I would agree also that I have kind of left my M without leaving it physically (see my comment in BM - Part 13 about WINO - Wife in Name Only). My WW and I are friends with benefits. I don't love her.... but maybe I don't need to.
I think that is all just fine. I stopped loving my W after dday. In my book, love is earn (outside of my kids) not given just for the F of it. That said, it all can change. I love my W now because she has changed again. She is building back up those love credits and I am feeling pretty good about it. It can change back for you too....IMP just make sure it earned...
7yrsflushed - Everyone is broken in one way or another. No one's perfect. The question is, will that significant other recognize her condition and do the work necessary to heal in that area of brokenness?
I spent the first year trying to "hold my position" to speak in military terms. When you find out, you circle the wagons and prepare for battle. There is this sudden urge to protect everything at all cost.
At the 1 year mark after everything settled down I started asking myself, "what was I trying so hard to protect"? It's not like I had a dream marriage. It looked like that from the outside and still does actually. I wasn't really that happy.
It was in that moment I think I truly became "free". I realized that if it fails my life will still be great. If this doesn't work it's not the end of the world.
It's those things I still struggle with. I think at the drop of a hat I could still walk. My wife ensured that the warm fuzzy feelings I had were stomped out.
I hate to say this too but my wife is smoking hot and I find her so physically attractive it's not funny. So... when I feel like walking I take a look at her and can't seem to do so.
I am weak I tell ya.
Much has changed, except me-gotta admit I need to tell her I've noticed her changing.
Funny my W made coffee for me for a year or so after d-day. Trust me that is an effort for her...she is not a morning person. I make it now because I am a morning person...but she is up with me every morning for 10 to 15 minute prior to me leaving for work at 6:15.
Remember..you don't have to shit. But if you want to and you are starting to believe its really there, it's a nice narrative to the be the one who can see the world broadly, forgive and love again. It doesn't make the betrayal go away but its a real good story.
But if you want to and you are starting to believe its really there, it's a nice narrative to the be the one who can see the world broadly, forgive and love again. It doesn't make the betrayal go away but its a real good story.
^^^ ^^^ Word. Golden. Word
The story I have paints me as a strong person who overcame obstacles, showed generosity to one who did not earn it and lived to tell the tale. My W story is that she made some very bad choices, but was lucky enough to be shown mercy and grace.
I am the hero and she is/was lucky. Who would you rather be ?
I am the hero and she is/was lucky. Who would you rather be ?
Yep. It's not like it happens all at once either, but it's a choice after watching my W change.
It's easy to bang on people who have screwed up. But throughout my life, the people I respect the most are the ones who get back up. I am one of those people. My W is starting to prove to me that she is too.
I don't believe that crap about better than ever after the A. I would rather go undefeated than to lose one year and battle back to win it the next. Life just tends to dish out more of the latter....
I’m afraid a really good “Picker Filter” would screen out at least two-thirds of the women out there, and if they’re over thirty and not currently married, possibly so close to 100% as to be a useless tool. Odds might be better with married women, but we're not allowed to fish in that pond, and the one's that take the bait are bad news anyway.
Not forgetting that this works both ways, I’ve been thinking about what to tell my boys, who are reaching the age where this wisdom is important. Here’s my provisional list, others are encouraged to add to it as they see fit.
1. Family History, aka FOO Issues. As someone pointed out in the last BMenz thread, if you marvel that “she’s the only one in her family that’s not fucked up”, you’re wrong about that.
2. Adult Child of Alcoholics, aka ACOA. So much bad FOO here that it deserves it’s own category, and fairly easy to discover, whereas the psychology of #1 can be subtle.
3. Personal History, especially history of multiple casual sex partners or multiple short-term or failed relationships.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I went 3 for 3 getting these wrong and married a beautiful woman who only took 4 years to go off the reservation. But, see the comments above, she was so smokin’ hot that I wasn’t going to let her get away that easy and followed my own version of Wert’s strategy. 30 years later, we’re still married, still in love, and at 62 she’s still smokin’ hot.
We Will Overcome.
[This message edited by MoreWould at 4:37 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]
It's easy to bang on people who have screwed up.
It is. Although there is a stage where those demons have to be exercised so to speak.
I feel it is just to point out to someone who wronged you, how that makes you feel.
You can look at it a few ways. The wise WS often cite, how much punishment is enough. I think that is a " me" view. It might feel like punishment to the recipient, but the person releasing it is really going through a time were those feelings have to be expressed so the underlying primary emotion can rise to the surface.
It depends on which side of the coin you are on. One is punishment the other is purging the bad feelings. I think that can get lost in that discussion sometimes. My .02
DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
My defense is be present and pay close attention to them. What they say, what they do and how they act. No shinny veneer. Just the facts...Oh yeah and if you see shit...call em on it. Watch how they react. Direct people who are telling the truth don't squirm....
I would also argue that any BH needs to fix their picker because they are with someone who needs to be observed differently based on historical data....not living in fear, but closely paid attention to....
my two cents...
How to fix it? Not a clue.
I do think that getting myself to a point where I am comfortable being by myself is a start. I need to be on my own for a while to work on some things before I will even consider looking around. Once I reach the point of being happy on my own I think I will be ready. I'm giving myself a couple years minimum for that to happen. I have a lot of healing to do.
Why does this have to be my lot in life? What if I want better for me? Is that really so wrong? I'm 35 damn it... I'm not 90. I have 2/3rds of my life in front of me (knock-on-wood)... I don't know if I can stand wasting that much of my life married to someone who did what my WW did. Yes, she's sorry now. She's trying now. She seems remorseful. But I just don't know... maybe I'm just being greedy. Maybe I have some image in my head of what M should be, and I'm pissed because that image has a big stain on it now.
Bottom line - If I can't find it in my to reconnect with her, to love her...is it really so wrong to move on?
She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.
Is it fear? Is it shame? We all have our deal breakers. It could be that you just won't get over your WW's A still being married to her. If you really feel deep down that you can't or won't love and respect her again I think you might have our answer. You don't deserve to be locked into something that you don't truly want. And your WW doesn't deserve to have that hanging over her head all the time for the rest of her life either. It's hard to make that choice until you can take a step back and really look at it for what it is. I don't know when your dday was but maybe you just need more time to let the emotional dust settle so to speak. I waited till I knew I could make a rational decision based on my WW's actions (turned out to be inaction really). I feel for you. I have been there for sure. I am still dealing with it on a certain level too. You'll get through this.
ETA - As far as being the "good guy", I am right there with you. My STBXWW and I still live together. We both agreed to D. BUT, she has some addiction issues that she is working on I agreed to stay and support her through that so long as she is actively working through it. We have a date set to move out and if I don't see any improvements I am out of there quicker than she can blink. But I still feel a sense of duty to help someone in need, even if she shit all over me and our marriage like she did. I have pity, one of my biggest weaknesses.
[This message edited by RyeBread at 4:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]
she has some addiction issues that she is working on I agreed to stay and support her through that so long as she is actively working through it. We have a date set to move out and if I don't see any improvements I am out of there quicker than she can blink. But I still feel a sense of duty to help someone in need, even if she shit all over me and our marriage like she did. I have pity, one of my biggest weaknesses.
Rye, that's pretty empathetic stuff right there. I wish I could still support my wife through her terminal illness, but I have to focus on me. Since she chose her boyfriend as her caregiver over me, I can't be around that. I am trying not to care, because it is to damn painful, but it is hard. She had scans last week to look at her tumors. And she asked me whether I wanted to know the results, and I just told her, not particularly. When friends who don't know about our situation ask how she is doing I have to tell them that I have no clue and to ask the boyfriend.
Damn hard to be empathetic. Good for you, Rye.
Nice FP. Must have felt good to have the MC confirm that your wife needs to own her shit.
My personal story was R after almost completed D. And I needed it. For reasons I won't go into again, my son needed it. And it has made my acceptance of the whole shitstorm easier. But that doesn't mean I have not struggled with the painful thoughts that by offering R, I let her get away with it.
But she hasn't.
And so far, that has changed everything.
I no longer defer to her whims. If it matters to me, I call her out. I accept nothing less that what I find acceptable and I don't let her use sex as a weapon. I find not taking shit from her a far better existence.
And you know what, she offers way less grief for me than ever. I am not sure, but she acts like she respects me and damned if I will ever get back to the place of putting her before me ever again.
It is a hard road. Forgiveness is not a simple gift to give, but one that needs daily contemplation and action. Especially for something so soul crushing.
But the other side of it is a much better place to live than in angry depression.
[This message edited by reallyscrewedup7 at 4:56 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]