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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Yawning and falling asleep during heartfelt discussions
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband and I are mad matters. We have been married for 15 years.

It has come to light that 6 years ago, during a very rough patch in our marriage, that we both had a ONS. He solicited a prostitute, while I met someone at work. It is a very long and sad story :(

I am the talker in the marriage, and he is conflict avoidant and emotionally unavailable.

I talk a lot about both of the affairs, because that is what I need to do to process things. He is a rug sweeper.

He says that he is remorseful and will do anything that he needs to do to change, yet, in the past 2 weeks the book reading has virtually stopped, he constantly yawns and almost falls asleep whenever I talk to him about our relationships or the Infidelities. He never offers any voluntary opinions and NEVER ever has I initiated a single conversation about our relationship or the infidelities.

I feel like I am the only one fighting for the marriage at times. He says that I already know everything about what happened in his ONS with the escort, and thinks I shouldn't be cross examining him anymore.

He does not display much emotion surrounding the entire issue...and oddly, does not seem to be very sad or angry about my affair which I find to be odd. It is almost like he supresses his feelings entirely, or, maybe he doesn't have any? Or maybe he never truly loved me, and so doesn't care about what I did.

Is a reconciliation with this type of person even possible? It takes a lot of work and self-reflection to get through something like this....we are both broken people to have resorted to what we both did, however, paying for sex displays an extreme level of brokenness and it scares me as I saw zero indications that he was either upset or that he had resorted to this..whereas he says I read like a book and he always wondered if I had done anything during that rough patch.

If he cannot get in touch with his emotions, how can I feel safe that we will actually get through this? We both have intimacy issues....but I fear that he may not be able to overcome his :(

Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW, the affairs came to light 2 months ago....on Father's Day, which was devestating.


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanted to add:

I do talk about both the affairs and our relationship on a daily basis. I have been diagnosed with PTSD over this. I have mind movies every day and feel like this is like a death, both of who he was and what our marriage was and who I was. I do tend to whirlwind while talking...going in circles and repeating things.

Sometimes my bantering can go on for an hour even....


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When do you initiate these discussions that he is yawning and falling asleep?

If it's towards the end of the evening or even during the evening and it goes on for some time it could just be exhaustion or reflex. If it's right before and during lunch then that's just obnoxious.

For awhile my wife would initiate discussions about things she felt were important at times when I was unable to remain focused for long. Whether it was intentional or just not thinking on her part, I often fell asleep or my attention wandered after too long and I simply couldn't stay in the conversation.

Have you asked him straight what he feels, and explained you feel he does not display those emotions? Operating on internal dialogues can be massively devastating, and assuming both of you will heal the same way places unrealistic expectations on each other.

As for asking him questions, you should be able to ask him whatever you need to when you need to, provided a reasonable understanding that shaking someone awake at 3 AM may not elicit the most patient of responses, kind of thing.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


..
I do tend to whirlwind while talking...going in circles and repeating things.

Sometimes my bantering can go on for an hour even....

..i think you may have the answer there..

..maybe he's just on over-load from hearing you for 'an hour'..

..sorry, but my sister can talk, on and on.. and i start to yawn and yawn..

..especially when she 'goes around in circles' !!

..healing prayers sent to you both..

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4120 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I am just desperately trying to evoke some level of emotion from him....it is very scary to not know what your spouse is thinking/feeling all of the time. Perhaps I am talking too much and too late, often.

I just don't know how to stop wanting to talk it all through....this has been the most stressful thing I have ever had to endure :(


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I am just desperately trying to evoke some level of emotion from him....it is very scary to not know what your spouse is thinking/feeling all of the time. Perhaps I am talking too much and too late, often.

I just don't know how to stop wanting to talk it all through....this has been the most stressful thing I have ever had to endure :(


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband used to do this a lot. ANd it made me FUIROUS!!!

Ten I realized he was just shutting down. Overwhelmed, too much information, too much shame, too much everything.

I started writing down things that I wanted to talk about, putting a time limit on it, then shelving the rest for later. I also asked him to tell me when he was getting overwhelmed so we could take it up later.

I ask that he look at me when we are talking, not nod off, etc. Sometimes it helps to talk while taking a walk.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Others have addressed the yawning and falling asleep.

He says that he is remorseful and will do anything that he needs to do to change, yet, in the past 2 weeks the book reading has virtually stopped, h..... He never offers any voluntary opinions and NEVER ever has I initiated a single conversation about our relationship or the infidelities.
This got my attention, since it is my thorn in the side. I'm beginning to think he is incapable of giving me what I need in the area of openness and communication, especially on "prickly" topics.

I've read of WS'es who can change, but it seems the vast majority cannot overcome their emotional/communication handicap. If you can't live with silence and avoidance for the rest of your life, you may have to make other plans. That's what I'm finally considering.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you asked him straight what he feels, and explained you feel he does not display those emotions? Operating on internal dialogues can be massively devastating, and assuming both of you will heal the same way places unrealistic expectations on each other.
.......................

Yes, I have asked him what he feels. His responses are always very simple..."I am remorseful, I do love you, I do want to change how I relate to you and learn how to communicate better"

He does take the time to answer any questions I have as best he can....I just feel frustrated that I always have to initiate every single conversation.

If I didn't bring the issues up, they would be totally rug swept and never discussed.


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurtbuthopeful:

I TOTALLY understand what you a saying!!! Can he even change?? This is a question I ask myself daily...actually multiple times a day.

Whenever we discuss things he does not like to talk about he just shuts down. So, that means whenever we discuss his enmeshment issues with his mom, or the prostitute, and I start to get emotional, he walks away, or goes silent.

I feel so sad about this....I have been going through this cycle with him, the emotionally avoidant routine, for so long now. We are such polar opposites in terms of how we communicate.

Before the affairs came to light, I stuck by him and dealt with it as best I could because he had many other great qualities...but now that this ugliness has surfaced, with regards to what we both did to each other, I feel that our foundation might not be, nor might never be, strong enough to endure the damage that has been done :(

[This message edited by datura222 at 10:59 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I am just desperately trying to evoke some level of emotion from him....it is very scary to not know what your spouse is thinking/feeling all of the time.

I hear that. It can be scary and a red flag as well - if it is new.

Has he always been someone to express his emotions openly, or has he always been reserved with them? It's not unreasonable to want what you are wanting, but if he is not the kind of man who is open with his emotions normally then it may just be something that will take a long time to get to - provided he is willing to do so.

You may want to try MC, a place with a 3rd party to mediate can help keep things calm and on track. I needed a lot of details myself and like another poster suggested, our MC at the time told me to write my questions down. She was taken aback at the stack of 30 some pages of questions, but my wife did answer them all in time and in writing for me. That can also be a help for those questions that keep going around and around that were already answered.

Good luck. Try to get some rest and take care of yourself. Everything looks worse when you're exhausted and hungry.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still going:

He has always been emotionally reserved. I have always bent he one to try and get to the bottom of issues.

His mother was emotionally stunted, and his father was as well. He is an only child. He has extreme mother-son enmeshment issues and might be a mild sex addict....he has serious intimacy issues, hence the prostitute, and some porn issues. No one has ever modeled how to express emotions to him while he grew up. You would think I would have rubbed off on him in the 20 years we have been together...maybe I have a bit, but not enough.


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Before the affairs came to light, I stuck by him and dealt with it as best I could because he had many other great qualities...but now that this ugliness has surfaced, with regards to what we both did to each other, I feel that our foundation might not be, nor might never be, strong enough to endure the damage that has been done :(
Exactly. You are processing things pretty clearly. The hard part is deciding whether there is hope enough to keep trying, or to see the writing on the wall and throw in the towel. If it weren't for our daughters who still live at home, and need an intact family to keep homeschooling, I'd be gone yesterday.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
krazy8516
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Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

datura:

I just wanted to say I know exactly how you are feeling!

I am the talker in the marriage, and he is conflict avoidant and emotionally unavailable.

He never offers any voluntary opinions and NEVER ever has I initiated a single conversation about our relationship or the infidelities.

You described my WH to a T(minus the dozing off) - he more ignores me. Finds something else to do or focus on while I'm talking. I recently discovered he is conflict avoidant - I hadn't noticed this before.

It is very scary to think that this is what we're in for for the rest of our lives. How do we work through this with someone who refuses to help us? We are just both so different from our H's, and since it is in their nature to avoid, and in our nature to communicate, we of course find ourselves giving way more to the M then them. They want it all to go away, and can't understand why were aren't the same way.

Is a reconciliation with this type of person even possible? It takes a lot of work and self-reflection to get through something like this....

This is the million dollar question. It does take a ton of work, and both spouses have to be willing and able to put in the effort.

Here's what I think... d-day is still recent (more for me than you), and from what I have read, it is still too soon to know anything for sure. Right now I am literally playing the "wait and see" game. It sucks, because in the meantime I am questioning everything. But I'm going to keep talking, keep communicating and keep working on this marriage the best way I know how. I'm not ready to give up just yet.

I figure, either things will get better, and this will all be worth it, or his behavior will push me past the point of no return. To where I'm not questioning anything anymore... I'll just know I'm done. It makes me sad thinking about it now, but I have a feeling if/when that day comes, I won't feel anything but relief.

[This message edited by krazy8516 at 11:19 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think MC may really be the best place for you to talk to him then. If he has always been this way and plain doesn't know how, all that's going to happen is you are both going to be frustrated and frightened by each other. It's just being stuck in a loop that everyone is familiar with and afraid to break out of, or just doesn't know how to.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have been in IC for the past month, but will be starting MC in 2 weeks with a CSAT. I am hoping we can both overcome our intimacy issues. I do love truly love him, and i very much want us to see what our marriage could be like if we could learn to communicate better with each other :(


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is hard but definitely possible. Good luck!


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You guys are mad hatters. I am curious as to why you are focusing so much of your energy onto his FOO issues and not working on your own issues that led to your affair? Shouldn't you be working on yourself and let him fix himself?

Madhatter situations are tricky enough without our partners trying to figure out why we are the way we are. Believe me I know, me and my H are madhatters.

My suggestion would be to set aside specific amount of time that you will talk about this with him, maybe write down the questions you want to ask so you can stay on task with what you want to talk about and he doesn't feel overwhelmed.

I know you want him to stay engaged with you, so help that to happen. There is also a thread in wayward right now about EU people that might help you to understand a little bit more about who your H is.

I am confused as to why his sexual behavior was deemed that much more risky, unless you knew everyone your AP slept with, there is no way you could know how much risk you were putting yourself at by sleeping with someone else.

I see a lot of you holding your affair in a better light than what your H did. In madhatter situations, that just doesn't work.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4754 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
datura222
♀ New Member
Member # 39766
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

timed girl:

Believe me, every week during IC I feel as if I have been through a war. I am emotionally spent after facing some dark shit about myself. I know why I was seeking external validation outside of my marriage, and what I need to work on to feel whole within myself first and foremost regardless of how or how not people in my life validate me from now on. I felt lonely for a large part of my marriage, and often questioned his love for me due to him always choosing his mothers emotional wellbeing and needs over the wellbeing of our marriage, his lack of verbal communication and his constant shutting down whenever I tried to discuss any issues pertaining to the marriage.

I am hyperfocusing on him I suppose...I just don't feel safe with him because his porn usage continued right up until D-day signaling that his sex addiction was still ongoing, and the fact that my son found pictures of prostitutes downloaded in May 2012 on the ipad that my husband had looked at while away on business in a hotel room alone.

The need for polygraphs is because he engaged in an illegal activity, is most likely a sex addict (he is definitely a porn addict which hits a little too close to home for me with the whole prostitute thing), and had sex with a prostitute, of whom has had an excessive amount of sexual partners and thus could have potentially exposed him to numerous std's even despite using a condom. I do not feel safe with him at all....he went out on a lunch hour and did this...I will never know if he ever does it again. I will not remain in this marriage without an annual polygraph.

My infidelity is just as damaging as his was, but the addiction surrounding his issues is a very scary thing to deal with.

[This message edited by datura222 at 3:00 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


In R
Dday: Father's Day 2013
We are madhatters.
Husband took a polygraph due to the risky nature of his infidelity.
Polygraphs: 1 fail, disclosure, passed 2

Posts: 44 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Bay Area CA
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, you are hyperfocusing on his issues.

As long as that is happening, it allows you to deflect the attention off of your own. Even when talking about your own, it revolves around him, and what he did wrong to cause you to feel those things.

Your infidelity is yours. And he has to deal with what you did as well. Men don't often show it the same way we do. So just because he doesn't have the need to discuss this ten ways from Sunday, don't think that this isn't present for him.

The crap think about dealing with a madhatter situation is which side of the fence to sit on, the BS side or the WS side. I can tell you that I did all of my learning on the WS side. I figured out my shit as a wayward, not a betrayed.

Get focused internally, instead of externally, it will calm your mind down.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4754 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
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