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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Lost in Washington...help
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never wanted to be here and I'm not happy I am but I have read this forum for months and feel it's time to post.

In 2007 we moved to a new city and my husband ex girlfriend/friend from High School lived in our town. I knew they talked once or twice a year. They dated for 2 months in High School they were more friends than anything else. She was married and has 2 kids. I didn't want to meet her but he tricked me into doing so. they started talking and I voiced my concerns over the next 2 yrs. I caught them talking at a time when he told me he couldn't get phone calls and they both promised to stop. That was the tip of the iceberg.
I have always had jealous feeling about this person and a gut feeling. I got forced in to going to family dinners at her house and I finally gave in and became her friend in 2009. It was this year that we started spending time just her and I. We developed a close friendship.
We moved in 2011 and I felt a relieve to have her away from my husband. I had caught them talking to each other behind my back they both promised they would stop. Why I didn't check the phone records I'm not sure. Must have been na´ve trust.
We moved back in Feb. 2013 and believe me I didn't want to. The whole hanging out all of us together again started all over. April 8th 2013 I walked around the corner and found him texting her...she was sitting on my sofa at the time. I waited till she left and then questioned him. He said they still talk and text a couple times a week. I did check this time and found they were talking about 800 minutes are more a month. I called him and asked him to give her up and go to MC with me. He said NO she is my friend and if I have to give her up I will resent you. by April 10th she said she was out and would no longer respond to either of us.
We started MC and he gave some song and dance about friendship and stuff. I didn't buy it and neither did the counselor. I just couldn't shake my gut telling me there was more. he finally gave me his phone codes and computer but he was still very hostile about it and he had changed out his micro SD card in his phone. I asked where the old one was...he finally left it out and I stayed awake and went downstairs and downloaded it.
The next morning I got on my laptop while my kids were eating breakfast and looked at the pictures....
what I found for DDay#2 I had video of her and him having sex and oral sex. I called him at work and he pretended not to know and finally said after I explained what I saw that he would be right home. He thought he had deleted it android phones store them even after deletion. He came home and confessed to everything. He says they "fell in love" in 2009 and he kissed her in Spring 2010 and then slept with her a handful of times from Fall of 2010 till we moved Fall of 2011. He traveled a lot during this time and wasn't home much. The video I saw was dated 10/31/2011. I asked when it ended...he said the sexting and video sex while traveling ending sometime in Spring 2012....he thinks. But the kicker is he is still "In love with her" He says she wanted to date this new guy once her divorce was finally and he convinced her that was a good choice and they were trying to be just friends....(my ass)

So here we are seeing a MC and trying to work this out. He still thinks he is in love with her but he swears he has had NC. She does not communicate with me I have tried. He told the MC that his love for her is dimming. we are 5.5 months in and he is still saying he loves her.

He is doing everything right...he is transparent, attentive, affectionate and remorseful. He seems to be trying very hard. He said they had never intended to hurt anyone and neither ever planned to leave their spouse. He swears he never planned to leave but if she made him so happy why didn't he. I realize it would be messy since she was part of our lives and our teenage kids would never forgive him but he if he was selfish enough to have an affair why not leave.

We have been married 18 yrs and together 22. I really love him and I take responsibility for putting my kids and job first but I quit my job and tried to be a better wife back in 2009 going forward. He was so into what he was doing he didn't notice. He takes responsibility for all the damage and destruction he has caused. We now are waiting for him to get over her and I think it is the most unfair thing of all. How can you love us both? Why didn't he just leave. We have a better marriage right now than we have had in years. I want it to go forward but how do you trust them again? How do you not trigger each other all the time?
I welcome all answers...I need help...is this man ever going to give her up. How long do I wait before I leave. I never left nor did he. He has stood right here and held me during my crying days and nights. I would say we are in reconciliation but how do we move forward with her in our marriage and in his heart and mind. why hasn't the Fog lifted? Can I fully heal if he doesn't give her up? I don't think I can.

Thanks for listening...it felt good even just writing this.

[This message edited by lostinwashington at 1:30 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it was kind of a long A since they have known each other so long, so it sounds like it could take a while for him to completely de-fog.

But, it does sound to me like he made a choice. He chose you - so I would focus on making your marriage, and yourself, the best possible. Work on you -- and do the hard work, and as he has further NC with her, it should get easier. I'd do what you need to do to verify that, though.

What a nightmare - I am sorry. My H had a 2+ month A with a mutual friend and it hurts like hell, so I partly understand what you are going through.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1936 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your response. The hardest part is knowing he loves someone else. It breaks my heart everyday

Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry you had to find us, lost.

Heartbreaking story. Double betrayals.

Many here have waited out their WS's feelings of "love" of their AP. Some have a successful reconciliation. Other BS's, I feel, are even more damaged by the time they have to wait for their WS's to stop "loving" their AP, and have a much harder time with reconciliation.

For me, I know I couldn't do what you and others have done. If my FWH felt he loved the AP, he would be gone. Not saying I would divorce, but he would be gone until he was in love with me, only me. I would feel like I was the back up plan, plan B, the door prize, the "winner" by default. I want my FWH to want me, only me, and be crazy in love with me. I am only saying these are my feelings, not that you should feel this way.

He told the MC that his love for her is dimming
This I don't get. You love or you don't love.

I would suggest if you want the fog to lift to give him a taste of what life would be without you. At the very least, look into doing the 180. You really aren't reconciled if he loves someone else, no matter how "nice" he is being and how much better your marriage is. (((lost)))


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9628 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
kiki1
♀ Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Lost)))

What a horrible story. My heart hurts for you.

Read here, post, watch.


Posts: 568 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
Butterfly24
♀ Member
Member # 39053
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your story breaks my heart and it isn't even happening to me.

I could not do what you are doing, the waiting would drive me insane. I would want him to love me or not, but not the both of us. If he didn't choose me, then I would choose for him.

That being said, I am not trying to be cruel, but I do not believe you can love two people that way. You either love your spouse or you love the ow, but not both. So perhaps it is just in his head. The fog, a very sad cloudy judgement.


Posts: 64 | Registered: Apr 2013
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, I know I couldn't do what you and others have done. If my FWH felt he loved the AP, he would be gone. Not saying I would divorce, but he would be gone until he was in love with me, only me. I would feel like I was the back up plan, plan B, the door prize, the "winner" by default. I want my FWH to want me, only me, and be crazy in love with me. I am only saying these are my feelings, not that you should feel this way.

This is how I feel .... I keep hoping the nightmare will end and I can try to move on and be with the man I love but I'm not sure I can. He says he is thinking about her less and have less feeling about her....WTH


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
lostinwashington
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Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could not do what you are doing, the waiting would drive me insane. I would want him to love me or not, but not the both of us. If he didn't choose me, then I would choose for him.

That being said, I am not trying to be cruel, but I do not believe you can love two people that way. You either love your spouse or you love the ow, but not both. So perhaps it is just in his head. The fog, a very sad cloudy judgement.

I agree with all of this


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He can not, by definition, be remorseful if he is still "in love" with the OW. They just don't go together.

If after nearly 6 months he still has these feelings I think it means a) they are in some kind of contact or b) he is not "mentally" no contact with her. He is holding onto "positive" memories of the affair. Remorse occurs when he sees that affair in its true form; ugly, grotesque, damaging and horrifying.

Keep reading, posting, learning. But most of all, don't accept this "in love" crap from him. It will eat you alive later down the road.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6421 | Registered: Jan 2011
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Rebreather and everyone else. I feel so lost and confused. I agree with everyone...maybe I need sometime away

Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
bionicgal
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Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we have to be careful what we say to other people here. I don't think Lost should think that her situation is any more dire than anyone else's. I also think many of us draw invisible lines in the sand and say, "Oh, I could tolerate this but never that!" without knowing what it is really like. I imagine most of us had the line in the sand at adultery before we heard our partners had affairs, and yet here we are.

I personally believe many waywards downplay any feelings of "love" they may have had. My WH did feel, at the time of his short A, like he loved his AP. It took time for him to see that feeling for what it actually was. (i.e. basically an emotional and chemical 'high', fueled by secrecy and shame.)

Did it hurt like the dickens to hear that is what he thought then? Yes. I honestly don't know how I tolerated it. But, I think it is more helpful to look at it as infatuation -- untested, immature, romaticized love. Can that happen if you are already married? Of course it can -- and many, many waywards right here on these very boards experienced it and can prove it. I would wager than most waywards thought they loved their APs, if they are honest. Look, people here have had their WS fall in love with prostitutes and other sex workers, so the feeling of being in love doesn't matter a whole lot IMHO.

My H also read a lot -- and I highly recommend that the WH in this case starts educating himself by reading things like "Not Just Friends," if he hasn't. When he starts to see how un-unique he and his AP are, how utterly typical and predictable his "special love" was, then he will begin to see with less clouded glasses.

Now, at 3 months out, my H is pretty disgusted with himself for calling something that was so selfish, ugly, and destructive "love." But, it really was what he thought with his twisted logic at the time. And he would say that the feelings were "diminishing," so they don't go away all at once. Five months is not that much time.

Have faith, and read!!

[This message edited by bionicgal at 4:12 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1936 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I don't feel you need time away.

This is what my MC did. What your MC is doing. Had us working on the marriage. But, FWH should have been working on himself. MC and you are coddling your WH. He isn't being forced to look at himself and the consequences. He gets to have a new and improved you and marriage. Oh, gee, and he got to have a girlfriend, too. He isn't doing any work on himself. Why did he do what he did? How will he ensure that will not happen again?

I feel you need to do the 180 at minimum or have your WH move out.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9628 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
lostworld
♀ Member
Member # 19197
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was in a very similar boat to yours. During the year-plus false R, my H would admit that he thought he loved the MOW; once I discovered he was still in the A while telling me about these feelings (feelings he only spoke about under long questioning sessions initiated by me), I realized that meant he thought he really loved her throughout the entire A. That felt like a fatal wound. Looking back, I think the only thing that kept me in the game was recognizing somewhere deep inside of me, often not even a place of consciousness, I knew enough about her to know that my H would never really love that type of woman. I held onto the hope that once he truly ended the A and recommitted to our M, he would see the MOW as she truly is. I had quite a lengthy period where I also had to remember to see her as her true self because she does have some redeeming characteristics, however, despite these positive traits, she also has many opposing traits; and those negative traits are more fundamental and intrinsic to her than any of the positives.

By keeping the MOW in perspective, and hence keeping my own value/worth in perspective (an epic battle), I found strength. However, this was not nearly enough to pull me through. I made it very clear to my H that his feelings about the MOW were his to work through with our MC/IC. It went without saying that I couldn't witness any grieving for her or the A, or I would likely lose my appetite for R. The only thing I wanted to know in this regard was that he was continually making progress and that he was completely committed to me and full R. Perhaps most importantly, My H had to do his part; he had to be willing to look microscopically into the himself and all aspects of the A. He had to be willing to let it go. Surprisingly, in the time that has passed we have discussed it often, and he says it was remarkably easy to "get over her" once he really made the committed decision to do so. He tells me it was really that simple: he had to commit to ending it forever and committing completely to our M. Once his head was in the right place, his heart very soon followed.

I would say that once my H really went NC and ended the A, it took a few months for him to fully define his emotions for the MOW...and they were not love. It took another year for me to rest more comfortably with it. Now at over 4 years since the last time she forced contact (showed up in a parking lot at one of our son's functions), I am very convinced he never loved her, but more importantly to me, he is convinced of it. He is honestly horrified by his thoughts and actions during the A. He is thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed by the juvenile interpretations he made of the A and the MOW. It was a long haul, but we are at a very good place today.

Final thought after re-reading your post: IMHO, it can take a bit of time for the "fog" to lift, but no, you can't heal if he doesn't completely give her up; he has to be willing to do so, and that means understanding that NC is mental as well as physical. Doesn't sound like he's done enough self-discovery yet to have that happen.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
Married 30 yrs. w/ 2 grown kids
Dday 1: Very early 2007
Dday 2: Mid 2008 (same MOW, 14 month false R)
R'd
The affair was the aberration, not the marriage or the man.

Posts: 814 | Registered: Apr 2008
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we have to be careful what we say to other people here.
Do you think we aren't? Look, this is a site where people ASK for advice. We give it. Doesn't mean they have to take it. They can take what applies and leave the rest.

I say what I feel and what works and doesn't work for me. I can be pretty damn sure, bionicgirl, when I tell you if my FWH professed love for another woman, he would be out on his ass. And, btw, they are almost 6 months out from d-day, so theres that.

I don't feel anyone has said that lost's situation is any more dire than anyone else's. We have all been in similar situations at one point or another, otherwise we wouldn't belong to this wonderful club. But, she isn't in reconciliation and there is much wrong with her situation as it stands now.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9628 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked him to be honest and he says he can't lie and say he has no feelings for a person he has known since 16. I do believe he loves her as a person and friend...I don't believe they were ever in love. I have read Not Just Friends and I gave it to him but he hasn't read it yet. I have told him that everything he says is what I hear most WS say. He won't say what he felt for her was not love he will say what he did was disgusting and unhealthy. I think he is having trouble separating the love of a friend he is known for 28 yrs and someone he was in love with. I think that in itself is the issue. I have not asked him to leave because we have both felt that was counter productive. I just find that this...not the affair is what I'm hung up on.

I want this to work and when I look in my heart I know it can. It just hurts so much.


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
confused615
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Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think there are very,very few FWS's here on SI who would say they loved their AP.

Most of our waywards are remorseful. They know their affair was wrong,their responsibility,and most of them,if not all of them,would say what they felt was NOT love...at least..that is MY opinion,having been a member of SI for the last few years.

Your WH does not love the OW. He never had to deal with real life issues with her..no money problems,parents,in-laws,kid problems,etc. It was all fantasy.

A remorseful WS does not fall out of love with their AP...because they recognize what they felt for the AP was not love.

A WS..who hasn't found remorse..or is still foggy..now THEY may think it was love. And,OP,it sounds like your WH is covered in fog...meaning his head is still up his ass.

What is he doing to show you he wants to R?

Is he transparent? Does he answer all of your questions without blame and anger? Do you have full access to all of his accounts and his phone?

Did he write a NC email to OW..and you signed it?

Has he gone to IC?
Did he get tested for STD's? Did you?

Other than MC and saying he's "sorry," what is he doing?


Until he gets his head out of his ass,IC would be better than MC. MC with a foggy,"in lurrrrve" WS is detrimental to the BS.

ETA: Ask him how he would feel about someone who came into your home and started beating you and your kids with a ball bat. Would he love them? That is what she has done..she walked into your life..pretended to be your friend..and the entire time she was waging war on your family. This person is not his friend. And he isn't hers.

[This message edited by confused615 at 4:28 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7380 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostworld Thank you so much. I'm gonna ask him to tell me what he has to gain by holding on to her. What he may lose is me. I don't wanna push his hand but I won't last much longer.

I spent 4 years comparing myself to this woman thru my kids eyes and my husbands...my self esteem is gone. I have been trying to build myself up but it is so hard. she is the polar opposite of me. She only showed him the good parts.

I want to talk to her and I know many on here disagree with that but I think she needs to tell me she's sorry.


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

confused615: he is transparent, he is aware of the damage and destruction he has done and he has been nothing but kind... not defensive or angry since the first few days. I sometimes wonder is maybe there is NO Fog maybe he really did love her and he's only here because she cut him off. Sad but true I feel like the left prize

[This message edited by lostinwashington at 4:30 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm gonna ask him to tell me what he has to gain by holding on to her. What he may lose is me.
That is good, lost.
I don't wanna push his hand but I won't last much longer.
I have seen it said many times here at SI. Sometimes to save a marriage you have to be willing to lose the marriage. See, this is the dynamic that is all wrong in this, lost. He should be bending over backwards to prove himself to you. Not you worried about pushing his hand.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9628 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
lostinwashington
♀ New Member
Member # 40775
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He should be bending over backwards to prove himself to you. Not you worried about pushing his hand.

This is my thinking.... I have been reading the 180 and I tried yesterday to follow it but today is a different day and I've had a bad day. The dreams and PTS that come from seeing Video of the event leave me very upset and angry some days when I wake. MC says I have to resolve my issues for the dreams to stop. I do a great job of putting it out of my head during waking hours. In the sex one she is saying I love you to him and it plays over and over in my head. (bad head)


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: lostinwashington
Topic Posts: 21
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