Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: northeasternarea (43214)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, up til a few generations ago women basically were props, so I think the problem is compounded by the lack of appropriate infrastructure to deal with new ideologies like "People aren't property." Hell, lots of places in the world they still are. I guess the benefit of that is not worrying over the financials. Bitch, gimme that dowry and GTFO. These are my fuckin' cows now.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think the inherent cowardice of not wanting to risk the sure thing for that which might/might not be better can be underestimated.

That's why it has to be kept a secret. That's why the WS doesn't just throw their hands up and say, "You know what? I'd like to try something else, because I think I can do better."

Because they don't want *you* to have the option (or, perhaps, verbalize what may have been in your head all along) that *you* can do better.

Isn't that the core of the tremblesome RA that so many folks start worrying about roughly 3.7 seconds after D-Day? That the BS might just be more successful at trading up? That the BS might, in fact, might just be able to replace the WS rather easily, both physically and emotionally?

You know what? I love my wife, but my wife is not all women. I know this. She is not a biker chick, for instance. She is not a biker chick who stays up until 3 AM pounding shots, then strips down to her leather thong and fucks you on the back of her motorcycle.

I have known some hot chicks like that. They have their good points.

I've known some hot chick June Cleaver types, too. My wife isn't one of those, either.

When I chose my wife, I closed the door on those other opportunities. The Bad Boy thing is about wanting to re-open those closed doors and re-consider a life unlived -- only without the risk of losing the house, the money, the investments, the stability, the satellite TV, the late model car, shopping for clothes at places not named Wal-Mart, etc., etc., etc.

(For the record, I also know some of those 40 y.o. Bad Boys. Very few of them have successfully climbed the socio-economic ladder into the upper stratum and kept their Bad Boy persona. And if they have, they tend to like to burn their "work hard/play hard" resources on their own toys, not cut them in half for a free-loading bit of pussy. Of course, that's also part of being the Bad Boy, is that you don't really offer much in the way of stability or promised long-term fidelity.)

And I can guaran-damn-tee you that those amongst us who *are* the Bad Boys who settled down just enough to try to provide that minimum of stability/fidelity their cheating wife demanded, got to hear about how *their* big failure that caused the A was lack of commitment/stability/selflessness that led to their WW fucking the dad of 4 kids office manager at the wife's job.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bitch, gimme that dowry and GTFO. These are my fuckin' cows now.

Why buy the milk when you can get the cows for free?


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...or milk 'em through the fence?
Speaking of Tred & 25 beers, I noticed my fave brewery up there at #1 - Live Oak.
Whooaa!
God bless you wal & sparkles.

Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you tell when an engineer is an extrovert?

When he talks to you, he looks at your shoes.


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shit I feel bad about:

(going back a couple of pages)

I saw the movie of The Postman, and consequently never got around to reading the book.

...and yet, the movie is so hokey, I'll sit down and watch it to the end every time I stumble on it. I don't want the book to ruin that.

I feel like I owe David Brin an apology.

ETA: All of these engineers, and not one of you are a train engineer. Son, I am disappoint.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 9:10 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My job title is Network Engineer but I haven't built a network in years. Mostly I fix shit for people smarter than I am.

When I chose my wife, I closed the door on those other opportunities. The Bad Boy thing is about wanting to re-open those closed doors and re-consider a life unlived -- only without the risk of losing the house, the money, the investments, the stability, the satellite TV, the late model car, shopping for clothes at places not named Wal-Mart, etc., etc., etc.

Yeah. It never occurred to me that those doors could even be pried open until all this shit happened.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ETA: All of these engineers, and not one of you are a train engineer. Son, I am disappoint.

No, but I did work for the railway one summer.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL:

I have been a train engineer for the last 20 years. But, I would rather be one of those smart math engineers. Being gone all the time isn't so fun with trust issues and WW.


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And the correct term is Locomotive Engineer.


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think my great niece prefers the term choo-choo.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, we're like 7 weeks or whatever into raising the new kids. We're discovering almost daily what a shitty experience they've come out of: neglect, abuse, fending for themselves, hunger, poverty, cSAb stuff.

Wal:

My wife and I adopted 4 foster kids 9 years ago, so I say from experience it will get worse before it gets better. All I can tell you is hang in there and don't give up. You will start to question if you are doing any good because changes happen so slowly that you don't notice until one day you look back and realize how far the kids have come. Just keep constant pressure even when you can not give anymore. The whole experience has brought my wife and I closer, for no other reason than we had to team up for survival. It does take a toll however, it did on my wife. About 2 years into it she became very depressed and it lasted a long time. You are probably more aware than I was so maybe you can look out for that and stop it sooner. It is a calling from God and you should be immensely proud of yourself and your wife.

[This message edited by doubleboggy at 6:38 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another Mechanical Engineer in the bunch.


There are givers and there are takers. Period. You are on one side of the fence or the other.
I agree, sort of, with this. I believe there is a balance that's needed between both. The problem comes in when there is no balance. In my case my STBXW was a giver but she gave not out of the goodness of her heart but to get the affirmation that comes when people told her how great she was for helping out or being there. She is addicted to being needed. That should have been my first sign, I didn't need her for anything. I was emotionally and financially stable. At the time of our M there was nothing about me that needed fixing or assitance. I thought I was marrying a partner that would complement me. Fuck Jerry Maguire, I didn't need completing because I was and am complete on my own. Because I didn't NEED her, somehow that got translated into I didn't love her. Of course instead of coming to me like an adult and letting me know she was fucked up in the head she goes to OM#1 to "talk". Shit gets weird in the M after that and I get to walk around wondering what the fuck is wrong with my M until 7 yrs later when DDay hits on the 3 yr LTA with her coworker. Second OM was going through issues in his M and needed her support. Many women, not all, talk about needing a secure man but damned if they have no fucking idea what to do with one when they actually have one. I realize this goes both ways, this site alone is proof enough that there are plenty of dumbass guys out there as well.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2011
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have enough ME's in here to build something something cool. I used to be an engineer (CS) but now I'm just a manager.

7yrs, your post reminds me of something Ats said a while back (paraphrasing from memory): I was happy in the M, which proved she was a good wife. She was unhappy in the M, which proved I was a lousy H. Fuck Jerry Maguire as well. I remember my wife asking me incredulously when I said I was happy that I couldn't of been. She isn't qualified to know if I'm happy obviously. Kinda hard to believe when I remember conversations telling her how happy and content I was. I knew there was an economic level I was never going to reach, but I was pretty damn happy of where we were. Not my fault she didn't believe me and transferred her unhappiness into we both must be miserable, and fucking other guys is the path to happiness. That ain't working out too well.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's how I felt. She knew she had it good, and didn't want to give up her stability for an honest life. She decided to have both because, as you all know, I would never find out. I was a tool too. Used like one. I feel like that a lot of the time for sticking around.
I think WWs seem to fall into one of two camps: 1) those that inherently KNOW that they have a good thing in their marriage and try to keep the A secret because of it, and 2) those who sincerely believe that their marriage is a fucked-up place to be, but are too chickenshit to accept the (social/emotional/financial) sacrifices that come with divorce...so they decided in their own brain that the marriage is dead and begin to move on....without telling their husbands as much. Who knows, they could have been in actual shitty marriages, or they could have been in relatively 'normal' marriages that were being judged against a faulty standard. I know that WSs tend to rewrite marital history...but I also know that I've read post by BS members here (Male and Female) on SI where I think, "Wow...you sound like you'd be awful to be married to."

Doesn't absolve the WSs in those examples of their shitty choices for a second.

That being said, I feel like this:

Because they don't want *you* to have the option (or, perhaps, verbalize what may have been in your head all along) that *you* can do better.
...still applies in either case.

One thing I'll never get is what attracts OM to married women in the examples where the OM thinks they are "in love" with the married woman. I know that down here we like to paint all of the OM as players, looking for an easy score to get off...but I also know that there are plenty of OM who sincerely believed that they 'loved' the married woman they were screwing around with. I mean, when OM sit by themselves and think about their attraction and possibly the future, what positive traits can they possibly see? This is a person that is either too fucking scared to end their marriage despite complaining about it for god-knows-how-long, or is so vile that that she has a good husband and still cheats on him. I know that we demonize OM here (and rightly so), and I'll never make the argument for them being the most nuanced logical thinkers in the world....but damn, really? Dopamine and Norepinephrin...?

WAL-
I thought your post about raising those kids was really enlightening and a little scary, too. It's like you said, when the veneer of sophistication is stripped away, it's really kind of frightening to see how those little manipulative thought processes are there so young and take root...and are affirmed and re-affirmed so often because constantly fighting them (as a caregiver) takes so much effort. You're fighting the good fight, sir, and even if you and sparkle can't ever get them totally to a healthy place I have little doubt that they'll still be vastly better than they would have otherwise.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case my STBXW was a giver but she gave not out of the goodness of her heart but to get the affirmation that comes when people told her how great she was for helping out or being there. She is addicted to being needed. That should have been my first sign, I didn't need her for anything. I was emotionally and financially stable. At the time of our M there was nothing about me that needed fixing or assitance. I thought I was marrying a partner that would complement me. Fuck Jerry Maguire, I didn't need completing because I was and am complete on my own. Because I didn't NEED her, somehow that got translated into I didn't love her. Of course instead of coming to me like an adult and letting me know she was fucked up in the head she goes to OM#1 to "talk". Shit gets weird in the M after that and I get to walk around wondering what the fuck is wrong with my M until 7 yrs later when DDay hits on the 3 yr LTA with her coworker.

Dude. This is so dead on for my wife that it's eery.
I remember my wife asking me incredulously when I said I was happy that I couldn't of been.
This right here, too. I think that's one of the things that those of us trying to reconcile struggle with to some degree...the different perceptions of the pre-A marriage. I see some of our more tenured, more healed Waywards on here who eventually come to the conclusion that "Oh shit...maybe my marriage wasn't really fucked up, I just had no clue WTF I was talking about back then."...but what happens if your wife does all the stuff we associate with remorseful WW and fixes her shitty coping skills going forward and is generally pretty awesome from this day hence...but you two STILL disagree on the state of your pre-A marriage. From the LifeBoat post by WAL's wife:
****The seaweed is next. This in the idea that somehow your spouse’s behavior before the A added to the reasons that you had an affair. Yep, you heard me. The A is 100% you fault. Is 50% part of the overall marital problems his? Nope. If your thinking was messed up and led to you have an Affair, it was and is probably messed up thinking about the dynamic of your marriage. You can become tangled in marital history and lose sight of what you are fighting for, lose your commitment to saving your marriage.
I’m not talking about rewriting the marriage history to justify an Affair. I’m talking about subconscious blame shifting onto the normal problems that a marriage faces. Like when your husband didn’t pay attention to you even when you tried to engage him.
...and I wonder how many WWs actually, truly get to that point, you know?

(MODS: If pulling that quote from the LifeBoat post is frowned upon, I'll happily remove it. I think I'm using it in a relatively positive way and in the spirit of how it was intended, but I'll edit it out if need be)

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:00 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seeing as how we have so many engineers on here (I'm a systems engineer - does that count?)... I vote for that the SI men from this thread should band together and build a big a$$ pumpkin thrower for the 2014 Punkin' Chunkin' competition.

Who's with me?!?!?

And I'll second the thoughts around bad boys and stability and such. Let's face it: Marriage can be boring. Stable, safe, secure, but boring. I wonder sometimes if my WW didn't have her A just because safe/secure/stable wasn't what she really wanted. She came from a fucked up family where something crazy happened all the time - perhaps our M was just to "normal" for her. She had to find a way to fuck it up just to keep it exciting.

And now I'm left picking up the pieces.


To my WW:

You know what... M can be boring. Get over it. It's part of what you signed up for. You don't think I'd like to wet-my-whistle on a cute young thing? You don't think I look at other women and wonder if they could be more exciting? Of course I do. WE ALL DO. But you know what, when push comes to shove, we keep our fucking pants on. But some times I'm really tempted... I wouldn't mind having my cake and eating it too, ya know.

[This message edited by ontheslope at 8:57 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder sometimes if my WW didn't have her A just because safe/secure/stable wasn't what she really wanted. She came from a fucked up family where something crazy happened all the time - perhaps our M was just to "normal" for her. She had to find a way to fuck it up just to keep it exciting.
Same here...and to be fair, I don't think that it's usually a conscious thing. I think many of our WWs really believed that they wanted to be married, have kids, have stability....but once they get there the FOO issues start churning around in their subconscious. "Oh, you're not really happy..." or "Oh, this isn't what family is supposed to feel like" or "If he *really* loved you, he'd tell you more often" or "You don't deserve this". My wife came from a REALLY chaotic and unstable home...she spent her entire childhood trying to please her mother by 'being good' and 'being helpful' and 'not making any trouble'...and on the few times she did make some waves or inconvenience her mom in any way (such as not watching her kids for her), she was roundly admonished for it. So what did she do? She started making her mistakes in private instead of where she could be seen...she got as many hobbies, sports, and jobs as she could in order to both avoid her mom's (direct) presence, while STILL trying to win her approval in vain. Her mom never said "Great job" or any kind of positive reinforcement, but when my wife did what was expected of her she at least got left alone. Throw in some cSAB stuff into the pot, and you get a nasty brew.

ETA: I wanted to add that I think many times, the justification pattern fits the specific marriage. So if your WW had a chaotic upbringing and your house is relatively stable, then her growing unease gets explained (ex post facto, of course) by her unconscious craving for chaos. If your home environment is somewhat chaotic, then her unhappiness gets explained as not having the stability she's always lacked. It's the game where you always lose.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:54 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seeing as how we have so many engineers on here (I'm a systems engineer - does that count?)... I vote for that the SI men from this thread should band together and build a big a$$ pumpkin thrower for the 2014 Punkin' Chunkin' competition.

Who's with me?!?!?

Given their rules against wadding I think something like a counterweight trebuchet would probably be really effective, since it wouldn't apply any kind of crushing force to the pumpkin before or during launch and could hurl the damn thing pretty far with some solid accuracy and no need for barrels or anything.

With three minutes time to fire you could even maybe apply some additional force to the counterweights to kinda 'spin them up' for lack of better wording. Also that would look cool. Something electromagnetic so there's a big fucking whine like a monster tesla machine about to totally fuck everything up. It would need to look steampunk with big wooden wheels braced with metal sheeting of some kind.

Totally impractical but stylin.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.