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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
SuperDuperWonderboy
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Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No disagreement here.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1263 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey - want you guys to know that I don't post in here often but do stop by now and then. I think I smell the testosterone and get drawn in.

Anyway, I wanted to take a second to reply to Sal's recent postings and maybe offer some perspective - and to anyone else that wants it.

A huge revelation came to me a while ago - after Dday I kept asking why my wife acted the way she did. She looked at me and said, very candidly, "You know, for 3 years I texted this guy 30, 40, 50 times a day. He was part of my life. As much as you're going to say that you don't give a shit (because you hate him) my life, in part, revolved around him. It took me a while to fill in that lost time with time that involved YOU."

Back then I didn't like that explanation. Like many of you my thought was, "Fuck you.... and him." But as I got further along into reconciliation I finally had to realize that there IS truth to that.

If you spend every morning from 6:30-7:00 am reading the paper and having coffee.... what do you do when the coffee runs out and the paper doesn't get delivered? It takes a bit to readjust your life and fill the time in with different, more productive habits.

Sal, it appears from the little bit I've read, that your wife has a ton of issues. But it also sounds like you had a great September.

You may need to come to terms with the fact that your wife is, indeed, working on her issues but is still working on them. THAT is what is important. THAT is where your focus should be. The day she stops working on them or decides that it's no longer imperative to face her demons - well, that's when the rug gets pulled out.

But you know what? I can feel that you love her through your posts. Don't lose someone you love because her "issues" aren't being addressed on a sufficient timeline. If you have recommitted to each other - then BE THERE for each other. Don't half ass it. Marriage is hard work and it takes a tone of sacrifice. For as long as she's willing to dig, don't bail. You'll be miserable that you did.

I apologize if I'm reading it wrong. I don't even play a psychiatrist on tv so I don't want to overstep my bounds.

But I see so many people give up what is, truly, the love of their lives because one person does something incredibly shitty. I know - my wife was as bad as it gets. But she is working hard... and that's what's important.

Be well, brother.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 125 | Registered: Jan 2013
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LICrazy

Great post, I wish I'd written it. There's some very hard-won wisdom here. I know, because I came to much the same place, and just about tore my heart out AND fried my brains doing it.

Even during the A, when my WW was doing some really fucking seriously hurtful shit, and deep in the dark fog, I still loved her. Later I saw that she had no idea how much damage she was doing to me, and was so horrified by even a glimpse of it that she shut down hard.

She wasn't all that emotionally available in the first place, but she still found room for sadness over the loss of her AP. That took me way past hurt and deep into anger at first, but then my love for her took over and I found a way to let her have her pain without it killing me. I even felt a tiny bit sorry for her when I wasn't wallowing in my self pity.

Somehow, we got through it.

Over 30 years later, we're still together, and even now she occasionally turns another page in that old book and discovers how much of my pain is written that she never saw before. In some ways, she's more remorseful now than she ever was. It is a wonderful and terrible thing to behold.

Love your tagline.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Life, at the risk of getting too sappy and dropping the level of testosterone in here, I have to say that I was touched and humbled by your post. Touched for obvious reasons, humbled because I'm reminded that I have a tendency to obsess on my particular situation as if though my pain was unique on a site with 40,000 members who've either inflicted or received the same kind of pain. Some fit both categories. I can almost see other Menz rolling their eyes after one of my gripe sessions and thinking "there he goes again."

But you know what? I can feel that you love her through your posts. Don't lose someone you love because her "issues" aren't being addressed on a sufficient timeline. If you have recommitted to each other - then BE THERE for each other. Don't half ass it. Marriage is hard work and it takes a tone of sacrifice. For as long as she's willing to dig, don't bail. You'll be miserable that you did.

I apologize if I'm reading it wrong. I don't even play a psychiatrist on tv so I don't want to overstep my bounds.

You read it perfectly, and your words really hit home. Thanks brother.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really nice post, LifeisCrazy. Very well said.


"The hero of my tale, whom I love with all the power of my soul, whom I have tried to portray in all his beauty, who has been, is, and will be beautiful, is Truth." - Leo Tolstoy

Posts: 4462 | Registered: Dec 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal - I agree with the others, that your wife needs to hear these sentiments as well. As hard as it will be to share them, and as hard as it will be for her to hear them. If and when is totally up to you, of course...

You shouldn't have to carry the load of that pain alone.

Hope you are doing better this evening.

Take care


"The hero of my tale, whom I love with all the power of my soul, whom I have tried to portray in all his beauty, who has been, is, and will be beautiful, is Truth." - Leo Tolstoy

Posts: 4462 | Registered: Dec 2010
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A huge revelation came to me a while ago - after Dday I kept asking why my wife acted the way she did. She looked at me and said, very candidly, "You know, for 3 years I texted this guy 30, 40, 50 times a day. He was part of my life. As much as you're going to say that you don't give a shit (because you hate him) my life, in part, revolved around him. It took me a while to fill in that lost time with time that involved YOU."

It's funny because I am sitting here and looking at this, and my wife glanced over and said "You have that look on your face like you used to get when I said something really stupid."

My wife obviously said and did a lot of stupid shit for awhile. I think your first reaction - Fuck You - was appropriate. While it takes awhile you readjust your life, I absolutely agree; and I know it may take some time to 'detox' from the A; I don't think a WW has any right to *that* comment.

The OM were parts of our WW lives, yes. Shitty parts. Vile parts. Dishonorable, base, worthless parts. That wasn't time lost IMO, it was time wasted.

If she had said "It took me awhile to pull my head out of my ass" then I'd high five, but that right there, what she said, sounded like she was just swapping you in for the OM. If she needed to send someone 50 texts a day then she had a lot of spare time when she quit sending them to the OM. If she was using you to fill some Need Hole that suddenly became a vacuum now that OM was gone... that her life has to revolve around someone else... I think your Fuck You statement should just EOL that whole thing.

Not trying to be an asshole. That comes unintentionally, sorry. We all go through this differently, and like they say, take what you need. Glad things are working for you, too.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7077 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My 2c on some pretty deep stuff here on page 39:

Beware the difference between love and fear of loss/change. I would agree, if there is still truly love, then LIC's words are truly and wisely spoken. If there isn't love but only fear of loss or anxiety over change manifesting as love, then a grain of salt must accompany those words of wisdom.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTS

So true, and only you and no one else can know or say when you are done or not. R is one fucking hard road, not for sissies. D isn't exactly a cakewalk. A's suck.

But I see so many people give up what is, truly, the love of their lives because one person does something incredibly shitty. I know - my wife was as bad as it gets.

Mine. Fucking. Too. Both.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with SG. Fuck you and OM is still the best and final reply. Next time do some candy crush instead to fill up the time.

[This message edited by nuance at 11:23 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1155 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to make myself clear. In no way do I condone a WW continuing to wallow in the misery of the affair. To me, that is a giant fuck you.

In fact, I reread my past 5-6 osts on this board and am realizing that I'm becoming much more hardline as it pertains to people managing themselves immediately after Dday. Too many people (me included) are so paralyzed with fear that we don't realize that the ball is really in our court.

My perspective, now almost two years out, is to come down hard and swift - demanding contrition and immediate NC or to show them the door.

My point to Sal (maybe poorly illustrated by my example of my wife's text messaging) is simply to show that after the affair is over (and my wife's ended completely and resolutely) the WS needs to fill in the time that was originally spent managing the affair.

Even if it's complete and total recommitment to the marriage there will be times of awkwardness - in Sal's case, maybe a fall back into a prior behavior pattern (not cheating but maybe episodes of low self-esteem, etc.). While these behavior patterns MUST be addressed and worked on by the WS it's not realistic to think that, say, 30 years of low self esteem are going to go away in 6 months.

As a result, my comments were simply for him to think about whether or not he really wants to end the marriage because of his wife's deficiencies (not the affair but the things that led to the affair that still, on occasion, rear their ugly head). There may well be a time where he feels "enough is enough." But I get a sense from him that he is still deeply in love with his wife and that she is trying - maybe not as much as she could sometimes - but trying. And that DOES count.

Let's face it. We're all fucked in a lifetime of having to deal with our wives' infidelity. But I'm glad that I stuck it out and dealt with the shit following my wife's affair.

It would really suck for me to be divorced - knowing that my wife and I still love each other this much.

Enjoy your day, gentleman. Heading out to enjoy my brand new Jeep.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 125 | Registered: Jan 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"You know, for 3 years I texted this guy 30, 40, 50 times a day. He was part of my life.

Uh huh. Respectfully - if my wife told me that, I'd tell her to make the OM not only part of her life, but all of it. I've got no sympathy at all for her filling her holes by getting her holes filled by other men. Instead of texting, skyping, calling, cock gobbling, or whatever modus operandus they conducted their affair there was a healthier alternative.
If you spend every morning from 6:30-7:00 am reading the paper and having coffee.... what do you do when the coffee runs out and the paper doesn't get delivered? It takes a bit to readjust your life and fill the time in with different, more productive habits.

I can answer that with a variety of other hypotheticals, but that isn't really necessary. I will not excuse her A because she couldn't find something healthier to occupy her free time. That's just me. Of course, I'm only about two years out. I might feel differently four years from now. And while my narrative parallels everyone's here and I'm not unique, my wife had healthy options. We are (and were) financially sound, she wanted for nothing, I paid for her college degree she never had to use, the country club, cars, clothes, free time so she could volunteer. Life. Was. Good. Trust me. To take my desire for her and my family to have a life free of care and worry and abuse it by offering herself for free on the internet while I worked to provide, to use my trust against me, when we had clearly discussed the repercussions and my past history of how infidelity had impacted my life isn't something I'm willing to do penance for.

LIC - I'm really glad you've found a way to look at it that works for you. I'm just not there yet. We are on close to the same timeline, but every road is different. That's what great about this site, there are a lot paths that lead to the same destination. I just haven't found mine yet. I might be lost for now, but I haven't given up finding my direction. I am getting better about enjoying the journey and not caring where the damn road takes me though.

ETA - cross posted with you LIC. Don't be afraid to get that Jeep muddy .

[This message edited by Tred at 8:30 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3278 | Registered: Dec 2011
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Angry day for me, I would post something about being forgiving, but I am not there today.

Times like this it bring me back to what has this cost her ? Really her life is the same as it ever was. She got to test the waters while retaining the option of coming back to the M. She got to fix her issues and be happy/healthy all the while leaning on me for support despite treating me like garbage. Look up in the dictionary under chump and you will see my picture.

You know I want to be the one that retains the safety of the M while trying to figure out if there is something better out there. If I am caught then I can just say sorry a bunch of times, give up my privacy, but eventually by being consistent, honest and faithful I get back where I am today. No permanent damage. No lasting consequences for being a complete and total moron.

At least I would know if my M is what I want or not want. That way if I don't find what I am looking for, I can obsequious my way back to knowing it is the best thing for me and while it may difficult for a time, it eventually gets better than ever.

If the end result is the only measure of success why wouldn't this be the logical path ?

Sorry gents. Angry today. I had to let some of it out. Bad discussion last night with my W. She "forgets," why I can be so insecure sometimes. Selfishness apparently has not gone away entirely.

She mentioned that "most wives," wouldn't do x,y and z. Well "most wives," don't cheat on their husbands and get their life back either.

Angry to the point I am still seeing red.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2455 | Registered: May 2010
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"You know, for 3 years I texted this guy 30, 40, 50 times a day. He was part of my life. As much as you're going to say that you don't give a shit (because you hate him) my life, in part, revolved around him. It took me a while to fill in that lost time with time that involved YOU."

Disclaimer: I respect everyone's opinions but I still have a some anger and this would have sent me through the fucking roof. I am over 2 years out as well but I am getting D from a STBXWW that had a 3 yr LTA with a coworker. The D is the right thing for me but I just wanted to give my perspective on that. No disrespect meant to lifeis crazy or anyone else just my perspective.

I put that quoted statement squarely in the hella unremorseful WS category. This isn't lost time to fill, it was stolen time I and my children will never get back. OM was a part of her life because she chose to fuck over her family and husband. She made a choice to do it and now to come back and say her life revolved around him and now she has to figure out how to be a part of the family and a wife again. She had no problem figuring out how to make time with OM for years but now she has to "figure out" how to fill lost time. Spending time is the easy part. WTF did she think i was doing for the last 3 years while she was out fucking her coworker and lying to my face on a daily basis. That conversation if it happened in my house back then would have jumped straight to GTFO. Not much would have sent me there but that would have. I stayed in the shitstorm far to long before ending it but my WW never said shit like that to me. If she had I would be free right now instead of waiting 8.5 more months for the mandatory waiting period to be over.

But I see so many people give up what is, truly, the love of their lives because one person does something incredibly shitty.
But if this person is the love of our lives isn't it supposed to be reciprocal or does the WS get to have more than one love of their life. Sometimes love ain't enough and it's better to let go. If love was enough they wouldn't be fucking other dudes. Love wasn't enough in my case.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:25 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1559 | Registered: May 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There may well be a time where he feels "enough is enough." But I get a sense from him that he is still deeply in love with his wife and that she is trying - maybe not as much as she could sometimes - but trying. And that DOES count.

Exactly. I too winced a little at the text comment, but the above is what I took out of LIC's post. And that part is on the money - I am deeply in love with the crazy bitch. And she is trying. She's just not very good at it sometimes. Sometimes I need a reminder that a person doesn't go from seriously messed up to healthy in 8 months.

The biggest message I took from LIC is "don't do anything rash", and that was a wise and timely post on his part b/c I'd convinced myself this weekend that I was going to draft and file a divorce petition first thing Monday morning. Don't think I would have, but the support was nice just the same.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And she is trying. She's just not very good at it sometimes. Sometimes I need a reminder that a person doesn't go from seriously messed up to healthy in 8 months.
Sal, the bolded part is the important part. That's the difference between remorseful and unremorseful at least in my case. Whether it's ultimately a dealbreaker is up to you but your WW is trying and attempting to do the work. In my case, I didn't get that. I got some false starts but ultimately it was easier for her to continue running and just add a failed M to all the bad shit in her life that she sweeps under the rug. If I had filed on Dday versus 2 years later the outcome would have been exactly the same for me but I wouldn't know that if I hadn't gone through the 2 years and walked my own path. Each of us has to walk our own path so you keep doing you man, I wish you and your W the best.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1559 | Registered: May 2011
BAMAC
♂ Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes I need a reminder that a person doesn't go from seriously messed up to healthy in 8 months.

I needed this reminder today. Thank you.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
BH (Me) 30. WW 30.
Filed.

Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"don't do anything rash"

Always good advice. My only sentiment now is I'm past the rash stage. I promised I wouldn't make any decisions for the first year. That time frame expired 11 months ago. At this point any decisions (even if it looks rash) would be based on the sum total of what has happened, both her affair and behavior since. At this junction I feel I would be justified if I decided to leave this M - I have given it my best and the reward for that was continual lies to the point where I feel I'll never know the truth. I'm sure if there are details remaining that she doesn't think I'll find out about she plans on taking them to her grave. That being said, she is still the woman that I committed to and fell in love with a long time ago. I just hate qualifying everything good in my life now with "despite her affair". That's why I'm in therapy . Not sure why she isn't though...


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3278 | Registered: Dec 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And she is trying. She's just not very good at it sometimes. Sometimes I need a reminder that a person doesn't go from seriously messed up to healthy in 8 months.

or 36 months,

In FWW's case she is working on her issues, and making progress, but it was a very deep hole to start with, so even a lot of work leaves her pretty deep down in a hole. While she is healthier, I do not belive she is happier because she has cast aside her old and unhealthy coping mechanisms, but struggled to replace them.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3961 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just hate qualifying everything good in my life now with "despite her affair". That's why I'm in therapy . Not sure why she isn't though...
Tred, that is why I did leave. I was in therapy and once I worked though all the emotional damage I was dealing with and started to heal the clock was ticking. At some point they have to pick up the oar and start paddling with you. I detached and was sitting back saying, "so this is it huh, this is what my M is at the moment and WW has no desire to even try to resolve her shit". I filed after that. At some point I felt like I was waiting for her to actually catch up to me but she never even started so in my case I had no choice but to file or at some point I would be sitting there looking at another dday.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1559 | Registered: May 2011
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