fWH sticks by me throughout and it DOES help, even if it doesn't look that way to him at the time. For me, I think hormones play into it... PMS seems to send me into the spiral and once I am there I battle to get out of it. I have spoken to my IC and she is going to have me do some survey thing?, to establish if I need anti-depressants.

I have found a change of scenery helps, I strongly resist the idea of getting out of the house, but fWH or the kids badger me and once I am out it really does help. The longer I lie on the bed staring at the wall, the worse the obsessive thoughts become and the deeper I spiral - that's just me, may be different for TTCD.

{{TCD}} and {TTMU}}


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 911 | Registered: Oct 2012
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TCD's spiral definitely appears to be tied to PMS and her period, if even solely because of the miscarriage.

And I would like to clarify a few things about my previous statement. I know that I can't KNOW how she feels. I can put in the effortto try and understand her feelings, know why she feels how she does. I can never truly feel what she does. And my descriptions of my actions? Yes, I do understand that I stated them from my POV. However, I fully get where the pain stems from in regards to those actions: "You had me and OW in the same room, at the same time? You talked to her like I wasn't even there, flaunting your dirty little secret in my face. Did it get you off knowing that I was totally clueless? Did it feel good to know you were carrying on with her, thinking about what it would be like to fuck her while I sat with your brother and sister waiting for your band to go on? And then barely even taking a moment away from tour time with your whore to say goodbye while I left to go put the children to bed? I mean so little to you that you carried on like this even after I went home without feeling the least but guilty? You knew tha if I found out about this that I would want to divorce you... AND YOU DID IT ANYWAY????? Do I have any value to you at all?? Me, our children, our life together meant so little to you that you'd risk it all to get a little ego boost from some tramp??"

So no, I can't feel her pain... But I do get it.

That being said, I do still fear for her well-being. I just wish she would at least talk to a professional.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi TTMU. I've noticed the talk of death and suicide in her posts in the last year. Especially after losing the baby. I believe TCD is deeply depressed. Severely depressed.

I can't remember...why isn't she on AD's now?


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Reality
♀ Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talking to a professional may absolutely give her the best results.

My point is that anytime we assume we understand, especially when the situation changes (getting better or worse), it sets up some bad momentum and complacency. The times of greatest issue between me and my WH have been when I was in a huge amount of pain and he felt - by doing what he normally did - he was already doing what needed to be done, regardless of changes in the situation.

If TCD isn't able to communicate how she's feeling with you, then yes, you need to help her find someone she can.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Confused-

I don't know why she isn't on ADs. Her mother has tried to get her to see a professional, since depression and bipolar disorder and other mental health issues run in her family. She patently refuses, but doesn't say exactly why.

Two possibilities that she has tipped me off to are that 1) being on ADs means she won't b able to get pregnant. And 2) She thinks I suggest ADs because it will make my life easier somehow, that I just want her to take them so that she is OK With the shitty situation I put her in.

But I am glad you have noticed these sentiments from her on your own, and it's not just my word.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah,yes. I felt the same way about AD's...that my WH just wanted me to take them because they would make his life easier.

Then,one day, I decided I didn't give a shit if it did make his life easier....that *I* was suffering,and *I* needed them.

Maybe she just hasn't gotten to that point yet?

When she talks of death...where do your 3 daughters factor in? They need their mommy. She adores those kids. That is quite clear. But,I just don't understand how she can talk about death...knowing what it is like to mourn a loved one. THIS is what causes me to worry..and I have been worried about her.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gnerally speaking, if she says she wants to die, I say that the children need you, even if you don't believe that I do. Then the response is along the lines of "They don't need me, they need you. All I can provide them with is love, while you can provide them wih love, food, shelter, and so much more. And you can always find another woman, obviously, to love those children, too. They don't need me. The world doesn't need me. I am just the universe's whipping post. My only purpose is to be the butt of one cosmic joke after another."

I'm paraphrasing, but I assure you I am not exaggerating.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Their mother is irreplaceable.



BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How about asking her to go for a walk with you. Do something with her to get those endorphins going.

If not with you, is there a friend or family member she may be more receptive to. Could you ask them to encourage her to get out & exercise?


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 306 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TTMU, you seriously need to make her go to the Dr, and to a Psychiatrist. This is not just depression. This is severe, and needs attention.

Go to her, tell her if she won't do it for herself to do it for you. Hand her the phone, and make her call and get an appointment today.

Seriously if you saw her in the bathroom vomiting every day, all day wouldn't you make her go to the Dr? Or if she had some other medical issue? This is the same. She needs this, and honestly right now is so sick she can't make that decision on her own.

((((TTMU, & TCD))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7803 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
TimeToManUp
♂ Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Their mother is irreplaceable

Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. I let her know this every time she says it.

And she does exercise. However, her exercising is just one more reminder of the baby she lost, because had it survived, TCD would be home nursing a newborn right now... Not exercising.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if she says she wants to die

If she keeps doing this, then perhaps calling 911 and having her committed may be the answer since she's not willing to get help on her own and she's only getting worse.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13647 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can't fix this, no matter what you do. She has got to see a Dr, now.

HL had to force me to see a Dr at one point after my brother's suicide. When I was talking the same way.

She needs to go. This is no longer about the A, or the mc, this has gone deeper. She needs to go to a Dr.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4521 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
CatchyUsername
♀ Member
Member # 39415
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too have been where your wife is - just about a month ago. It was so bad that I left home and checked myself into a hotel for a day and slept and cried because I felt that I was so insignificant to anyone in my life that I did not go to any of them. I was ANGRY because my mom is still alive and there is no way that I could kill myself and put her through that.

Luckily WH reached out to my IC and she explained to me the following: that once the depression sets in to this degree we are looking at a chemical imbalance in the brain that cannot and will not correct itself without a push in the right direction - thus I am on zoloft - a tiny dose - to make it through this transition.

Through it all WH was kind and compassionate and re-assuring - and I heard it a little bit but mostly i was so sad i didn't care.


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jun 2013
GraceisGood
♀ Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, I am going to go against the tide here. I know what I say could be terribly wrong, so please read it with that awareness, but this is how I see it from my personal life experience.

I have thought, if not said, all those things you posted TCD saying and feeling. I have had more than one person tell me they can see why I feel like a universal whipping post as my life does look that way, it really does. I do not say those things because they are far fetched and I am just trying to get attention, I only speak what I feel is truth and I do not speak of it often, I keep most of these thoughts inside and under lock and key as I do not trust others reactions to them.

When I do share them, I am doing so in a serious way of reaching out to be understood. I may feel like being "gone" would be better than the pain I feel, but I would never do what was necessary to "go" because I am way too responsible for that, I may have my flaws, and have screwed my kids up in other areas, but I would never purpose to inflict that kind of messup on them, or my parents for that matter, so in reality those "going" statements are feelings, not true intent. (of course TCD may be different in this regard, and it should be taken seriously).

If my H were to call 911 when I was in one of my down times I do not know if I would be able to forgive that, I would see that as a betrayal-one that would be the "one and done" kind, which obviously the infidelity was not the deal breaker, but this would be (this is me, TCD may see it differently).

When I am in this frame I am reaching out desperately to be understood, and to have my life seen clearly, not with pretense or what it should be, but the stark nakedness of what it really is.

I sooo want to feel I am worth the effort it takes to understand another and that someone actually desires to do that (not someone who gets paid to do that).

I do believe you are fully "awake" to your role in her "whipping boy " status, but do you really understand what that means to her? Do you really see what she is trying to convey? It is kind of like love languages, you may be putting in the work/effort in physical touch, but she is a words of affirmation gal, so the hugs and the touches are not reaching what she needs to feel your understanding.

The few times I have felt "understood" have been such amazing things, even if it was just 1/100 of understanding, it was sooo much better than being alone in misunderstanding.

I wish you both the best through this and I realize that I may be way off in how I perceive this issue and do not want to dissuade you from going down the "professional" route if that is what is needed.

Grace

ETA, Reality has much insight IMO, perhaps read her responses again.

[This message edited by GraceisGood at 3:35 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3433 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
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