Pre-A, he was more passive and afraid of rejection if I wasn't in the mood. His passivity caused me to pull away and not risk sexually. We both became timid over the course of time.
With HB, things changed with me and I thought, "I don't care about him getting his needs met, I am going for it...I have nothing to lose"
Now I find myself concerned about what they did, about how I measure up to that fantasy life they shared, and most importantly about how I can feel special again.
I wonder if it isn't really the WS's responsibility to make the BS feel special again. After all, I wasn't there, and I don't know exactly what they did and how they did it. Doesn't the WS need to find things that are just special to me? Doesn't the WS need to take the risks to do things they have never done before? If so, how would this get communicated?
Last night I was sick and tired of feeling insecure and not special. Has anyone else conquered this yet?
So I am definitely feeling insecure, and definitely not special anymore. If we had such a great sex life, as he currently claims we always did, then WTF?
The only thing keeping me strong (at least right now, in this moment) is knowing that I am SOOOOO much better than him in so many ways. If I want something (sexually or otherwise) with him, I just communicate it outright. I'm trying not to let him determine my self worth anymore.
[This message edited by ccw82 at 9:18 PM, September 2nd (Monday)]
"One is not tempted by that he does not want."
We went through a sexual desert, where we would occasionally have sex, but love making was not exactly what I would call it. And then, pretty much nothing unless I got drunk and pushed the issue.
And then I found out that he was propositioning pretty much everyone to get sex. And that he has actually found someone to live out his fantasy. And that it was pretty horrible for him (and I have pretty much verified it), but he did it, we both went through the STD/HIV tests, and I did not feel pretty. For a very long time.
For a very long time, he did not see me naked. Because no matter what he said, I knew that the Playboy Bunny he boinged for hours with screaming sex, and there was no way that I could compete.
Thing is, that was all a lie. It wasn't special, it wasn't good, and he was so disgusted, that he cleaned up and left immediately.
But you don't know any of that. You are seeing the Amazing Monkey Sex fantasy when likely, it was maybe OK.
He needs to step up his game to make you feel secure, loved, and lusted after. You need to tell him exactly what you want. And he needs to give it to you.
And BTW. I "used" my FWH sexually to get what I needed to get from him to feel better when we HB'ed. And I do not regret one single moment of it. It helped to get us to where we are today.
D-Day, June 10, 2012
This helps me....
One thing that helped me was to deconstruct the sex between them. I wanted to know what they didn't do. I needed to know what he saved for me...what he only did with me. (for example, these things included shower/bathtub sex, massages) After months of carefully crafted questions, (i didn't want too much information/images floating in my head, so i took it slow and was careful about what i asked) i was able to get some answers that helped me. I was able to see that the sex that they had WASNT epic, it wasnt mind blowing, it wasnt erotic. It wasnt better. Despite the fact that they said they loved eachother, the sex they had was was just that...middle of the road sex. All the small, meaningful things that make it special werent there with them.
While this helps, it doesnt solve my problem completely, and i still struggle terribly. But its a start. This is actually the current focus in our MC/IC sessions right now. I wish i had more words of wisdom to offer. Instead i send hugs and strength your way!!
WH now makes it a point to make a distinction between having sex and making love.
This is an exercise that our therapist had my WH do. His homework one time was to document the differences between lovemaking and sex. I'm surprised to say that he put a lot of work into it, and his answers were touching and thorough.
I think it helped him to realize what he wasn't getting when he screwed around that he was getting at home. And it helped me to see that he can recognize and appreciate the difference.
Our therapist and I have my WH working on his timeline right now and I gave him a list of the details that I want. I specifically told him in writing (I prepared a list of written questions) that it would help me to know what he didn't like about any of the encounters he had. That helps me to know it wasn't all super special fantasy. You're thinking it was all super special between them and it probably wasn't. You need to know that. There are ways you can ask questions to give yourself info to make yourself feel better rather than worse.
In answer to you questions about the WS responsibility to make you feel special again, sure, he should do that, imo. But at the same time, you have to let him know your needs. You both need to find things special to you both, imo.
Plain and simple? They didn't have that. Not even close.
Did he enjoy it? Of course. He enjoyed it because it was sex and he was all about him getting off. He enjoyed it because of the secrecy and the risk he was taking, it was his high.
But passion??? Absolutely none.
They had awkward sex on a desk, or on an office chair and sometimes on a couch at one APs home. There were three positions he ever had sex with them in (and at the time he complained about our monotony? ROFL). I know that there were times he went soft. I know there were a lot of times he could not finish through sex and he had to finish himself off. I know they didn't kiss very often because there was no intimate connection between them, it was JUST SEX. He continued to go back because they were EASY. With his LTA he could just unzip his pants and she was down on her knees. He had no respect for her at all.
With us? We have had passion. He has made me cry during sex due to sheer intimacy. When we have sex, we try to please EACH OTHER instead of him just trying to get himself off. He has never gone limp on me. He doesn't finish and then hurry me away because he feels shame and guilt over what he's just done.
I asked for details because it was far worse than what I'd imagined myself. And now I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what we do share sexually is special. What he had with them, meant nothing.
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
So start with yourself, IMHO. Look at the person you want to be and you will become that sexual Goddess we're meant to be . Seriously, we have it in ourselves to feel special about ourselves. We don't need anyone to do that for us. That's the problem some WS had was they are looking too much for validation elsewhere instead of believing in themselves.
Hope that helps.
True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.
For you, what is the difference between sex and making love?
What have you only shared with me (sexually and intimately)?
What does romance mean to you?
I want to feel special...I can't seem to separate sex with her versus the sex with me. In my mind I think...what was it about her and the sex with her that caused him to go back for 3 years? What was she doing that was so special! I also believe that he spares me the details (or minimizes) of their "good to great sex" because he doesn't want to see me hurt.
I have worked on feeling good about myself and I actually feel great. But, when I am with him and having sex, naked and exposed, it is hard to NOT think about them together. He even had sex with her while she was having cancer and had lost all her hair. I asked him, how could you do that and he said it was a "non event". Perhaps I will never get it!
But what helped was this... Putting less importance into sex. And that was hard, because I am a very sexual person. It helped to stop looking for the specialness and validation. I accepted that he's not going to give me any, and that it's his right not to. I don't control his sexuality. I don't get to take pride in it, because it really is nothing to do with anyone but him.
What I do get to take pride in, is myself. So what do I want from sex? Or do I? Do I just want to take care of my own health, never mind him? It takes two, and if he's not there after sharing something so spectacular with someone else - then the reason we don't have it is because HE'S NOT THERE, it takes two, and I can't do it by myself.
It doesn't address the issue itself, but it brings a lot of peace. I'm no longer worrying about things I have no control over. I'm taking care of the things that matter.
The other day, we did something, and I tried something I've never done before with anyone. I told him so afterward. He didn't make any special comment on it, and if I let my mind go the wrong way I could easily obsess that he's experienced it before with other women. But I didn't. I'm still letting it sink in that that one subtle experience was my first time, and how it felt to me and what it meant that I shared it with him. It's about my emotions now. He'll tell me his emotions if or when he feels like it, and I cannot make him otherwise.
And in the end, I think what you will find is that the sex is just part of the package. Sex comes with affairs. It's probably pretty good due to the secrecy and the angst and all the assorted other crap. But it isn't real intimacy. It isn't a real connection. You can't have that with something that is deceitful.
Reading something like The Passionate Marriage could possibly be helpful, since you have some other baggage to address as well.