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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Luck FP. At 8 months, my FWW *began* to show remorse. Regret up til then. I was damn close to walking.

OTS, I'm in a little different sitch than most. 5 LTR's, 5 cheating women. Sometimes I wonder if I'm staying because I don't believe there are ANY faithful women out there. That thought is not coming as frequently anymore, I realize that there are truly faithful women out there, my broken picker just doesn't allow me to *see* them.

As for what the marriage will become? My standards took a huge jump in expectations. I will not just accept an *ordinary* M now. She has to really step up her game to keep me interested.

Ironically, as she does, I find myself also stepping it up. Who knew?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2046 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTS -

I do think the answer (in so much as it exists) to those questions are about answering your own why. Meaning why I stayed at first and then why I continue to. For me, as for many I think, this is about defining my own narrative about my M and most importantly about my life.

I stayed at first because it was the best thing for me and my kids. This was very practically based. I needed time to figure out the money, emotional and social part of separating off from her. Why should I leave if it wasn't good for me? I left my M without leaving it physically. I then saw my W changing and trying hard to save her M. She communicates more effectively with me, she talks to me about her internal dialog and what she is going through emotionally. At times this is taxing, but I understand now that its critical that I listen to this fully. I need to really see her and hear her. Not for her solely but for me. I want to understand her. In many ways that is intimacy for me now.

My W's A is apart of my narrative, but so is my ability to transcend it. My ability to broadly look at our relationship over the years, look at her efforts know, look at whatever deficits I/she have and put it all in to the context of what I want my life to look like.

I decide what that looks like not her stupid A. My narrative is that she was messed up, I figured out how she was messed up from my perspective, she changed many of those things about herself and I dropped a huge pile of grace and worldly understanding on her. That's not arrogance, those are the facts of the story. I don't view myself as better than her but I take a lot of pride in my level of understanding and ability to forgive.

There are dark times when I question. That said, I would suggest that is true of most major decisions in ones life. Shit a lot of the small ones for that matter.

IMO - Answer your own why. Mentally, write your own story. Be your own hero. Hopefully, she fits into all that.

take care...


[This message edited by wert at 9:22 AM, September 18th (Wednesday)]



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Maxiom
♂ Member
Member # 26001
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read a few studies that indicate that many of us tend to make the same mistakes in relationships. That initial attraction or “chemistry” is often the result of familiarity…and if we happen to have a history of being attracted to self-absorbed-borderline-bi-polar-sociopaths.. well then..

Before my wife I wasn’t really a LTR kind of guy. I had a lot of short term or casual relationships maybe a couple of middling length. I guess I fit the emotionally unavailable stereotype. As of right now.. I couldn’t tell you if my decision to move to a LTR and then to marriage was driven by my simply being tired of casual relationships, or due to familial and social pressure to conform to convention. Regardless, should my wife and I not make it, I would have no plan to ever be in an LTR. I do know with absolute certainty that I’ll not marry again.


Me: FBS/WS 41
Her FWS/BS 41
My DDay - March 10, 2007 Whole Truth - May 2007
Her DDay - March 2, 2011
True NC March 3, 2011

Posts: 433 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Canada
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just feel like I'm settling for a M that will never, ever, be the same again.

it won't be, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. I had put far too much stock into a ceremony and some words.

I found me, do what I want etc etc-she can stay or leave, up to her. I'm ok.
I question staying nearly every day, but seeing my kids every day is worth it.

Some days though....


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5358 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something in what wert posted got me thinking....

I realize now just how fucked in the head my ww really is. The marriage will never be the same, and my opinion of her will never be the same. She shattered her pedestal, I feel no pride anymore in being her husband. I do not trust her, do not have much respect for her, and most times feel indifferent as far as love goes.
Now having said that, how will I feel is she actually does clean her shit up. If she transcends all this, and if somehow can keep me along for the ride, will my feelings change. Those are monumental ifs. I'm under no delusional expectation that its even probable she will become a better person moving forward. But if the odds are against her, and she does it what then? Will I gain some of that respect for her back? Will I be able to see some strength of character in her again?

Maybe that type of thinking is living in a fantasy land, but I guess its one way of looking at things and seeing a glimmer of hope.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 414 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At 8 months out, I don't even feel like it's about the details that could potentially be in there, and more about the effort, or lack thereof.

For me the details mean everything because anything that's left out indicates lying, hiding and not owning her shit. My gut, which never lies, is always unsettled when it comes to this topic. This tells me there are still things I don't know about.

Here's her timeline - we did it a couple of times, that's all you need to know. When she agreed to take a polygraph but with the stipulation that no questions could be asked about the first 8 to 9 years of our M, I knew she would never tell me the truth.

Quick question for everyone in this thread who is trying to R.... how often do you question that decision?

Daily, as well as my sanity.

Resources such as SI didn't exist 20 years ago.

A really good point. In my own experience, it did me no good to discuss the A's with anyone except those who had walked in my shoes. Most, including my pastor, friends, family members, seemed to be uncomfortable with the whole topic. All are married and maybe it struck a nerve as if it could happen to them.

I left my M without leaving it physically

That's a great observation. We're occasional roommates who talk on the phone every night(she lives elsewhere five days a week because of work). If we came into a large amount of money, it would be over the next day.

I found me, do what I want etc etc-she can stay or leave, up to her. I'm ok.
I question staying nearly every day, but seeing my kids every day is worth it.

Exactly!


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...everyone in this thread who is trying to R.... how often do you question that decision?

ots,

Prior to dday I was in the M for better or worse. I almost never thought of D no matter how shitty the M had become. I was also optimistic that I could make it better.

After dday D is always an option if the M is not working for me. I realize now that given FWW's issues, I should have filed well before dday.

Try not to think of it as a dichotomy of either D or R. I carved out some space for me to watch, work on me, and not make a decision. It was not D and it was not R. I called it “Not Divorcing”© Not Divorcing gives a nice passive buffer between the active options of D or R.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3959 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...everyone in this thread who is trying to R.... how often do you question that decision?

Not as often as I used to. I tend to question it more when we are having a bad day or a bad week, but then I have to take a step back and realize that no matter whom I am in a marriage with, or even if I am by myself, there are bound to be bad days and bad weeks.

For now we are trekking along, and moving forward. It feels like the right thing to do, both for the kid, and for us (not to mention the dogs). Finances come to mind, but I've always had the theory that "money is only worth so much". I'd rather be a happy hobo than a miserable millionaire. Don't get me wrong... I am currently very far off from being a millionaire, but you get the point.

A big part of this process for me is to learn how to live in the moment. That's been a struggle. The past is ugly. The future is uncertain. All I have is today. Fortunately, my wife is being good and faithful to me in the here and now, so I appreciate that.


"The hero of my tale, whom I love with all the power of my soul, whom I have tried to portray in all his beauty, who has been, is, and will be beautiful, is Truth." - Leo Tolstoy

Posts: 4448 | Registered: Dec 2010
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This, from Wert brought up an interesting thought in me.

I would suggest that is true of most major decisions in ones life. Shit a lot of the small ones for that matter.

My W has mild OCD, one of the ways it expresses is intense buyer's remorse for almost every purchase, no matter how minor. I just wanted her, just once, to show as much remorse over her A as she did over her last T-shirt purchase.

"What do you think honey, does this dick look bad in me? Do you think it's too small? Should I keep it, or send it back?"

That was never, ever gonna happen, but I can have dreams too.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dang man... if I wrote those words myself they couldn't be more true.

What the hell... my wife gets to be fucked by another man and if I decide to do something about it I get the privilege of being fucked by the courts.

"Sorry big guy," says the judge. "I know you wife cheated on you, but.... she gets half your stuff and, oh yeah, you get to write checks to her for the next 10 years."

I think that if we were honest with ourselves many of us stay in our M for this very reason. They get to play and we get to pay.

As far as second guessing our choice? In my case every day. I lived in a fault state on Dday. Had I D her then she would have walked away with the clothes on her back. I would have gotten everything else and had primary care of my boys. I also could have sued OM for alienation of affection and easily won.

BUT I followed the advice of waiting a year before deciding. By the time the year passed we were living in Kalifornia. So there you go.

If we stay in the M I believe it is possible to emotionally D (in our head). WW now is a friend. I treat her well. We have sex (a friend with benefits) but my well being is not tied to anything she does. I do as I please and I know that if she acts out again I will just move on with my life without her.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3044 | Registered: Sep 2007
DWBH
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Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...everyone in this thread who is trying to R.... how often do you question that decision?

The stretches between get longer and longer. Probably once a month now, maybe less.


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...everyone in this thread who is trying to R.... how often do you question that decision?

Every day. I owe it to myself to ask it every day. it keeps me honest to myself.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1794 | Registered: Nov 2010
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An observation: WAL, 5454real, LosferWords, and DWBH are all in R, have hopeful words, good advice, and all have one thing in common: they're wives are members here at SI.

I on the other hand have a wife who detests that I read and post on here and refuses to having anything to do with SI. Think there might be a correlation?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a coincidence! My WW hates SI as well.

She has gone as far as to say that my posting here is the same as her having her LTA.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3044 | Registered: Sep 2007
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I on the other hand have a wife who detests that I read and post on here and refuses to having anything to do with SI. Think there might be a correlation?

Na. I consider myself R'd. My wife was a remember here posted a small amount, but found her help in IC and through talking with me. She knows I post, reads sometimes and supports that I get help how I choose.

I would say it's not the membership that your W lacks that is concerning - people find help in ways that work for them - I would say it's her hatred of the place that is concerning. Reeks of insecurity to me...

Speaking of everything - you quoted me a while back on this page -

I left my M without leaving it physically

and I just want to point out that I checked out of my M for a while because my W was continuing to be an asshat. She has turned that shit around. I am not checked out anymore...shit changes sometimes...people do all the time....the direction? That's a completely different show on Oprah.

take care...



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
numb&dumb
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Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just feel like I'm settling for a M that will never, ever, be the same again.

That is true it won't ever be the same again. IF you are honest with yourself would you really want it ? Don't mistake naviete for happiness. Why does it have to be a bad M ? Can it have the equal chance of being a good one ? Or better yet, YOU, have a chance of living the life you always dreamed about ? You got a blank canvas and/or an exit clause with the rock solid rationale.

In my case now I ask, "why did I tolerate that M for so long ?"

I am doing fairly well now. AS Wert mentioned it took a heck of a lot of grace and understanding, but at the end of the day those were my W choices not mine. You deal with them or you let your W choices change you. I know that sounds simple, but in most cases (despite foggy WW assertions) their choices were not the result of anything you did or did not do. If they had married someone else, chances are they would still be in the same spot. To use the popular dating parlance, it is most certainly them, not you. It is the WW that are broken.

M is the sum of it's parts and when one of the values is a negative number. . .it takes away from the M (see above sum), but both numbers still represent a value independent of the M.

So how does the M get better ? Well for starters the negative number needs to work at increasing their value in two respects. 1. For their own self worth and esteem. 2. So that when summed with the other number (the M) create a number greater than each of those numbers individually. That is why you stay M. It enhances your life, not takes away from it. What enhances your life ? You look at yourself and what is important to you. Then you start about getting it. Your W may have to make some changes. If you are lucky, your W realizes she is a negative number and slowly starts increasing her value. If she wants to invent new math to show you are really the negative number, well, just because they say it does not make it true.

I am in the process of forgiving my W. While this sounds kind of rainbows and unicorn fartish, forgiveness is letting go of something that dominated my life for way too long. I am comfortable with the outcome today and I reserve the right to change my mind later. My choices stay the same as they were when I first got M.

The story I have paints me as a strong person who overcame obstacles, showed generosity to one who did not earn it and lived to tell the tale. My W story is that she made some very bad choices, but was lucky enough to be shown mercy and grace.

I am the hero and she is/was lucky. Who would you rather be ?

I think sometimes when women approach men like us, they sense an inner strength, a noble character and a willingness to commit (even though it hurts us).

To a woman (I know several. I even like most of them) there is nothing more attractive than that.

Of course if you happen to look like WB or have muscles like Tred, that doesn't hurt either.

(sorry had to slip that one in there)



Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2455 | Registered: May 2010
damaged71
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Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


You know what kept me around in the first couple of months? No joke, get ready for this....

I didn't leave because I didn't feel like cleaning my garage out. Seriously. I just didn't feel like doing it. I have a garage FULL of tools. Just didn't think I could muster the energy for that. I told my FWW that you can have everything, I don't care. I knew I couldn't leave my tools.

That's not very romantic but that's the truth. At the point I am now if I have a bad day I feel I could walk away without remorse. Each time we have a bad day it seems like a better option.

My wife is scared I am going to do just that. She keeps saying "I had a nightmare you had divorce papers drawn up. It would be horrible if you ever did that".

What she doesn't know is they were drawn up 17 months ago. I carry a card with my lawyers cell phone number on it. He instructed me to call at any time and he would have her served within 2 hours.

Does that make me a bad person?


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone figured out how to make sure their "women picker" has actually been fixed? Broke women find me irresistable. I have 9 more months before the year waiting period is up and D is finalized. I am in no way ready to date but damn if I am not paranoid about finding another fucked up person. Yes, I have a history of dealing with fucked up women. I just was lucky enough to only marry 1 of them. I literally have no desire to even try to date right now for 2 reasons. Reason 1: I see red flags everywhere, i.e., all women are secretly evil and eventually will either cheat or prove that my picker is indeed calibrated to incorrect match. Reason 2: I have no desire to put in any effort at all at the moment. I am hoping this will change over time and that my attitude of all women are evil will fade because I know they aren't but I don't have the energy to weed through the stupidity to even try to find the decent women.

I have been hanging out with a friend but we mutually friendzoned each other and neither of us wants anything from the other. We literally hang out every now and then for a drink or to talk. I keep myself busy and have been doing my own thing. My assumption is the time thing is the answer.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 1:35 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1557 | Registered: May 2011
ontheslope
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Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn man.... I think I got more out of the last 12 posts then I did out of two years of IC.... (maybe I need to find a new IC? )

I think we're all coming from the same place. I'm starting to realize that M doesn't have to be all roses and sunshine. It doesn't need to be two people madly in love with each other. It DOES need to be a workable arrangement with two people who are friendly with each other and who can accept the deficiencies in the other person and still move forward. I am not a quitter; I never have been. When I make promises I keep them. For better or for worse. And we have kids. I would love a chance to start over with someone knew, find love again, not have the emotional baggage and the trust issues and all, but is it really worth the years of hell and losing 1/2 of everything I own and missing out on seeing my kids?

I would agree also that I have kind of left my M without leaving it physically (see my comment in BM - Part 13 about WINO - Wife in Name Only). My WW and I are friends with benefits. I don't love her.... but maybe I don't need to.

I also agree with what 64fleet said - I've been working on me. I know I would still be upset if my WW left... I may not love her, but I still care about her, and she's been in my life for 16 years now (M for 12). But, I need to get to a place where I'd be comfortable leaving, so that if it came down to that I could just say "Sorry Hon. Time for me to move on."

D71 - I actually thought about doing the exact same thing. But my WW has been so forgiving and so caring that I haven't brought myself to do it yet... just frustrating that I lived through about 6 years of a loveless M AND went through my WW's A and yet it took me threatening to leave for her to finally wake-the-fuck-up and decide that I was worth keeping. Now she tells me every day that she's madly in love with me and always has been. Which... I don't really believe. If I was truly in love with someone I don't go sneaking to some guys house for a screw every other night.

Yes, I'm still bitter. Yes, I know it's not healthy. No, I don't care.

[This message edited by ontheslope at 1:42 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone figured out how to make sure their "women picker" has actually been fixed?

There have to be signs. Probably not laid out on the table on a first date though.

I dont know what the signs would be. Anyone?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


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