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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Came to a conclusion...but ladies don't be angry
StillLivin
♀ Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never considered D until he cheated on me. And, in the beginning I wanted to work on our M. He took his A underground. Then he went NC for several weeks after I packed and was moving out upon discovery of secret phone. Finally, I thought, he is coming to his senses.
Then, she emailed and emailed and emailed, oh poor me, I NEED you my KISA. We can be "just friends" please oh please oh please advise me on blah blah blah. He has a sick need for attention and adoration.
He came home from deployment and moved out the very next morning.
Now, I've filed for LS...can't afford the health insurance or dental insurance until I finish paying off this lawyer. But then converting to D once I've paid the insurance up front.
He has moved his AP, 20 years younger I might add, from PA to our state.
Was I unhappy in the M. Sometimes, but I DID have a healthy, realistic expectation that that was just marriage sometimes. You work on it, communicate, and forgive without bringing up the past. I did, but he didn't.
He told me he had the affair because I was upset about him buying a $90,000 Cadillac Escalade, that we couldn't afford. Said I said some "harsh" things to him.
Ummmm dumbass, you bought the Escalade in 07....your affair was in 10. Compartmentlaization at it's best?????
So, I don't know about your statistics, but I know it is ok to be disappointed in our M sometimes. That is going to happen when you take two people, and become one, when both have distinct and oftentimes different upbringings, family issues, perspectives, moral values, views on child rearing, hell who likes burgers and who likes hot dogs.
That is M. Maybe it's just society in general that has become more accepting of D and broken homes.
Ahhh, what do I know!


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2325 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
ninebark
♀ Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so easy to skew a statistic like that without getting facts. How many husbands cheated, how many women cheated, how many had abusive husbands, how many escaped a spouse with a drug and alcohol addition.....the list goes on.

This is like me saying "we'll since the courts generally award custody of the children to the mother, that must mean men aren't very good parents."

There are a multitude of reasons for divorce, why are women the one to file more,.,.i don't know, but I am going to look further into the facts before I make a statement that is less than flattering to half the population. Don't be angry.


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Pentup
♀ Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I might fit your profile. Still married, would like to be wearing dresses from the 40's, not always very happy being married. Yet all of my female friends are happily married, some are for the first time, some for the second or third time. I don't talk about my marriage to them, so maybe they think I am happy too? I don't talk about it because I am to busy being the major bread winner, working 50-60 hrs a week,, doing most of the household chores,paying bills, taking care of family, etc while my h works less than 40 hours, mows the lawn and spends all the rest of his Time on his hobbies.

So... If I were to take the brush that has defined my marriage and use it to broad brush all men, I would say that women are tired. Just that. Tired. Maybe we want a partner, someone who lifts us up, takes care of us and gives = to what we are giving. But I do not think that is true of all women or even a statistical percentage.

I prefer to spend my time working on me and not extrapolating that to a group. I keep looking at the log in my eye before I look for the splinter in the collective eye.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6604 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
Crescita
♀ Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think it's unrealistic expectations if a woman would rather be alone than in an unfulfilling relationship. I find it courageous for a man or a woman to say they are better off alone than mistreated or taken for granted. It's unrealistic to stay in a bad relationship thinking it is the best you can do or that the other person will change.

You might want to read the book, "Cutting Loose: Why Women Who End Their Marriages Do So Well" for the other perspective.

I really don't see it as any different than men like George Clooney opting to remain bachelors. Relationships are a lot of work. If your life is otherwise fantastic it is going to take a special sort of someone (the kind who will put in equal effort) to make it worth your while.


Posts: 3441 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Issaquah
♀ Member
Member # 34484
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't speak to the statistics, but I can use my female friends as antidotal examples. We're all in our late 30's early 40's. Three of my friends are in marital crisis.

The first friend's husband may be gay (she has never spoke of it, but we all suspected) and after 20 years of marriage wants more for her life. I believe she has retained an attorney and may be filing. She's talked about this on and off for the past 4 years but would never go into details about the "whys".

The second friend does not want a D but wonders what a new life would be like, has not seeked representation, but her M is in terrible crisis and her H has threatened D when fighting about the kids. The only thing that is an issue for her in their M is that he hasn't touched her in 4 years and she feels lonely/unloved.

The third friend is going through a D. Her up and left her, I'm not sure if she filed, but had no choice to not seek representation. He was having an A but she did not know it at the time. We weren't as close in their last few years of marriage, but I get the impression he was very negative and distant - but she never gave up on him.

With all my girlfriends they may have complained that their husband's didn't help out with the kids, the house, or did things to be romantic, but none of them ever considered D or was openly thinking or fantasizing about greener pastures. All of them wanted to keep their families intact.


BS - Me, 41 SAHM back in grad school
WS - Husband, 43 SA dx in March 2013
T-20, M-18 college sweethearts
Multiple DDays since 1999 - OW's all the way back to engagement
Most recent DDay 8-12,false R 1/13
DD-11, DS 13 with ASD

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Virginia
Kierst13
♀ Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it's both that some women are looking for the romantic comedy marriage seen on the big screen. The other side of the coin and I read this a lot on relationship forums and hear about it a lot in real life. A lot of marriages consist of two full-time working parents and in many cases the women are also doing the lion's share of the household duties.

The most common complaint I hear from my friends is not money related, sex related or even *I wish he would be more affectionate", it's that they want HELP. They want physical and practical help with every day life.

The chores, finances, child rearing, errands, child taxi services, cooking, cleaning.

Some men think it's their right to sit and veg-out in front of the TV after a long hard day, and in the mean time the women are cooking, cleaning and bathing kids.

A lot of women don't want the movie-marriage, but they also don't want to be the workhorse of the family.

It's about communicating and compromise.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
courageous
♀ Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your can twist data to make it fit anything you want. I believe men have a even bigger misconception of marriage. My exwh thought that once we got married sex would INCREASE and we would have it every day. Forget the fact that I was working 60 hours a week supporting his lazy ass and paying for his education. He didn't cook, clean, or even mow the yard. I never knew I married a child. Guys sometime think that we like to be treated like servants or their slaves.... News flash not everyone enjoys being married to someone lazy, playing video games all day, and basically acting like a bachelor with a wedding ring on.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
SeanFLA
♂ Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I really don't see it as any different than men like George Clooney opting to remain bachelors. Relationships are a lot of work. If your life is otherwise fantastic it is going to take a special sort of someone (the kind who will put in equal effort) to make it worth your while"

I think that's a good point and I like to think I'm a lot wiser now for doing my own personal homework and making an effort to understand today's world a bit better. Rather than make another mistake someday. I don't see anything skewed about that. I know for a fact I will never entangle my finances up with another person, ever again....BTDT.

And you might be looking at the new George Clooney....although I'm better looking!

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 1:39 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
inconnu
♀ Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I also read is that 90% of all divorces are filed by women. That's a HUGE number to me

Not to jump all over you, because I really do get why you posted and why this bothers you

but really, ex walked out on me and our kids for OW. Seriously, he went to work one morning and never came home again. WTF was I supposed to do? Wait for him to file for divorce? It's not that I wanted to be divorced. It's that I no longer wanted to be married to the low-life, chickenshit kind of man who would treat his wife and children that way.

That's why so many women file for divorce. Not because women are so unhappy in their marriages that they want to be divorced. But because they married men who are assholes, fucktards, and chickenshit cowards.

What you men on SI don't seem to get is that you men on SI are not typical of the husbands most of us women on SI had/have. Fortunately for you, you're a much better man, and human, than what most of us married. You must have read a lot of the stories here. Honestly, would you want to stay married to the type of spouses we describe, or would you file for divorce, eventually?


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12164 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
Weatherly
♀ Member
Member # 18222
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so easy to skew a statistic like that without getting facts. How many husbands cheated, how many women cheated, how many had abusive husbands, how many escaped a spouse with a drug and alcohol addition.....the list goes on

Exactly.

Yeah, I filed for divorce. 3 or 4 years after X moved out to play house with flavor of the week. Seems fair to me.

I think a lot of people do have unrealistic expectations.

My X was upset about our marriage because we fought, and if we were really "soulmates" then we would never fight and always be happy. He wanted rainbows and unicorns for the whole relationship. When those went away, instead of making them come back, he threw up his hands and went "nevermind, this isn't 'real' love." Did his unrealistic expectations make him file for divorce? Nope...he just cheated. My expectations of having a faithful, nonabrasive husband were not being met, so, yeah, I filed.

Isn't there another thread on this page about how men don't leave unless they find someone new? AND, many women on there tell about how, even after their husband found someone new, he still didn't leave until the wife made him (like in my case). So, are wives expecting too much? Or are husbands contributing too little?

If we want to throw useless statistics out, according to the CDC, 17% of men, vs 8% of women will meet the criteria for alcohol dependance at some point in their lives. Is it unrealistic to expect your husband not to be an alcoholic? According to the Domestic Violence Resource Center, women account for 85% of intimate partner violence. 1 in 4 women have experienced domestic violence. Is it unreasonable to expect your husband not to abuse you? 40% of women are the main wage earner in a household. Husbands, on average, do 1/3 of the housework of their wives, and women spend twice as much time on average parenting than their husbands.

So, when we look at all these statistics without taking in to account ANYTHING else, is it really surprising women are filing for divorce at such high levels? Seems reasonable to me that they would be unhappy.

**** I realize, it sounds like I am bashing men, I am not. I think there are a huge number of awesome men out there. My point was to show that, just a few numbers don't show much of anything. And, i'm not saying that all women are awesome and deserve to have perfect relationships. i think there are plenty of crappy women out there who mess up marriages or who have unrealistic expectations.


Me-29,Two boys, 10 and 9

It will all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end

Happily remarried to a wonderful man (Aussie). I think I found the right guy and the right finger this time.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Indiana
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Lord, Inconnu, I love what you wrote!

I know people think my STBX is one of the worst of the worst. And he is! But he's not alone. Heck, just a few doors down in my own neighborhood I found out that my neighbor is divorcing, guess what, a narcissist. Many of his behaviors are just like my STBX's. The first woman at my church who I confessed this nightmare to is divorced from a man just like my STBX. Our church secretary is divorced from a bastard just like my STBX.

Why the hell should a woman stay, or want to stay, in a marriage to a man like this? Is it wrong for a woman to wonder what life might be like if she's not beat down every day? Is it wrong for a mother to want her children to grow up in a home where they aren't screamed at every day & made to cry by their father? Is it wrong for a woman who's husband repeatedly insults her and mocks her to get fed up?

Geez Us!!!

ETA: Is it right for a woman to remain in a marriage to a husband who cheats on her? Are we seriously entertaining the notion that a woman's place is in the home, men will be men, and we women need to just be grateful for whatever crumbs get thrown our way?

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 1:48 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9814 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OR it means that women tend to take action and confront when something is not right instead of avoiding it. I'm pretty sure they are thinking "I do not want to be married to THIS for the next 30 years." And truthfully, if there is any money involved, usually women are better off divorced (depending on how long they have been married).


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
SeanFLA
♂ Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Inconnu....I wanted to try to work things out and R. I admit it. I did so because we had a child, a home and worked for everything we owned by ourselves. Besides it was how I was raised. My parents were married for 50 years, her's 45 years now. We didn't come from broken homes and I couldn't believe what was happening. I was hoping she realized what a mistake she made and would be remorseful. Maybe even have a better marriage after all was said and done. I knew it would be extremely hard and painful work on both our ends. I was prepared to do the hard work....she wasn't. But you're right, there was no saying what I would have felt after some time when the initial shock, fear and drama lessened. That's hard to say and I never got the chance to make that decision because she filed and had zero remorse. I'm sure this skews my thinking about this topic and possibly some conclusions. But it's what my personal experience is and what I have to judge much of the rest of my life on regarding relationships. We all suffer from our own wounds here. Personally I don't think it's unhealthy at all not to want to be married ever again.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally I don't think it's unhealthy at all not to want to be married ever again.

I don't think it's unhealthy not to want to be married again, either. I feel the same way.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9814 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
tryingagain74
♀ Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's funny... my situation was the complete opposite of what you mention. I think that I always looked for the good in my then-husband. After I told my friends and family about the A, they all confessed that they had no idea what I saw in him. They apparently hadn't liked him for years, but they kept it to themselves because I loved him, and he was the father of my children, whom they love.

I wouldn't say that things were a bed of roses before DDay. If XWH had asked me to go to counseling, I would have done so. Life had gotten busy, and some days we were like ships passing in the night. Perhaps learning how to reconnect with the help of a MC would have been just what we needed. I will never know.

I took my marriage very seriously; of course, my XWH is the one who cheated. But I never held him up to some Hollywood, overinflated standard. I accepted him for who he was-- mood swings, farts, and all.

Anyway, there are women out there who don't think that their husband should be Atticus Finch as played by Gregory Peck. We don't expect perfection. However, maybe part of my problem was that my standards were TOO low. I worry about marrying again because I'll pick another piece of low-hanging fruit who won't treat me well, though my family has promised to be completely honest with me this time around and tell me exactly what they think of him in case I'm acting blinded by love!


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3620 | Registered: Oct 2011
Thefly559
♂ Member
Member # 40268
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Sean. I remember you from my original post. We have a very similar story , my stbxww did the same as yours . The pain for me will never go away ever. The no remorse thing is unbelievable amount of pain. So I feel you and I want to agree with you totally. I just have a problem with generalizing because I have a lot of guy friends who are assholes. They treat their wives like shit ! Really. They cheat ,they lie ,they belittle ,they say mean insulting things. They choose the ball game instead of her! And I never did ANY of that and I am the one getting divorced and they are married still????? Wtf? I think everyone has a story and it is hard to blame any one gender. But I agree to an extent. When I was first with my wife she was the opposite of who she is now. Total! We moved, got a home , started making real money , she started competing with the jones and had all these pretentious woman friends at school , who had a bigger house , who had more money. ??? Me I am a jeans and tshirts kind of guy. I looked at long term. I don't know I wish I had the answer as to why but I agree that for me divorce was never an option ,ever unless she cheated! She could have gained 400 lbs. or lost a body part or whatever but cheating was it for me. Even though she filed and divorced me cold turkey. I understand your frustration over not even having a chance to make it better and It is hard to read stories on here of people in reconcile because we never got that ! Now I would not want it anyway but just to see her in pain as I am would me nice. Or for her to grovel as I did and cry just once!!! But that day will never come and by the way I agree with all you said and I have been in ic for years even before divorce so you are fine in my opinion. I also believe as you said that any woman who is physically abused or cheated on should divorce immediately. But I guess some women on here didn't read that part of your post. Lol. Be good brother. Stay strong. If you are anything like me , you are on a crazy rollercoaster of emotions. All of which are normal and you are entitled to That,And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


"what does not kill you , makes you stronger"

Posts: 676 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc
ajsmom
♀ Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta love statistics. Bend 'em, shape 'em, spin 'em. Eventually they mean something. No wonder I changed my minor in college to avoid taking Prob & Stats. Sheesh. All those numbers are making my hair hurt.

My filing was a preemptive strike as there was a business involved. Turns out, that's all the fuel he needed to ramp up his behaviors, because, after all, we were technically and legally separated. Hes admitted more than once it was what took R off the table for him. Not the numerous OWmen who eventually surfaced or his out of control drinking and gambling or his basic lack of emotional intelligence, or his incredible risk-taking behaviors putting me and our family in jeopardy. Heavens no, it was my filing to divorce him. Which, he claimed at the time, he completely understood the legal reasons behind. Its called blameshifting and marital history rewrite for you newbies.

My guess is that of the 90% of women who file, they, like me, eventually end up being quite happy or even dare I say ecstatic! about their decision. Im thinking 90% of happy women is a boatload of happy women.

I can't imagine not staying in a marriage or relationship in which I wasnt happy (obviously measured on many schedules), and my guess is of those marriages not ending in divorce, the woman hasn't seen a reason to, because EGADS! perhaps just perhaps the other 40% or 60% of folks who stay married are actually happy.

My take is 90% of women are driving the bus when theyre done.

Great for them. Great for me.

AJs MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21068 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
mixedintherut
♀ Member
Member # 40330
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thought on this is that everyone has expectations on what they want out of a relationship. However, if the person that I am dating doesn't fulfill those expectations I am not going to marry them.

So for me, my WH fulfilled my expectations when we got married, throughout our marriage, until he decided he wanted to have an A.

Did we have our own handful of problems? Of course, what marriage doesn't?

However, he made a choice not to communicate with me his feelings, before he took action outside of our relationship. Then I am left with some garbled up rewritten history that is only true to him.

I think the problem lies in the fact that it is so easy to get a divorce, and lots of people lack morals. People would rather sign a paper and pay the money for a divorce then they would to own the truth, go through counseling to find out what is wrong with them. So then they move on to another relationship, bringing the same problems along, and rinse and repeat.

I wonder what the percentage rate of second divorces are for general people, verses those of the marriages that started out as an affair.


DD 1: PA 12/4/09 He spent 2.5 years with OW1
R: 8/31/2012
DD 2: EA 8/16/13
BS: 26
WH: 25
1 young daughter.
Terribly disgusted. He refuses to give up his "friend". Headed towards D.

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: kentucky
Too_Trusting
♀ Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you want to generalize, how about this:

Could the number of WOMEN filing for divorce be in direct correlation to their cheating spouses???

That was 100% why my marriage ended in divorce. Period.

[This message edited by Too_Trusting at 2:49 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)]


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2481 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
cayc
♀ Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sean, I wish you would just own the "I don''t want to get married again" feeling instead of looking for justification for it. Imho, looking for justification makes you look negative-minded, and has the propensity to turn you into a fulminating conspiracy theorist ready to trot out your rant against M at the slightest provocation.

Instead, given what you''ve gone through, and that you have a young son, and it''s patently obvious why re-marrying anytime soon would be abhorrant to you. Who needs to justify that? Anyone (any woman you''re dating) who can''t see that isn''t worth your time. Any woman you''re dating who seeks to change your mind is immature & you know this because she still lives in the adolescent dream world of where you can "change" your partner into something he''s not. Mature women (regardless of age) don''t do that shit.

Per your actual question and anecdotally, I was miserable in my M long long long before I knew about the philandering. But it never once crossed my mind to D until I learned about the cheating. Before that, I saw my unhappiness as something to work through with him. After learning that my xWH thought nothing of risking my life? Yeah, sure, you try and murder me and damn straight I''ll file first.

[This message edited by cayc at 3:00 PM, September 17th, 2013 (Tuesday)]


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3119 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
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