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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
foundoutlater
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Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all – hope all the beer last night is not still impacting you today. My night last night was kind of opposite – no beer but got a little fun before the W left. The Sam Adams Octoberfest is still cold and should be good tonight though.

Man two days in a row I had the “fuck I feel lucky” thought. I posted about the first one yesterday. Now it is as it relates to kids. I’m “lucky” that all this shit went down before we had kids, and maybe she had worked on some of her shit before the kids were born.

I really feel for all of you who are dealing with the kids knowing or with the W not being there for the kids. I know dealing with this shit after the fact has had an impact on mine. Peace to all of you who are finding your way through that part of this journey.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said Sal,
For me it was several things. The psychological composting that aesir referenced is one factor. It's hard to rugsweep and go into denial about your own behavior when you have to verbalize it and feel the shame that results. Also, I'm her husband so she has no right to keep sexual secrets from me. I'm supposed to be there when she's having sex, after all. Third, she's my wife and I already know what she'll do/ won't do in bed. I had no illusions about what happened after about 100 hookups, but I wanted her to tell me because it's hard to do and she deserves to have to work hard to repair the enormous damage she did to our marriage. Telling all requires a painful degree of honesty, which was in short supply with her during her affair. Honesty is a good habit for waywards to develope.

and

#40 - I never meant to hurt you.

i.e., I never meant to get caught!

I got that line too fireguy. There must be a WW handbook.

My WINO said on her umpteenth TT "I was going to take it to the grave with me" (the details of which she probably will)

Classic handbook material.

Sorry, been lurking a bit lately, tired of her doing her 'mind reading' through my posts here. Carry on, i'm with y'all in spirit.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for a different glass for each beer, that sounds kinda gimmicky.
Not really, there is often as much work put into developing the glass as the brew itself. Do yourself a favor and do NOT google beer glassware. Some Belgian brews put a lot of effort into making a glass that preserves and promotes all the flavors and aromas present in the beer, trying to keep the gas exchange to a minimum, preserve the perfect head...

InBev has a long history in Canada of brewing some truly atrocious swill, as well as owning the Blue Jays and the Argonauts, both despised by all right thinking Canadians.

In one must be near Toronto, there is a little fake English pub about an hour west in Georgetown that has well over a dozen, maybe two dozen different beers on tap. Stare cluelessly at the drink menu when ordering your dinner, and the bartender might offer to bring you samples of each, a whole platter full of half ounce glasses of beer. One of the most interesting was a stout called 5W30, the handle on the tap even looked like a bottle of motor oil.

Yeah, it sucks the way people will try to hang onto details they find embarrassing or shameful or whatever, trying to avoid making things worse when they already are, and instead it is just dragging the secrets around like an anchor. Then if they ever do stop that, you wonder if that is really it, or what else is being hidden. Back when I was desperate, I had even considered buying some voice stress analysis software because it could be used live or with recordings after the fact. Never did go there, but I remember being that... whatever it was...


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all – hope all the beer last night is not still impacting you today. My night last night was kind of opposite – no beer but got a little fun before the W left. The Sam Adams Octoberfest is still cold and should be good tonight though.
I actually didn’t mess with beer last night…had a couple of Bacardi/Cokes w/ Lime and watched ‘Hope Springs’ with the wife. I actually thought it was pretty enjoyable, myself. I was worried that since it was about a wife basically dragging her emotionally unavialable (really, truly EU) husband to a weekend of intensive MC that it’d be all about him being a fuckup, and it wasn’t. They both had things they weren’t bringing to the marriage…neither person was really demonized.
For me it was several things. The psychological composting that aesir referenced is one factor. It's hard to rugsweep and go into denial about your own behavior when you have to verbalize it and feel the shame that results. Also, I'm her husband so she has no right to keep sexual secrets from me. I'm supposed to be there when she's having sex, after all. Third, she's my wife and I already know what she'll do/ won't do in bed. I had no illusions about what happened after about 100 hookups, but I wanted her to tell me because it's hard to do and she deserves to have to work hard to repair the enormous damage she did to our marriage. Telling all requires a painful degree of honesty, which was in short supply with her during her affair. Honesty is a good habit for waywards to develope.
This is always been the real reason that I think I’ve demanded information/details/timeline, etc….for me, it’s not so much the info contained therein (at least not anymore). It’s all about the process to some degree. About the painful work of having to look your spouse in the eye and explain the awful, awful things you’ve done….without it being a series of “yes/no/maybe/I don’t know” question and answer sessions. I don’t know…maybe that sounds like punishing?

Nah. I’m just ‘acting out of hurt’.

My wife and I had a system set up for a while where I would fire off whatever questions I had each Monday morning via email, and she had until the end of the day to answer them. It worked really well, to be honest. I stopped eventually…the mental questions DID slow down a bit, but mostly the process felt off, and that’s why I stopped asking. I felt like she should be providing all of this info without my prompting, you know? If I have to guide her through the damn process, then what’s the point?

Then if they ever do stop that, you wonder if that is really it, or what else is being hidden.
That’s why I feel like even a tiny bit of TT is so damaging. Because when you get that very first “…and that’s the whole story”, and it turns out to be bullshit, everything else from there on out is suspect…even if it does seem to be SOP for waywards. I think I’m getting to a point of…well…not so much acceptance, but I’m beginning to accept the fact that because there WAS TT (and still could be), I will never 100% know that I’m on firm ground.

Trickle Truth: It’s the fecal-flavored after-dinner drink that washes down the shit sandwich.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 5:17 PM, September 21st (Saturday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not really, there is often as much work put into developing the glass as the brew itself. Do yourself a favor and do NOT google beer glassware. Some Belgian brews put a lot of effort into making a glass that preserves and promotes all the flavors and aromas present in the beer, trying to keep the gas exchange to a minimum, preserve the perfect head...

I love beer and the chemistry behind it, and I can understand different glasses can promote different benefits, but I think a specific glass for a specific brew is a gimmick if serious. The simple fact that yeast variants can mutate in a year just on its own means using a glass for a specific beer based on chemistry that finely tuned will make that glass useless in a very short time with that minute a variation. Glasses for a Stout or a Porter, or a Lager, Ale, etc, sure. For specific subtypes and actual specific brews? Realistically the cost of that would be astronomical given the ridiculous level of attention required.

I dunno, I am probably wrong. Just seems like the whole THE CAN TURNS BLUE WHEN ITS COLD thing.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THE CAN TURNS BLUE WHEN ITS COLD thing.
WTF?

That's a gimmick?!?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I guess its not a gimmick in the sense that if you have to all but freeze the beer so you don't taste it, then it's shitty beer. So it's like a warning label I guess.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
slater13
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Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It isn't about the details so much- though I do want to know what she did with him she refuses to do with me. More so it is about being honest. Cold hard honesty. Admitting the shit she never thought she would have to mention. It seems to me that until we get to that point we can't really begin to recover.

She painted the whole story in the light of him driving the bus and she almost reluctantly going along. Total bs. Case in point- she said they were at a conference at a resort with cabins - somehow he booked the cabin next door. She implied he just figured it out. Well that is bs- hotels can't tell a 3rd party which room you book. I said you told him which cabin you rented- so he could book the one next door. She relied- maybe, I don't remember exactly. Even our MC called her out. The fact that she still can't own up to her participation is troubling. It shows a lack of growth. I don't know guys- I am really tired of this. But I am too chicken shit and not willing to leave my kids. Maybe a strong 180 is what I need. Any ideas?

[This message edited by slater13 at 9:45 PM, September 21st (Saturday)]


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2013
kg201
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Member # 40173
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slater, My separation was mostly initiated by my WW, but once it began I started feeling much better. Much of my misery, I think, before we separated was the fear of, "How will the kids take it?. Or "Will I be lonely?" Or "how will we afford this?" Or "will I miss her?" Once the separation began, all of that fear was gone. It happened, and it sucked, but overall not having the fear anymore has allowed me to begin feeling more normal (not normal, but more normal).


Me: BH, 39
Her: WW, 40
Together 18 years, married 15+
LTA 3.5 years, ongoing
Dday: 7/28/13
Divorcing, 3 children
---------------------------------
"There can be no friendship without confidence, and no confidence without integrity." -S

Posts: 385 | Registered: Aug 2013
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The fact that she still can't own up to her participation is troubling. It shows a lack of growth. I don't know guys- I am really tired of this. But I am too chicken shit and not willing to leave my kids. Maybe a strong 180 is what I need. Any ideas?

Slater... Damn dude... it sounds like you are in a rough spot. It sounds like you really want to work on things, whether it be for your kids, or for you, or for both, for whatever reason, and you are just wishing your wife would come around and communicate with you, and be 100% honest with you and 100% transparent with you.

My understanding, and my brief experience with the 180 is that the 180 has nothing to do with opening up to communication with your wife. It's more about putting up walls with your spouse, and moving on with yourself. It's almost a precursor to separation, IMO. There have been a lot of cases that we have heard about on SI where a BS implements the 180, and the WS "sees the light", and things change. There's also a lot of cases where it just doesn't work out that way. The point is, the 180 isn't about changing our spouse's behavior, it's a tool to strengthen ourselves when it is needed.

That being said, you are the only person who knows whether you are ready or not to implement the 180, or whether that is even right for you.

Maybe another option is telling your wife what you felt was missing from her timeline, as far as what you needed. At the same time, expect some backlash from that ("Oh, I put in so much effort into this."), and be prepared to brush that to the side. I don't know maybe that's more of a "90" than a "180".

Either way, stand your ground like you have been doing. Spend a little bit of time each day to reassess your situation. Do what is right for you and your kids, even if it means thinking outside of the box a bit.

Sending strength to you.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit much.


Posts: 4557 | Registered: Dec 2010
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

slater, you aren't a chickenshit for being afraid to lose your kids. You're a father in pain. Do what you need to for yourself and your kids man. Don't shit on yourself for that.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have any of you guys read Cormac Macarthy's "The Road"? I keep hearing that it's great, but kind of depressing and intense....


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Stillkicking
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Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I haven't read here since mid day Friday so not sure what the topics are all about right but I gotta throw this in right now and any insight would cause I am at a loss, not that I care at all at this point, indifference is a wonderful thing kinda.

Anyways so WW hacked the old Facebook (I guess hacked isn't the right word she has all my passwords). And seen a chat between a coworker and flipped her shit, by the way nothing that could be concidered a inappropriate, and decided that I have been having an affair (cough cough hahahaha) with this woman for the last six months. Um ok high five. Anyways so now she tried pulling a huge ass guilt trip on me, and it turned it how I have done her wrong for so long. Ok again whatever. Turned it a giant fight, I said well maybe we should do an in house speration, and I would move my shit to the basement, she then proceeded to again tell me how I have wronged her so many times across our relationship, well not to be one to roll over and die I called her out on all, and I mean ALL her shit, including the fact that she STILL has poser in her contacts, after what 9 months POST DDAY, and her little hitch hiking escapade. But yet some how I am still the bad guy??????????????? (Yes it warranted that many question marks, you bunch of dicks lol) So I am just wondering, would you try and work this out or would you guys just cut your losses and call it done??? Oh yeah, this after I planned and executed an amazing party for her birthday which she made me feel like a piece of shit for doing. Wtf??? And then proceeds to beg me to come and comfort her broken heart tonight because she is so alone and scared, I'm sorry but where the FUCK where you when I needed you? Oh yeah, getting you some of your "soulmate".
Sorry guys, kinda turned into a rant. Either way I told her that I am done rolling over and dieing, I will sleep on the couch tonight and then move shit into the basement and make that my home. On the plus side my gym is right there so I can crush it out all night and not give a fuck right???

Apathy is a weapon of mass destruction


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
Stillkicking
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Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh yeah and coots banquet again tonight. Fuck I love it lol. And a new tag line

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 1:12 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sk, why suffer for her assholery? Let her move to the basement if that's what she wants so bad, no point in getting manipulated anymore. Slater man, I feel ya. I put up with over 2 years of the TT shake, worst years of my life bar none. I agree with Aesir and fp, her responding to your queries is just compliance, not demonstration of remorse. I haven't S yet but detaching and the 180 takes time and does wonders for your self esteem when you don't have to constantly struggle with gas lighting and being manipulated: FTN. Doesn't stop the mind movies nor the constant speculation, but it does free up your brain resources enough to focus on what should be important to you rather than what you consider to be important but isn't. (Working on R with a remorseless WW is definitely not worth your time).


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:22 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Aesir and fp, her responding to your queries is just compliance, not demonstration of remorse.

I don't think I said that, but I wish I had.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:05 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There was supposed to be an and there rather than the comma. Grammar broken.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Grilla
♂ New Member
Member # 40299
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

#44 "I never stopped loving you."

Plus to many others to count.

We're you loving me when you traveled to L.A., and slept through the night with this POS?
We're you loving me as you were sitting across from him at a nice dinner?
We're you loving me as I drove up to the vineyard and saw him making out with you and handling you?
Sorry, had to revive "the list of reasons"


Posts: 37 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Virginia
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quit drinking many years ago due to my turning into Mr. Hyde after one too many beers and the resulting chaos of that transformation. But having been born in Germany I was able to attend the Oktoberfests there on several occasions. Always liked the barmaids outfits.

Admitting the shit she never thought she would have to mention. It seems to me that until we get to that point we can't really begin to recover.

There you go. Trickle Truth and timelines? What's that? Around here information is given on a 'need to know basis,' and apparently I don't need to know. Mrs. Kite, or someone like her, could have been the inspiration for Roger Waters when he wrote "The Wall."

"All alone, or in two's,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall."

I said well maybe we should do an in house speration, and I would move my shit to the basement

Did that years ago with my TV and my beagle. Lots of solitude and rest is needed during the night in order to have the strength to deal with the insanity the following day.

SK, what your WW is doing is referred to by shrinks as 'projecting.' She's trying to say to you 'See, you're just as bad as I am.' The whole point is to get you to lay off her.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, September 22nd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Aesir and fp, her responding to your queries is just compliance, not demonstration of remorse.

I don't think I said that, but I wish I had

Seconded. I was moreso referring to my own process. My whole issue is that if you have to hold their hand from points A -> Z, then they don't experience the personal growth that comes along with the pain. It's the journey, not the end, that counts.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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