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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Does the guilt outweigh the pleasure?
Flatlined123
♀ Member
Member # 35862
Question  Posted: 4:39 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering this today. Does the remorse, shame, guilt and embarrassment that waywards feel outweigh the pleasures they got from the affair?

I've asked H about this and his answer is that there was nothing good about the affair. Ok, I'll never understand that statement. Though I've never been addicted to anything either.

I think the farther out H gets, the more he just shakes his head and says "WTF was I thinking?"


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 9-09, but I didn't feelTRUE R started until 12-09 when the fog really lifted due to a medical condition with me.
Every day gets a little better.

Posts: 584 | Registered: Jun 2012
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 5:13 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H also says there was nothing good and can't even understand who he was at the time.

Although he does admit that in the early days the good outweighed the bad in terms of the actual A (it was "different", she hadn't revealed her crazy, etc). Later it became a compulsion, a dirty habit. However, he was able to compartmentalize even that aspect and hide it even from himself.

Clearly in retrospect the bad outweighed the good. But he says that even during he regretted ever starting up but lacked the skills to stop without it blowing up.

At the time, however, I assume the "pleasure" seemed worth it. It seems inconceivable that someone would risk everything they hold dear for a meaningless whim if there wasn't SOMETHING they were getting from it.

No wonder they shake their heads now!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1653 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the guilt and the pleasure are compartmentalized away from each other. One does not weigh against the other. As they get further out of the fog the two start coming together and the WTF realizations start happening.


My fWS lost 20lbs during the A, wasting away to nothing (barely 100lbs). She also started cutting herself during the A. Part of her hated herself for what she was doing. The other part couldn't stop getting the rush. She was not able to logically compare one part to the other.

Fortunate or not, I can understand. I was addicted to drugs for years. My last year of using I would pray to be able to stop. "Please, help me to not get high tomorrow. I will do anything!!!". And the first thing I would do in the morning is get high crying the whole time.

I think that we could all find something that our mind talked us doing that we really didn't want to do. Whether it is buying that pair of shoes or eating half a package of Oreos.

I am not trying to minimize A by any means. It is the most hurtful and painful thing I have ever experienced. Just because I understand the thought process (or lack of), doesn't make it easier.

Compartmentalization, minimization, rationalization, justification, denial are powerful forces in our heads.

Self honesty and open honest communication is the antidote.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better. Reconciled from the A's but still working hard for a better tomorrow.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012
heforgotme
♀ Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does the remorse, shame, guilt and embarrassment that waywards feel outweigh the pleasures they got from the affair?

From what WH has said it does. The problem is that aside from a teensy bit of guilt, he didn't feel any of those feelings until after DDay.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
2married2quit
♂ Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course it's pleasurable. Other wise they wouldn't do it. My FWW referred to the A as "fun" for the longest time afterwards as she was still in the fog and said that I was "over reacting" because it was "nothing".

1yr later and if you ask her now, she'll tell you...I had fun because my head was lost. She refers to it now as one BIG BAD CHOICE! Regrets it for all the damage it did, the embarrassment, the the pain, the hurt, the guilt, the shame and how she feels like it's a big black cloud over her head that she'll never be able to shake off. The friendships that are broken, the relationship with me as it is damaged. The embarrassment with the kids and a OBS that hates her to death. Just knowing someone hates you dearly for nearly destroying her home is enough pain to erase the pleasure of an orgasm, a kiss, or an emotion.
If sin wasn't fun, no one would be doing it.

Gotta give it to Chicho on this one. Well said:

Compartmentalization, minimization, rationalization, justification, denial are powerful forces in our heads.

Self honesty and open honest communication is the antidote.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1038 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
Bikingguy
♂ Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uh, no! How else could it go on for 15 years

WW admitting to only feeling of not wanting to get caught.

Isn't is wonderful realizing just how broken and damaged a WS can be, right under our nose


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
TxsT
♀ Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this post and a similar one in Wayward were a gift to me for going through my last "why" talk with my RH last night. We revisited this question because I am on the verge of accepting this whole damn thing and finally moving completely into R. As a Libra, balance in my life is an essential part of my world. Having to discover and recover from my RH actions is as from from balance as you can get! For me it was very necessary that I understand the why. I know most of it and most revolved around what was missing from our marriage. The other part was revealed for the first time in this discussion. H admitted that the initial EA was the first time ever in his life that he had had feelings for another person besides me. I was a bit taken back by this because I have been able to see EA's around me for as long as I can remember. I almost stepped into a few myself before realizing and having to physically remove myself from their world. This revaluation shocked the hell out of my H. He calls it being naive....I call it a gift that he lived his life so long and did not have to see how ugly the real world could really be.

So, as we move into the week that houses our 1year anniversary of DDay as well as our 25 th anniversary of marriage I can honestly say I have put the why question to bed. These two posts mirror his comments exactly, the ones he has been saying over and over again throughout the last year. I am now ready to accept these explanations and look forward 100%.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
SheHatesMe
♂ New Member
Member # 40425
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a WS/WBF I would like to comment if I may.

Does the remorse, shame, guilt and embarrassment that waywards feel outweigh the pleasures

Absolutely!! Many responses on this thread alone repeat the feelings that we WS feel. I am constantly shaking my head and wondering how I could have been so stupid. How I could have been so blind and forget all my morals?

Compartmentalization, minimization, rationalization, justification, denial are powerful forces in our heads

Chico hit the nail on the head. The worst thing I did was compartmentalize feelings and lock them away in a box allowing me to separate from reality.

My wonderful BGF is wondering the "whys". I am finding through IC that I seek the approval of others and fear the "perceived" reaction that I may get from someone's disapproval. This comes from a very low self-worth that I have to work very hard to rebuild. I am not sure if it's the same for other WS but for me the self-loathing I have now for doing such a horrible act to the one person that loved me more than anyone could ever love me definitely makes the remorse, shame, and embarrassment far outweigh what ever pleasure I thought I was experiencing at the time of my As.


WBF slowly seeing progress

Posts: 44 | Registered: Aug 2013
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The guilt far outweighs any pleasure. I wouldn't term the A as pleasure either. Seems far fetched that we would destroy so much for nothing? Well I can only speak for myself. My self esteem and self respect were so low that I was looking for validation everywhere except from within. I got nothing from external validations because they were meaningless but I was to far down the rabbit hole to see any of that. I felt guilt as I committed the act, was sick to my stomach during and after and could not understand why I was destroying all that I loved. The answer to it now a year later is that I was trying to destroy myself and I didn't love myself all that much. It might sound callous but the destruction on my SO and my relationship were casualties of my self destruction. I am so truly sorry for all of it.

[This message edited by Unagie at 9:38 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2379 | Registered: Oct 2012
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know my WS had a lot of guilt, but the addictive part of his brain wouldn't let him stop. Even when one affair ended, he would soon start seeking another one.

Did he have fun? I don't know, I'd have to ask. Based on other questions I've asked, I'd say no. He didn't have "relationships" with them. He had sex with them. So for him it was always about seeking his next high. Otherwise he had very little to do with them. Except the one he was emotionally attached to, but that would have waned soon enough anyway.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 1993 | Registered: Feb 2012
PamJ
♀ Member
Member # 40475
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This seems to be common. My WH had 3 EAs the 2nd & 3rd with the same OW, 8 months apart.

When he tells me it wasn't that special, she wasn't what he really wanted, he was never going to leave me for her, talking to her on the phone was a let down from the texting/sexting they started out with because she seemed "Like a know-it-all", it makes me wonder if this is said to make me feel better, to minimize what seemed like something more serious, or what happens when the fog lifts and they realize what a fantany it was is and how it could never have been sustained.

Maybe all of the above. It kind of angers me because while he's telling me thins I am thinking, am i supposed to feel better? Is it supposed to help that you were willing to throw it all away for something that was not that great? What does that say about me, us?

[This message edited by PamJ at 3:06 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 50+
Him: WH 60

3 EAs

2 grown sons, 1 grown step-son

Last DDay, March 19, 2013 after a few weeks of TT- trying to have a new marriage after almost 35 years.
No more chances.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2013
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It kind of angers me because while he's telling me thins I am thinking, am i supposed to feel better? Is it supposed to help that you were willing to throw it all away for something that was not that great? What does that say about me, us?

It doesn't say anything about you. It is everything about him though. Why was he willing to lower his standards? Why was he willing to degrade himself?


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
In R
"If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth." -Carl Sagan

Posts: 2250 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Flatlined123
♀ Member
Member # 35862
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We know some of the whys. H was looking for validation, he had kisas, he had no self esteem snd no self respect. He was just hoping that something "different" would make him feel better about himself.

He was only thinking about himself.

I just can't wrap my brain around the thought that he didn't care enough about everyone else in our family to not hurt us. There were so many different ways to get help. All he'd have had to do is ask.


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 9-09, but I didn't feelTRUE R started until 12-09 when the fog really lifted due to a medical condition with me.
Every day gets a little better.

Posts: 584 | Registered: Jun 2012
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does the remorse, shame, guilt and embarrassment that waywards feel outweigh the pleasures they got from the affair?

As a BS, I suspect the answer lies in the context.

When your pants are around your ankles, and the dopamine is flooding your brain, the pleasure is greater.

When you witness your spouse's broken heart on Dday, and the fantasy world crumbles, the guilt and pain is greater.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
Topic Posts: 14

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