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User Topic: First session of MC..
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 2:12 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We had our first session of MC yesterday. Is it just me or is MC really awkward? I know it was our first session and it's very early days in R and it will take time etc, but I felt really sad the two of us were sitting there. The Counsellor was trying to understand the finer cultural nuances, which I guess are important for her to absorb so she can help us better.

The A didn't come up and I have a feeling it won't unless I initiate it.. Here's a snippet of the conversation..

Counsellor: So we've been talking for an hour so far, have you found it useful? Is it a conversation you would have had if I wasn't here?

H: No, nothing my wife has said is new, and I haven't said anything she hasn't heard before either

Me: I agree with H, nothing has been said that hasn't been said over the years, although I feel this may be a useful arena to discuss things that are difficult to discuss in real life

C: Do you know what she means? What could she be referring to?

H: She's referring to how I've never supported her and I assume she wants to dwell on things that happened in the past and how I could've been a better husband...

I'm really scared to bring up the A in the sessions but it has to be done right? Even if he avoids the topic it's up to me to bring it up? The MC knows nothing about it...


Posts: 354 | Registered: Mar 2013
authenticnow
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Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 5:27 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I think it must be brought up. You could even say, he doesn't like to talk about it but I feel like it needs to be addressed so we can deal with our issues instead of rugsweep them.

What did the C say after your H's last response? To me, that is the perfect opening for her to dig in.

Give it another session or two to see if this C is a good fit for the two of you.

Good luck!


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 34775 | Registered: Sep 2007
SurprisinglyOkay
♀ Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Give it more time!
My first few sessions with my IC were awkward, even though I had been to her a few years before.
After a month or so I brought Chicho in with me and that was awkward too!
You should bring the A up.

[This message edited by broevil at 6:29 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1105 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think counseling, in general, can be really awkward at first. Even with a therapist you really click with, it's just strange to spend an hour talking about yourself; I think we're culturally molded NOT to do this!

How did you respond to your husband's last statement (or, rather, the last one posted)? I know you believe he rug-sweeps, but if you didn't speak up, then it might be worth exploring your role in that rug-sweeping (in your own mind) before your next session, so that you become more comfortable addressing the stuff around which you've been conditioned (or chosen) to tiptoe.

At some point, if you wish to move forward constructively, you'll need to pipe up. When given the opportunity (and an MC appointment is one of those opportunities--though I agree that the first meeting might not have been a comfortable or safe-feeling time, yet), you might say something like, "What I would like to address is an affair I had, which we really haven't faced, head-on. I know it's painful, but to move forward constructively, I think we need to gather more tools so that communicating about the tough stuff isn't disabling."

I know you're frustrated with your husband's tendency to rug-sweep, but your role in that needs examination, as well. It is kind of sad that your husband shouldered this question alone (and I realize that I am forming this conclusion based just on what you've posted, so forgive me if there was more, and I have misinterpreted). If he feels you're there to discuss how HE could be a better husband---or should have been in the past--it might be worth verbalizing that, really, MC is about becoming a more effective couple.


BS-me, 52
WH(Mr. Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS17
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 7968 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
heforgotme
♀ Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm really scared to bring up the A in the sessions but it has to be done right?

Yes, and the fact that the counselor didn't know could have been part of the awkwardness. There was a huge elephant in the room that she was unaware of.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1039 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
1DumbHusband
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Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Before when I had an EA, our past MC sessions were not productive because I did not own my faults and errors in my marriage. I did exactly what your H is doing. I rug swept, gas lighted (by saying that my BS just wanted to review how bad I was and kept bringing up "issues"). It wasn't productive because I wasn't being honest and I never owned my actions. Now we are both in IC and we have our first MC (same C) next week. We both feel a lot more comfortable this time because I'm being honest and owning my faults and errors and the actions that brought us to where we are. I'm working on fixing me and the only way I can do that is to be honest and own my old bad behaviors. I hope you guys can reach that point and move forward with your MC. It can get expensive to see the MC and not really get anything addressed. I've been there!


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
Trying33
♀ Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"What I would like to address is an affair I had, which we really haven't faced, head-on. I know it's painful, but to move forward constructively, I think we need to gather more tools so that communicating about the tough stuff isn't disabling."

I love this but am wondering if I'll ever have the guts to say this. It needs to be said I know. I need to build up the courage.

I'm so conflicted as the rug-sweeping serves a purpose. It means I can continue being a "good girl" in his eyes. He doesn't know the sordid details and as many of you have called me out on, I can avoid any repercussions of my actions. At the same time I KNOW it will always be a wedge between us and as convenient as it is to mutually rug sweep I know MC will be a waste of time if we do this.

Has anyone successfully moved on with their M without going into details? Why is it important we discuss the A stuff? I seem to be forgiven. We are in MC and committed to trying to make it work so why does it need to be talked about. Why don't we just talk about the stuff that needs to be sorted out now. The travel stuff and the bad communication stuff?

I'll talk about my waywardness in IC (which I've started) and make sure it never happens again and deal with my issues with my own Therapist.

If we've decided to move on with our marriage and look forward and not back and "DWELL" as my H puts it, what are the merits of talking about an A that is now over?????


Posts: 354 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What did the C say after your H's last response? To me, that is the perfect opening for her to dig in.

She didn't get a chance. His phone rang (yes he had his phone with him, on silent, but he was in the middle of an important deal . At that point it was end of the session an it came to a natural end.)


Posts: 354 | Registered: Mar 2013
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying, why is your husband's response rugsweeping necessarily? It seems that the common response sometimes becomes the mandatory one. I've seen members post here about different reactions and actually been argued with. "Wait for it. It will hit. You're just rugsweeping or accepting the blame". Seriously? You get fed a steaming bowl of shit and now get told how to eat said pile? Wow.

Not everyone reacts the same way. Hell, I married my ex after a ONS with a girl I later shared a lamb recipe with because I forgot it was she.

I'm sure he's less than engaged in MC because HE DOESN'T HAVE THE ISSUES. You do. He doesn't have a problem with the marriage. You do. He doesn't have the trauma of your choices. You do. I honestly think you have a problem with the fact he doesn't have a problem with those too. He doesn't have a problem with the way he is. You do. He doesn't have a problem with the way you are.

He may have found ways to exist without the marriage being his definition, sole focus, end all and be all. Focus doesn't always mean level of care or interest. Sometimes it just means obsession or waaayyyyy too much time on ones hands. Perhaps a hobby.

If you're unhappy with who he is and how he relates to you, make a decision and stop trying to "fix" him. He ain't broken. Some people don't work well together. Nothing wrong with either...just together they don't make beautiful music...or even fast food jingles.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
standinghere
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Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awkward and uncertain, but a good counselor will get you to talking about the issues of the marriage.

You cannot talk about the issues of the marriage without talking about the affair. It would be like writing a book about WWII and not talking about the atom bomb....which is what an affair is to a marriage.

My wife did not want to discuss the affair. She wanted to discuss the marriage, our relationship, our marital issues, how she felt, how I made her feel at times...which turned out to be frustrating and painful, everything BUT the affair.

But you have to talk about all the issues to learn, and you can't leave out the most destructive and painful issue and learn anything useful. If you do, you will not be getting at the root of the issues. You also have to deal with the truth, you can't just deal with things as you think they are or want them to be.

The counselor didn't let that happen in the end, it was the third visit, and KABOOM she brought it up and told her to tell me about the affair, to answer my questions. I asked, she talked. She lied, but told me a story that sounded like an affair could sound. It was HELL.

But, we kept going, talking, and working on issues in the marriage. In a few months time we learned things from each other and about each other and ourselves.

-My wife learned that she was feeling things around me that were not coming from me.
-She learned that her coping mechanisms she learned in childhood were destructive in a truly loving and constructive relationship.
-She learned that her closet drinking (which I didn't know about) meant that she was a true alcoholic just like her father.
-During this time she started learning that not every man out there was like her father.
-She learned that I didn't view her like her parents did.


She learned a lot about herself, her assumptions, and her misconceptions. She learned about how I viewed the marriage and her, and how that was demonstrated by my actions over time, and what those actions really meant. Then, finally, she started telling the truth about the affair, her drinking, her drug use, and our (her) friends, the real story.

This opened up another massive can of worms, another chapter of discussion, learning, and so on and so on and so on.

We went to MC for 3 years....I feel like I have a Masters Degree in counseling now.

Leave no stone unturned. The key to a happy marriage may be under one of them, and the biggest of them definitely needs to be rolled over.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 894 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
Mrs Panda
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Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H: She's referring to how I've never supported her and I assume she wants to dwell on things that happened in the past and how I could've been a better husband...

Within this thinly veiled accusation is your answer, I think . What I am hearing is that he either blames himself for your A or he thinks you want to continue to blame him. Maybe I am reading too much into it, or projecting, but it seems clear cut ...

You absolutely need to bring up the A at MC. How could MC be successful without that knowledge? You bring it up in a way that takes complete ownership. Has he ever heard that from you? It might mean a lot.

Even if he doesn't want to talk about it, it sounds like you do. So talk. Sometimes having a third nonjudgmental party can give some extra courage.


Me-41 FWW Him-44BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"The only thing permanent is change." Dr Charles Mayo,1930

Posts: 1947 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cannot talk about the issues of the marriage without talking about the affair

Hey, how about if you don't want to talk about either? What happens when one person thinks there's issues and one doesn't?

Maybe I'm feeling an affinity with her BS that's faulty. I can tell you this. Nothing is worse after enduring something horrific to be told how you must deal with it and criticized if you cope differently.

I know childhood sexual abuse survivors and rape survivors in counseling for years that get much out of it. I didn't. It was torture for me. I got the, "you must relive it and talk about it to get through it". Nope. Maybe that works for some people. Doesn't for all.

I don't think that was a "thinly veiled" accusation at all. I think it was just the facts. That's what happens when you push someone to counseling to discuss something they've all ready dealt with to make someone else feel better. That is why they're there, right? She doesn't feel he's been a good husband and wants to talk about the affair which is in his past.

Maybe, just maybe, things don't affect him as much as they may others. Being autonomous is a pretty cool thing. Also not the best candidate for a relationship with someone that needs more interaction and communication. Neither is wrong...unless they're needing to change dramatically to be together.

People aren't projects. Acceptance is as much a part of love as all other wonderful things.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

People aren't projects. Acceptance is as much a part of love as all other wonderful things.

I agree with this but when the basic core beliefs between a married couple are so incongruent it places too much pressure on a marriage and one or the other, or both, need to make changes if the marriage is to be sustainable.

Hence the need for MC and the need to find a mediator who can facilitate a discussion between a wife and husband. A discussion that perhaps one spouse is reluctant to have for fear of rejection or abandonment. Both people in a marriage have to be happy as if one has moved on but the other clearly hasn't, the environment remains stale and full of resentment.


Posts: 354 | Registered: Mar 2013
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Both people in a marriage have to be happy

They do? And who's responsibility is that, Trying? 

I agree in theory with your statement to a point other than the above quote. I don't think that relates to your situation though.

Is what you're saying that if he has moved on from an injury you inflicted he needs to go back and relive until you're satisfied with the results? 

Does he have fear of abandonment? If so he has an odd way of showing it. Not saying he doesn't but he seems pretty solid with things. 

We only have what's posted here to draw from and I do understand we all interpret from not only what we read but our own view and experiences. 

This is what you posted last month. 

 Why is it so hard during R to say "it may seem like I don't care about you being with another man but let me assure you I do, it's just that right now I can't allow myself to think or talk about it because.....". It's just opening lines of communication, letting the other person know where they stand

Along with this. 

 Here's my biggest problem and concern. When I look at FWW's and FWH's, they often post about the disgust and inner loathing they feel. They can't believe they did what they did. They want to move away from "that" person and can't recognise the person that had the affair. They talk about how they "cringe" when they think of the affair and ultimately wish it never happened.
I don't feel like that.

I often catch myself getting nostalgic about the A and I don't know why.

I believe this is why

 Somehow, by my xAP never contacting my BH always made me think maybe he did care after all. We never broke the pact. Then I realise I'm going into fantasy thinking again and I just change my trail of thoughts.

You've somehow attached meaning that I doubt exists and whether it does or not it's not a cry to connect with your spouse at all. It's a "proof of life" deal for you. How you register on his care-o-meter. His lack of outward pain and trauma display is painful for you. The really sad thing here to me, Trying, is it's not your love for your spouse at all I see. It's your almost pathological need to matter in ways you want to see. 

I believe, completely without real proof, he is an intelligent man and sees this as well. If so, I'm sure he's not a fan of what that may mean. He may very well be adjusting accordingly and giving you nothing of himself, not from pain and anger but simply you don't merit it in this current state. 

I also recognize that I may not be a good resource or at least an unbiased one anymore. I honestly find myself getting angry with you and that is neither helpful or fair.

There is much wisdom on this site. I'll just exit and repeat this. If you have detached, as you said you did when you chose to cheat, really look at what your goal is and how much your husband honestly factors in as an individual rather than a source. 

I wish you both healing and peace. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Trying33
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Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also recognize that I may not be a good resource or at least an unbiased one anymore. I honestly find myself getting angry with you and that is neither helpful or fair.

I often sense this contempt from you and IRL would cry and cower from a person like you as I feel intimidated by you. The way you speak and your intelligence makes my brain hurt but in a good way. I obviously push some of your buttons BUT at the same time a lot of what you say makes sense (once I've read it a few times and understood it). The challenging responses I receive from you, however scary, make me think and see things from a different perspective.

I do feel you have a limited tolerance and threshold for people that piss you off but that's ok and I respect your right to "exit". I think you're projecting a lot onto me and it would appear you've recognised that. That said, I will always appreciate your input even if I do get anxious every time I see your name in response to a post of mine.

Thanks for your wishes of healing and peace.


Posts: 354 | Registered: Mar 2013
solus sto
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Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying, I wonder if you've considered that it might be all right to deal with the A in MC without "all the sordid details." Some people really do not require all the details--they work through things constructively *without* dissecting every event and action in the affair-- and that isn't rug-sweeping. Individuals have different needs...and your husband's may simply differ from those of some other BSs.


BS-me, 52
WH(Mr. Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS17
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 7968 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying...my XH didn't require hearing every nitty-gritty detail about my A nor did he want to talk about it. He wanted to discuss a few very specific things and then he was done. This was both immediately after D-day and then 2 years later when we began R.

I was confused at first. I was thinking there must be something wrong with him or with our R. He certainly is very far from the "typical" BS that I read about here. I confess I still have moments of wishing he wanted to talk about it more but then I realize that that's more about me than it is about him---my need for control and wanting him to communicate the way I do, not the way he does.

We really are not very compatible with regards to communication. I have some days where I think compatibility in other areas makes up for it, and then days where it doesn't. *shrug*


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1919 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Topic Posts: 17

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