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User Topic: Madhatters Only Thread
JustAShadow
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Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FacePunched - you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and good boundaries in place for yourself.

I've always thought that the "don't compare" statement is just a shorthand way to say, 'own your own actions and don't use the comparison/blame-game as a defense mechanism for the purposes of shirking responsibility for your own actions.'

It appears as though you have taken ownership that something you did hurt your wife and have put a lot of effort into shoring up your boundary walls. So, if you are feeling bad that you are 'comparing'...IMO you aren't actually comparing (at least not in the same sense that I get when I hear or say 'don't compare') so free yourself of that burden (if you felt it was a burden of sorts).

I think you can leave the last sentence as just this:

But I'm struggling with everything after NC was broken and it went underground.

That's a wholly valid thing to be struggling with, in and of itself.

What effort has your W put in over the last year?


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
JustAShadow
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Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((silver))))

You mentioned writing fiction...I think that might be a healthy outlet for you - if you enjoy it. On the non-fiction side, are you a person who keeps a journal?

Maybe you want to start writing one thing a day that made you proud (of yourself) or happy (even if it was just a happy moment). It sounds like you and me are alike in that (I'm guessing) feeling anything positive about yourself is a struggle. It may be that you start out struggling to come up with one thing...but maybe in a week or month or two you'll find that you are finding more than one thing.

It could be something as simple (and seemingly inconsequential) as "I'm proud of myself for taking a shower today".

I don't mean to sound as if I know where you are "at" at the moment but I, personally, have had times where, if I had been trying to find something 'good' in a day, I may have only come up with that. It's just a way to remind yourself that the sun did come out, even if it was just for a moment.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you don't mind my asking…
Not at all. That's why I'm here.
Why in the past would you draw a boundary at discussing personal things, no PA, etc? What did you say to yourself to make it OK to flirt with other women?
There was a part of me that didn't see the harm in casual flirting...I had seen other guys do it who seemed happily married and (to my knowledge) had never cheated. My dad was always a very casual flirt, and (again, to my knowledge) had never cheated on my mom, was always effusive in praise of her, and never had a bad word to say about her. As far as discussing personal things? Part of it was modeling from my dad, I think, part of it was my experience seeing other people have problems in their relationships that way. Like I stated above, I knew lots of guys who casually flirted but didn't 'cheat'...but all the guys and girls I knew who ended up cheating were the ones who shared personal info with others of the opposite sex, and I never wanted to "be one of THOSE people." On some level I felt like one way (being flirtatious) was just something harmless that normal adults did, while the other way (sharing personal information) built a kind of intimacy that could be dangerous.
What were you getting from flirting?
I think that I was just looking for ego kibbles, mostly. I've always had chronic low self-esteem, and on the few occasions in earlier relationships where I did get flirted back with, it probably (temporarily) shored up my self-esteem. Also, when I was younger, I was always jealous of guys that were easygoing when it came to interactions with the opposite sex, and when I developed a little more into my skin later on, and got (some) confidence to flirt it was like proving something to myself in some fucked up way, like, "See? Those guys weren't better than you."
When you flirted, did you hide it from your wife at the time, or did you think it wasn't a big deal and then felt surprised when she found the messages and was hurt? Did you ever flirt in front of her?
So, this was an issue of contention: meaning, my wife categorized every interaction I had with the opposite sex as 'flirting'. So (and this is not an exaggeration) if we went to Target together, for example, and the clerk asked me how my day was going, and I answered and returned the question, my wife thought it was flirting. If I asked the Walgreens clerk what they thought about the weather, it was flirting. It would be conversations about normal, everyday stuff, just the sorts of things two humans talk about, and she thought it was flirting. We never really came to agreement on it, and I offered us to go to MC to resolve the issue, but she wan't interested. Now that being said, the FB stuff was for sure flirting. I don't think I was shocked that she was hurt, but I think I was surprised HOW hurt she was.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
silverhopes
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Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, this was an issue of contention: meaning, my wife categorized every interaction I had with the opposite sex as 'flirting'. So (and this is not an exaggeration) if we went to Target together, for example, and the clerk asked me how my day was going, and I answered and returned the question, my wife thought it was flirting. If I asked the Walgreens clerk what they thought about the weather, it was flirting. It would be conversations about normal, everyday stuff, just the sorts of things two humans talk about, and she thought it was flirting.

So this is interesting. Where did her reaction come from? Was it hypersensitivity on her part, based on experiences in past relationships? Or had she already seen you flirting and felt upset and became extra sensitive after? Or insecurities of her own? Something to explore.

Also, was the contention a two-parter? Part one is what constituted flirting to each of you was different, and part two is that you found flirting harmless and she didn't?

I had similar issues with my H early in our relationship. Once I detached from him, it was easier to see the areas where it wasn't flirting and I'd been overreacting, and the areas where I was accurate and it was. It wasn't a matter of being right or not, it was a matter of understanding where our boundaries and therefore comfort levels differed. It made understanding the reality of our situation different. In our case, I realized he did not wish to change, he simply wished to avoid consequences (now he's claiming to be different, but his actions are inconsistent). So if I stick with him, I'd better get used to his boundaries being in a different place than mine.

I meant to say, it is good to see you here questioning these things and exploring them. Welcome to the MH thread!


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
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Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You mentioned writing fiction...I think that might be a healthy outlet for you - if you enjoy it. On the non-fiction side, are you a person who keeps a journal?

Fiction is a good outlet. I feel tremendously guilty for writing it though… I feel I should be playing with my son instead. I pretty much raise him by myself, even when my husband is in the same room. I feel like a bad mother because we've been having some struggles recently, with potty training, weaning, and his tantrums/anxiety. No free time. I used to keep a journal, then it turned into a page here or there writing whatever the voices were bothering me about. I sort of kept one here for a while.

Maybe you want to start writing one thing a day that made you proud (of yourself) or happy (even if it was just a happy moment). It sounds like you and me are alike in that (I'm guessing) feeling anything positive about yourself is a struggle.

So true! It feels easier sometimes to think of the areas that need improvement. It feels dangerous, leaving myself open for attack, to let myself feel that everything is as it should be for even a minute. It's like - think everything's fine, then something will come along and make me sorry for relaxing.

How are you doing? How is your week going? Do you keep a journal? Is it helping you - did you move into the new place? Any remorse from your H?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
JustAShadow
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Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 17th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver - maybe when your little one takes a nap or after he goes to bed you can give yourself 20 - 30 minutes to write something. Consistency is good for all of us (not just the little ones!).

I don't journal - I have no doubt that it could be beneficial but I just have a real block with it. Instead, I use other people's words (and music) and doing yoga helps get me out of my head for a bit. I'm not super into it even though I like it (but there's another example of my commitment issues cropping up!) but when I do it - even if it's a 10 minute version from YouTube it somehow does help me center myself for a little while.

I'm slowly moving in - a carload every day. H talks a sweet game but has only talked about doing things that are easy/dreamy (we could travel to X or move to a nice new apt together). But, for some reason, I'm just kind of disassociated this week. I'm not sleeping well and not focusing at work but I'm also not tracking H and not really concerned about what he is doing at any given time. He's been working until very late this week (2nd job) so I'm just doing what I'm doing and letting sleeping dogs lie during the week. I may take him to the apt this weekend so that he can be reminded that *this* is really in place. There is nothing that he is doing that is showing actual remorse.

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 2:06 PM, January 17th (Friday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, January 18th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So this is interesting. Where did her reaction come from? Was it hypersensitivity on her part, based on experiences in past relationships? Or had she already seen you flirting and felt upset and became extra sensitive after? Or insecurities of her own? Something to explore. Also, was the contention a two-parter? Part one is what constituted flirting to each of you was different, and part two is that you found flirting harmless and she didn't?
So, the long answer is that my wife has a limitless need for appearance-based validation. Her ‘bucket’ is never full. She was always of the opinion that I didn’t compliment her enough, specifically on how beautiful she looked. It’s a half-truth, in my opinion. I complimented her a TON, but usually on things that were not related to her looks. I was more likely to compliment her on being a hard worker, or a good mother, or a good wife, or being super smart. That’s not to say that I NEVER complimented her on her looks, but there’s a wide gulf between how often that she says I did (or didn’t) do it, and how often I believe that I did. It’s interesting, because after reading 5LL one of the realizations I had was that we were both ‘speaking’ the language that we wanted to receive. My wife used to tell me I was handsome all the time. I always appreciated it, but it didn’t really “move the needle” as far as temporarily boosting my self-esteem. (Which is NOT her responsibility; I’m just relaying how different love languages affected us differently). I would’ve felt a lot more validated if she had told people how proud of me she was, or told me I was a good father and husband. I gave her my ‘language’: being proud and vocal about her accomplishments, and she gave me hers: compliments on physical appearance.

As far as why she was ‘hyper-sensitive’ pre-FaceBook flirting? I honestly think it was a little bit of projection…my wife has always had a tendency in her past relationships to do some things that are related to one-another: She had a tendency to develop romantic feelings for people that were close to her and were nice to her; i.e. friends. She’s a gorgeous woman, and many guys are not respectful of relationships if they think they have a shot with a pretty girl…so many times she had one plane on the tarmac before the other one had landed, to turn a phrase. She always had options, and she always left herself JUST available enough for her male friends to think they might have a chance. Talking it over with her, it seems like many of her relationships started as EAs with (supposedly) platonic male friends, and so for her she sees the progression as Friendship (and normal, surface level chatting)->blurring of the lines (letting boundaries and walls slip with more emotionally intimate talk)->full-blown EA->leaving her relationship for the next one. For her, that’s how it has ALWAYS progressed; ipso facto, that’s how it must always progress for everybody. To be fair, that IS how a great many affairs progress as evidenced by this site, so I can’t say she’s really wrong, just that it hasn’t been MY personal history. Also, I found out later that she was fishing for attention from one of her ex boyfriends even prior to my FB stuff, so I think like many waywards, there is a tendency to get all suspicious when your own shady activity is occurring.
She has a really hard time expressing emotions; like, impossible. It’s one of the main reasons our MC told us we had to wait until she did some serious IC to continue in MC…she was unable to put words to even the most basic feelings. I think that she’s one of those people that relies on other sources to feel her feelings for her….other people, TV shows, music. When someone likes her, she likes them.
Since I don’t want this post to be about my wife, and since her dealing with her issues is her own problem, let me speak on my own.
There is a very good chance that I have ADD. There’s a genetic component there, my son has it (diagnosed), and my grandfather, my father, and myself all exhibit the traits associated with it, both now and in childhood. Well, one of the effects of growing up with that is that you constantly are told (over and over), “You’re super smart, you just don’t apply yourself.” Or “You’re better than this grade, if you’d try harder.” You get told, ad nauseam, that you’d be the best.person.evah. if you could just get out of your own way, and you start to internalize a lot of self-hate, self-criticism, and low self-esteem. I know for me, I would mentally murder myself for failure. You know how some people blame others for their problems? I was the exact opposite. I almost NEVER blamed others. I blamed myself for every problem. Every shitty situation I was in was my fault because I didn’t work hard enough to NOT be in that situation in the first place. That coin has two sides, thought.

That trait has worked negatively against me in that I always want people to tell me how good of a job I’m doing, or how good of a person I am, or how nice I am. In that area, my bucket is never full. That trait has worked positively for me in my professional life, because people learn that you hold yourself accountable first and foremost. I’ve always had a good relationship with all of my superiors at work, because I’m always willing to step up and say, “You know what? My fault.” I mean, even when the shit with the FB flirting went down, I never once blame-shifted my wife. She gave me the opportunity to, she even asked me, “Is this my fault, is there something I could be doing better to make you happy?” and I told her flat-out, “No. This is on me, there is something wrong with me.” I think that’s where another of the core affair-related resentments resides, because on DDAY1, when I found out she was having an EA with my friend, she totally blame-shifted me, and due to my nature I totally bought into it. I believed her that I pushed her away, wasn’t affection enough, etc., because it fed into my internal narrative of “It’s ALWAYS your fault, FP”. So after DDAY1, I got all super-husband and tried to love her back into the marriage because she gave me the ol’ ILYBINILWY. I made concrete changes to how I interacted with women, I tried to be more attentive and helpful. I bought her gifts, and flowers. She told me herself that things were better….and then DDAY2 in January of 2013 blew everything out of the water, because it showed me that even if I HAD been doing all that stuff, it wouldn’t have probably mattered.

I had similar issues with my H early in our relationship. Once I detached from him, it was easier to see the areas where it wasn't flirting and I'd been overreacting, and the areas where I was accurate and it was. It wasn't a matter of being right or not, it was a matter of understanding where our boundaries and therefore comfort levels differed. It made understanding the reality of our situation different. In our case, I realized he did not wish to change, he simply wished to avoid consequences (now he's claiming to be different, but his actions are inconsistent). So if I stick with him, I'd better get used to his boundaries being in a different place than mine.
For myself, it came down to a situation of “Ok, would I rather be happy or right?” I have made a concerted effort to curtail my interactions with the women I know to a level that my wife is comfortable with.
I meant to say, it is good to see you here questioning these things and exploring them. Welcome to the MH thread!
Thanks for having me! It’s taken me a while of really wearing my BS hat and getting some of the angries out to get to a point where I feel comfortable being in this thread…before that I worked it out in IC, reading, pondering, etc.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
LosferWords
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Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, January 18th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It’s taken me a while of really wearing my BS hat and getting some of the angries out to get to a point where I feel comfortable being in this thread…before that I worked it out in IC, reading, pondering, etc.

I truly could have written this sentence word for word, FP. Good to have you here, man!


Posts: 6131 | Registered: Dec 2010
DixieD
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Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since FP brought it up.

JustAShadow:
I've always thought that the "don't compare" statement is just a shorthand way to say, 'own your own actions and don't use the comparison/blame-game as a defense mechanism for the purposes of shirking responsibility for your own actions.'

Thanks for throwing that out there. I think I've only posted in MadHatter once or twice because I do compare. And the mantra here is to not compare.

I still have a hard time using the word EA, by definition of it based on what is usually talked about on this site.....the need for constant contact, imagining a future with AP, seeing the AP as flawless or hiding/lying about the relationship to your spouse. None of that happened from my side. But there was something definitely not right, which included awful boundaries, and unhealthy interest and I didn't care about my husband's feelings, so in those ways it was an EA. I'd never heard of an EA prior to SI. I had a sense of my own line of right or wrong to not cross, but the line shouldn't have been as far in as it was.

To add to the comparison thing, my husband doesn't want call it an EA because HE also compares it to what he did. Plus, he didn't want to pile the label of WS on me because I was dealing with so much stuff already. Like FP said, I had to get some angries out before diving into anything else.

It's usually instinct for me to blame myself first. I knew that my actions were not based on anything my husband did or didn't do specifically. I didn't act the way I did because I felt neglected (although I did feel neglected), it's just the way I'd always acted. I've worked on things that lead to it all, off of SI. The flirty banter, the rescuer/KISA qualities, the mixing of love and pity. Giving a shit about my husband's feelings after he had an affair and lied to me about it took more time.

It also wasn't easy to SEE his hurt feelings (as WS say they needed to see their BS pain to absorb that) because at that time my husband was very bothered by this 'friendship' but yet he said nothing (other than some sarcastic comments, which had become his tone for just about everything, so I ignored it). That was part of the problem, I didn't know he was hurt by it because he didn't express his feelings. He rarely did. He felt what would be the point -- and honestly there wouldn't have been a point because I would have minimized and disrespected his feelings. I had a 'you can't tell me what to do sort of attitude'. I've now learned my husband was always the jealous type. In 20 years I didn't know that because not once did he express how he was feeling until after dday.

The things I got hung up on comparing were -- when I got smacked in the face with reality that this was questioned/headed somewhere I wasn't going to go, I instinctively said 'NO, that would be wrong. I'm married.' There were no thoughts of I deserve this or no one would know. I would know and that's all that mattered. And I couldn't lie about it. I immediately went to my husband and said 'AP said this -- can you believe that?' Whoa, what did I do? Dodged a bullet there.' Maybe subconsciously in some ways I was hoping for a reaction from my husband. A sign that he cared, but he didn't give it. But mostly I was an open book, I didn't hide things. I assumed (wrongly) that my husband was the same way. I didn't know he lived his life in secret and when he came to the same point (after me), he had no moral issue with having an affair and got off on the secrecy. That was the fun part. I'll never really understand that and I was very angry and resentful when I compared the two. I got to slope and went one way and he chose to go the other.

Not sure why I'm wrote all that (and sorry it's so long) other than I relate to what FacePunched said.

FP:
She has a really hard time expressing emotions; like, impossible. It’s one of the main reasons our MC told us we had to wait until she did some serious IC to continue in MC…she was unable to put words to even the most basic feelings.

I'm the same way. We attended Retrouvaille and you have to express feelings and I had a panic attack when I found that out because it was a completely foreign concept. Identifying feelings...it still makes me cringe a little. It takes practice.

you constantly are told (over and over), “You’re super smart, you just don’t apply yourself.” Or “You’re better than this grade, if you’d try harder.”

Yep, me too. I didn't link it to ADD, just my stubborn/obstinate FTW attitude. My husband and I had the same comments on our report cards -- that should have been a sign.

[This message edited by DixieD at 9:44 AM, January 24th (Friday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1737 | Registered: Sep 2011
Trying2Survive1
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Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think like many waywards, there is a tendency to get all suspicious when your own shady activity is occurring.

Right on the money here! Great post FP! TY!


***ooops, forgot quotes

[This message edited by Trying2Survive1 at 11:17 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


Madhatters, M 31 yrs
FWW/BS 57-BS/FWH 56
Separated 5 mos in 07.His DDay,11/07.False R since 07. My DDay,7/5/13."Once you are real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always.”
― Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit

Posts: 126 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think one of the reasons I do compare is that my wife and I both stopped at nearly the exact same spot on the slippery slope, and then we both made different decisions after that initial stop. I shut down my Facebook, and I never looked back, and I went NC with all 3 women I flirted with. I did some shitty wayward stuff, like getting mad when she brought it up out of nowhere, but I never said it was her fault, EVER. She, on the other hand, went NC for all of a month and a half before breaking NC to 'wish him a happy birthday', and then breaking it again a month and a half after that and re-establishing regular contact with OM, which led to the PA.

Oh, and she blamed me for the whole thing, initially.

So, I guess you cannot compare the pain, because that is relative to the person who's experiencing it....meaning, one person's 2 is another's 10, and so on. What I compare more often than not is the response to being caught and the aftermath. Speaking of comparing and not comparing, I have a post in General that I think many MH might be able to relate to.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=520345

[This message edited by FacePunched at 11:36 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something that came to my mind right now… Just need a place to talk about it.

I have been a madhatter twice over. This post is about the first time.

In my first situation, there was a coworker. He was single, I was single, and we began hooking up in a FWB kind of way. Except that he was very abusive. I was in over my head on some other issues, where I felt I earned abuse, and so stuck with it. In the beginning, he said that we were to tell each other if we'd found someone else. He began pursuing his friend's girlfriend, but I didn't find out about it for months. During a break I had a ONS. Because we got back into our arrangement later and I didn't tell him, I felt like this was the first time cheating, even though we technically were not together at this point (and, unbeknownst to me, he was actively pursuing the friend's girlfriend). After several more months together, and more abuse, and finding out that he was pursuing this other girl, even taking my car in order to drive her around and who knows what else, I made a second terrible decision. At 3:30AM one morning, he called me and threatened me into picking him up downtown. Once I was there, he said he wanted me out of my own car so he could drive the friend's girlfriend around and "talk" to her, while I stayed on the street downtown at 4AM and he returned "whenever". I tricked him into getting out of the car, drove away, and he called to say "so I guess this means we're over?" and hung up before I could respond. I had a ONS that night. For the longest time, I tried to tell myself I wasn't a cheater because of what he technically said. A couple of years ago I finally owned that in fact, I am a cheater, because I went against my morals and values and didn't tell him honestly what I was doing. If I didn't do anything wrong, then why is this intense guilt here, you know?

But the weird thing is this: I own that I'm a cheater. I am. But I feel as though I shouldn't have been hurt or upset that he was pursuing this other girl (except for the part about him pursuing another guy's girl, in other words, his OM status). I mean, I never got confirmation that they slept together (though there was a lot of evidence that they did something), and we weren't in a *real* relationship anyway, right? So how could I have felt at all betrayed by him, shouldn't I have been cheering him on that he got his game on?

And yet, I feel like the dirty slut-whore who cheated, since I actually had physical contact with the OMs, and since I didn't outright tell ex-FWB about the encounters (I told him about the first one much later, though I was not straightforward about it, and all he said was that I needed to use condoms). I feel like I was wayward but not betrayed. Like I should be hated. I should always be a lesser person for what I did. ETA: Like I have no right to expect fidelity from anyone, or am even deserving of a relationship, because I myself was not faithful.

I'm not sure what to do about that. Maybe that's the reality. And that's not even getting into the madhatter situation with my husband and all the complicated feelings around that. That's another post.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:27 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Trying2Survive1
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Member # 40022
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like I have no right to expect fidelity from anyone, or am even deserving of a relationship, because I myself was not faithful.

awwwww Silver, the past does not always predict the future. IMHO being faithful is a choice I can make for the future and I hope that my H will make the same choice. Through years of IC I have learned that my choice to be unfaithful was an unhealthy coping skill as result of many factors(FOO, Molestation, abandonment, etc.)

Yes, I WAS an unfaithful GF, then Wife before, but I CAN choose to move past that and strive toward the healthy, honest relationship that I feel I deserve.

[This message edited by Trying2Survive1 at 5:44 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


Madhatters, M 31 yrs
FWW/BS 57-BS/FWH 56
Separated 5 mos in 07.His DDay,11/07.False R since 07. My DDay,7/5/13."Once you are real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always.”
― Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit

Posts: 126 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
Hisbunnyonly
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Member # 38414
Default  Posted: 12:42 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Newest member of the "club" here......

I cheated almost 2 years ago. PA with a co worker of his. Dday was alittle over a year ago. I had a short period of time where I did not make changes needed but around a month after Dday I changed everything. Showing remorse and empathy. Went NC and stayed NC. I have been working hard at showing my I've and commitment and he has said he was trying to work on it too. We were finally in R.

He cheated. For almost the entire year I thought we were in R he was talking to girls on an app called KIK. He would download it when he was at work or I was at work and delete it before he came home or I got home. Naked pictures....sexting....and of course one of them he "has feelings for" I had a feeling last night and checked his phone. Spent over an hour going through and couldn't find anything. And then I went into the App Store, not sure what I was looking for and noticed KIK was the last thing he'd searched. So I downloaded it, and his password was MY name....and sure enough there were the convo's.....

I'm heart broken. He tried to argue with me that it wasn't an A and wasn't as bad as what I did to him. I told him an A is an A no matter what. I made him send NC messages to them (as they are all women from other states, 2 of which he doesn't even know their real names) and block them on the app. I now have the app downloaded on my phone and signed into his name so of he were to get back on there and message them o would get it as well.

I have cried, thrown up, screamed, been to that scarily cm point, and now am just hurt and confused. I love him. And I've been working so hard this past year. It's so hard for me to understand how he could be preaching about me earning his trust back from my A and at the same time having one of his own.


Posts: 75 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: TN
Trying2Survive1
♀ Member
Member # 40022
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry you are here Hisbunnyonly. I would be devastated as well.


Madhatters, M 31 yrs
FWW/BS 57-BS/FWH 56
Separated 5 mos in 07.His DDay,11/07.False R since 07. My DDay,7/5/13."Once you are real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always.”
― Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit

Posts: 126 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is my first post here, I know BW used to post in here, but she has stopped coming to Si, and it's taken me a while to get in touch with my MH status.

What brought it all up was I found a picture of BW and I during the time of her affair. At the time she asked me to grow a goatee and mustache, which I found out sometime in the last two years, was because her AP had one.

I knew the picture was somewhere, and it finally turned up. I remember the night very well. We were out to dinner with some people, I thought we were having a great time, but when I look at her eyes in the picture, I can only image what was going through her mind. We are S so I cannot ask her. I wanted to give her the pictures, so she could get rid of them. A way to hurt her a little, but then i thought, why...didn't i already hurt enough? why extend the pain. We are mostly NC, so all it will do in add drama to the S. So they sit here on my counter. I am not ready to throw them out, just letting them remind me of what was.

Anyway, it brings everything back up. I struggle, because as soon as I think about it, i think of everything I did to her, and compare the As, and think what she did was no where nearly as bad as what i did, so my guilt makes me feel like i dont deserver to be hurt.

Then i think, she cheated first, didnt tell me until i was busted in my first A, so for those two years or so she hid it and lied to me.

Then i wind up feeling like a chump. I was happy back then, unhealthy in my own ways, but I thought we were happy. then the guilt comes back in, lather, rinse, repeat.

I don't speak to anyone about it because while I have discussed my As with friends and family, i have never discussed hers. I guess I will bring it up in IC.

I dont really have a point i guess. Just thought sharing will ease the load a little bit, plus some of the 'free pass' threads in WW were bringing this up even more lately.

thanks for reading.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 722 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, February 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Hisbunny,

How are you doing today? Has your H given you transparency? What are your next steps? I'm so sorry. This must be a devastating time for you. Is he at all remorseful? Was this a dealbreaker for you? Are you feeling in limbo?

Hi badchoice,

It sounds like you're struggling with your feelings as a BS. You feel that you shouldn't feel hurt because when you compare the A's you feel yours is worse. But the lies hurt you too, didn't they? Do you journal? Sometimes it might help to work through your feelings. I think it's normal to feel mixed up inside. I don't think being a MH is an EITHER/OR, but rather AND/AND. Both things are true. Doesn't make it any easier, but it means one hat doesn't have to discount the other.

Thank you Trying2Survive1. I know that what you're saying is true. As people we all grow, we all make bad decisions, and we grow and change and try to do better. I just wonder sometimes if this unhealthiness will always be here in me, no matter how much I try to change it. Seems like it takes a lot of courage to accept a partner's imperfections as well as the rest of them. And being a cheater isn't minor. I consider it a lifelong goal to never cheat again nor help another person cheat. Never betray any more morals than I already have. Seems like a fair goal.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Figured id shake the tree, and see who falls out...

Posts: 107 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is anyone else here just existing ?
The plane of lethal flatness for sure...

Cant even get excited for kids.
They have asked...

Ona lighter note, i bought a volvo.
I roll...for u lovers of dead language.

It has a soul. Deus ex machina, baby...


Posts: 107 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, February 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, so, i will shake the tree a little harder...

Posts: 107 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
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