The problem is, that during the A the AP it be known that she had had a crush on him for years, and that he was an active part of her fantasy life. So much so that she did borderline-stalkery things that I don’t want to go into. But, a part of their “courtship” was her disclosing the dozens (!) of things she had noticed/loved/ thought about him over the years. Dozens of things.
If I am being generous, I can say that I don’t think she actually plotted to take my husband away. It is conceivable that much of this was constructed later to fuel the fire of the affair. (Right?) The irony is, she knew us well enough to know that we had a good relationship, and that the likelihood of him leaving was nearly nil.
I feel like she lived in a fantasy world, a very dangerous one, but that she thought it was safe. I think that might be why she “picked” him. It just happened that he and we were in a very bad spot when the A got kicked off, and their familiarity with each other became toxic.
But how do I process this? Obviously I am furious at her, and in a way her choosing to facilitate a friendship with us (and over time, find more and more ways to be near my husband, do things with him where I wasn’t there, etc. be) seems even worse than what my husband did. I honestly don’t know how much of it was calculated, or how much of it was subconsciously motivated. I can see her on a continuum ranging from living in a fantasy world to being delusional to being downright predatory. How do I come to some sort of peace about this? How can I frame it so it is less painful, or matters less, as I will never really know the truth.
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months
In MC & Reconciling
Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time. ; )
I honestly don’t know how much of it was calculated, or how much of it was subconsciously motivated
And you probably never will. But you do know that they both made conscious choices to be together. They chose to cheat with one another over 2.5 months.
I understand your anger at the OW but she is really a non issue at this point if you want to truly R with your husband.
You can't undo the past and you will never be able to understand the mindset of these two people that chose to cheat and cause such pain to you and your family.
It is like trying to understand why a terrorist would choose to blow themselves up.
How do I come to some sort of peace about this?
Realize that she is sick and twisted. They were living in a fantasy world where nothing was based on truth or honesty. They were/are broken. They fed each other lies and because they were both weak, they gobbled them up. Nothing was based on honesty and truth.
Going forward work with your husband to build your future marriage on honesty and truth.
You own 0% of the affair but you do need to help put the time, energy, and honesty in building a stronger marriage going forward.
If you DDay was around your registration day, it is still very raw (as it should be)...your emotions and feelings will vacillate. Go with them, feel what you need to feel and try and focus on today.
Good luck. Hugs
[This message edited by 1Faith at 1:11 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
Part of this is obviously compounded b/c we were friends, but I hear what you are saying. It is perspective that I need. It is just tricky because fWH is 'plumbing the depths' of why, and I can't help but think about her as well.
OW/xBFF and I were childhood friends, since we were 2. Our parents were best friends. She was at the birth of all my children, and one has her middle name.
It has been 3 years and 3 months since dday for me. I am not at total peace with her, but most days she is a non-entity in my life. I don't know why either, but her side is so hard to even consider forgiveness. I feel like her betrayal against me was 10X worse than my H's.
And funny, our marriage was in a decent place too and she knew it. So, she couldn't have really thought he would leave, I don't know, maybe they are just that crazy.
I don't think she set out to do it either, but like you said, there were years of attributes she loved about him that she disclosed prior to the affair happening. She said she had wished they met first so she could be with her soul mate.
My MC said it is jealousy that fueled the ability to betray me in such a way. She didn't like seeing what I had, and felt she deserved it.
The last thing you said is how can you make it less painful, or for it to matter less... Both of those things will happen, I promise. But it takes time. Stay NC with her. Don't engage her. Try to focus on you and your H.
Are you guys in MC/IC?
[This message edited by bionicgal at 2:30 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
I want you to run with your gut on this one. I should have too so long ago. The AP in our case had a horribly toxic, nasty, disgusting marriage life and family life and her H was about to start Ding her. She had a HUGE part in this whole thing, more then 50% of it and I would think after gathering all of my evidence closer to 80% of the blame lay in her court. She was manipulative, daring, overtly sexual towards my hubby and knew exactly what to do and say.looking back over the past 5 years my husband is horrified he had no idea how manipulative she was, how she strung him along. I find it quite sad actually.
Yes our WS have 100% blame for allowing themselves to get into this situation but lets be honest, not every WS is looking or really wanting to cheat when this first starts out. In our case the OW tried overt sexual acts which didn't work. Then she switched to friendship, which ultimately did work over a period of friends first. She knew EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS DOING at all times! At one point my H even asked her how SHE CHOSE HIM??? For my WS to feel that way says a huge amount.
I personally wouldn't allow this lady back into your world.
Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!
I am hoping there is a day where she can just be beside the point, and I have moments of that.
Part of this is obviously compounded b/c we were friends
IMHO, she was never your friend - she pretended to be to be closer to your H. That was the sitch in my case and I know how you feel.
It sickens me to think that all the while the four of us were socializing, my H and OW were conspiring for their next sexual adventure. I think that the point of the couples get-togethers was to somehow make their relationship seem more wholesome, less dirty. Of course, the fact that they deceived her BH and me by pretending to be all palsy-walsy makes the whole thing even more despicable than it already is.
D-Day: August 14, 2012
9 year LTA with former co-worker and family "friend"/7 years EA+PA, 2 more years EA
In the Not Just Friends book it says something like "the older male thinks he is pursuing the young female, but doesn't realize that he is the one being pursued and is the prize"...I felt like it stated what I was feeling all along.
Now is he innocent..HELL NO! He CHOOSE to do this and he ACTED on it. He is 50% accountable and he had a marriage and a family to think about. He faces my wrath everyday, she does not, so I feel she gets off easy for flauting her womenly stuff.
Bionic - I probably didn't help at all, but I get what you are feeling. I think the OS's motivation was the same as WH, which was "looking for a connection", "needing to feel wanted and sexy", and "I'm entitled to have some fun". I am trying to listen to the veterans and not give her any "head" space, but it is hard.
[This message edited by ILINIA at 5:09 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
WH has said that he "initiated" the relationship BUT when I ask about their history and read the logs, I feel that she laid the groundwork and groomed him.
Ilinia, I think this was the case with my WH and the OW. He told me that he initiated the first kiss, then the sex--and he did: he pulled into a motel on his way home one Saturday and called her to come meet him.
BUT...she had been grooming him. They had been having lunch together every day for months (probably this was an EA at that point), getting closer and closer. One day, OW slapped a magazine on soon-to-be-WH's desk with the cover story "Dual Income, No Sex" and said, "That's my life." So she had not only become close to him through their lunch dates, flattering him and stroking his ego, but also let him know that she was sexually frustrated. And probably available.
Bingo. Now here's something that will make you laugh: In a recent conversation, I told FWH that the magazine incident was a clear invitation to have sex with her. He looked shocked! Shocked, I tell you!! No, she was just sharing something between friends! (But--why else do you tell your boss about your sex life, or lack thereof? He is so dumb sometimes.)
The e-mails make it clear that OW was furious once they stopped the sex part of their A. She kept telling him she wasn't getting enough from him, she needed more, she wanted the old days back. I'm not sure why he didn't cave in, except that he admitted feeling guilty by that time about what they had been doing.
So yes, he initiated the A. He is 100% responsible for that. But she was setting him up, of that I'm sure.
I struggle with whether it was intentional manipulation, or more subtle. She had a whole fantasy life set up around him for years. . . would tell him bits of it during the A through email. Some things are obviously true, certain events where he did some wonderful/admirable/sexy thing, and some perhaps fabricated to enhance the story line ("see. . .I've always loved you. . ").
But I resist seeing her as the "evil other," too. I have always sought to understand people, even people who do bad things. Most of us don't do them to be bad. . .we are just broken. But I don't think I'll ever get there with her and it is challenging the way I view the world.
2Married - it is kind of the opposite. H is very reluctant to think that he was manipulated in any way. He sees her as sort of an innocent victim of a fantasy life gone awry, and I can't see it quite that benignly. Certainly she doesn't have both oars in the water.
I agree with him. Sure, she can put out the bait over and over, if he takes it, he let himself be led. So he allowed it because he wanted to. It felt good.
You're pretty early on since DDAY. I understand your reasoning and trying to put things in perspective and also to dissect bit by bit. You do well, because we NEED to understand. I did the same thing. At some point he was the devil and at other times she was. In the end, they were both GUILTY. No one put a gun on anyone's head. No one forced anyone to do anything. My FWW told him she had a crush and it was all GO from there. He did not hesitate, he did not question. They were both in LALA land.
[This message edited by 2married2quit at 3:25 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!
You get my drift.
[This message edited by Simple at 2:30 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.
WH had a relationship with a coworker. She was older than us and wanted to offer "support" while we were expecting our first child. She knew WH was nervous and scared. I was unavailable sexually in my pregnancy due to a high risk pregnancy.
She "groomed" him so to speak.
She was in a bad relationship, lonely, and had experience since she was not only a mother but a grandmother.
My stupid WH seen this as an escape. Someone was making him feel good at a time in need...
Ugh. I have such horrible feelings towards this OW. How could she do this?!?! Having such bad experiences in her life and in the lives of her children.
What a bunch of winners, huh?
Fool me once - Shame on you. Fool me twice - pack your shit and get out.