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User Topic: Emotionally unavailable or just shallow?
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am still frustrated that my H can go forever without making any mention of his LTA. I do bring it up but less and less.

We are both frustrated that we don't have a lot of opportunity to have personal talks as out our household is full and busy, and by the time we go to bed it is late and as I have learned, is not the time to get into what could become an emotional discussion.

However, we do try to get out alone together at least once a week for dinner.

Our conversation is pleasant and enjoyable, but we don't touch on the A subject still unless I bring it up. mThen, he will often change the subject.

I have come to feel that it is either very hard for him to deal with emotions or just that his don't run very deeply.

He says that he "loves me more than I know" and that I "am the most important thing in his life" and all the things that I want to hear, but I don't feel that he wants to (or can) share more of his feelings than these "catch-all" type of statements.

Come to think of it, in the last 19 months, while he has answered all of my questions (if he can remember) he has never asked me once about my thoughts or feelings.

Perhaps he doesn't need to because I just spill it out.

I have only seen an emotional response twice from him. He faked crying early on after dday, and more recently actually did she'd real tears (I think)

He doesn't question my feelings as I am an open book.

He has only offered information to me once regarding his A, by telling me that MOW was very supportive of his frustrations at work.

I have asked, even begged him to lay everything out on the table and share his double life with me so that I can understand him better and so that there are no secrets lingering between us.

He doesn't know how to do that although he says he will answer any questions.

He still says there was no emotional attachment between him and the OW and I am beginning to believe it.

Perhaps that is exactly why it continued for so long. Because his emotions just don't run that deep,

He did say to me soon after dday whenI was a sobbing mess, "Oh FB you feel things enough for all of us"

Is it possible for some people to not just show their emotions, but not to really feel them in the first place?

Sorry for the length of this. Can you tell I am starving to talk?


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
krazy8516
♀ Member
Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FB, my WH is much the same way. Sometimes I wonder if I'm confusing "emotional unavailability" with "unremorseful". It's hard to tell, because he was a very emotional guy when I met him - not so much anymore, but he did cry (legit, actual tears) in the days following d-day when I told him we were headed for divorce. Even then, I'm pretty sure he was more worried about losing his daughter than losing me...

Is it possible for some people to not just show their emotions, but not to really feel them in the first place?

I believe this is the definition of a sociopath. But don't quote me on that. Some people (men in particular, I think) are better at not showing emotion than others. And, like a typical WS, I'm sure he'd rather not discuss his A. As long as he answers your questions when you have them, I probably wouldn't worry too much.

What else is he doing for you? You said he's saying the things you want to hear, but what is he actually doing?


me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We'll Kraft, he is home promptly every day. He spends all of his non-work time with me. He is thoughtful and considerate and kind.

He hugs me a lot and kisses me and tells me how lucky he fee
He is rarely angry anymore, and hasn't been mean or cold since dday.

He assures me that we will get through this, and he will never give up on us.

But.......he doesn't make the time to discuss things that I tell him I need to discuss. His timeline os 18 months overdue. He has had 4 IC sessions, but will stop going after the next.

He promised to join SI as an alternative to IC but hasn't yet posted.

He never sent a NC letter to MOW and he feels absolutely no reason to apologize to OBS.

He has not made the effort to change his office answering machine to delete HER voice from the main line, or his personal voicemail, although I have repeatedly told him that this is like a daily slap in the face.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
krazy8516
♀ Member
Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well...

Does

he is home promptly every day. He spends all of his non-work time with me. He is thoughtful and considerate and kind.
He hugs me a lot and kisses me and tells me how lucky he fee
He is rarely angry anymore, and hasn't been mean or cold since dday.

He assures me that we will get through this, and he will never give up on us.

make up for

he doesn't make the time to discuss things that I tell him I need to discuss. His timeline os 18 months overdue. He has had 4 IC sessions, but will stop going after the next.

He promised to join SI as an alternative to IC but hasn't yet posted.

He never sent a NC letter to MOW and he feels absolutely no reason to apologize to OBS.

He has not made the effort to change his office answering machine to delete HER voice from the main line, or his personal voicemail, although I have repeatedly told him that this is like a daily slap in the face.

this?

And does he tell you why he won't do those things?

My WH never wrote a letter of NC either, but he talked to the OBS personally, and they agreed to NC (I know this because I also talked to the OBS). I don't necessarily know that it's your H's responsibility to apologize to the OBS - his WS needs to own up to her own actions. I suppose a sorry would be nice, but not necessary.

What is the most important thing off your list that he hasn't done yet? Pick that and maybe give him a deadline for completion.



me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your WH had an extremely long LTA and wants to brush everything under the rug? and pretend it didn't happen? and just wants to move forward?

This strategy is not going to work.
This is not what reconciliation looks like.

I would suggest that you read as much as you can in the Healing Library (click on the yellow rectangle on the left of the screen). There are many articles there that will help you understand more about infidelity.

A good book to start with is :Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

And finally, IC ( individual counseling as opposed to marriage counseling )was the key for me being able to process all that happened and helped me to reconcile with my FWH.
My FWH also went to IC.
We did attend MC (marriage counseling as well but later).


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3163 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for some people to not just show their emotions, but not to really feel them in the first place?

Absolutely. My husband's Dday was over 5 years ago. He is as you describe your husband to be. Ignoring the betrayal is conflict avoidant behavior.

Refusing to do what it takes for you to feel safe, and to not have to face the daily triggers of her voice on his voicemail is passive-aggressive behavior.

These two behaviors, combined, are extremely abusive of you. The casualty is intimacy, affection and companionship.

Unfortunately, if he doesn't change because he chooses to, I don't have any good news for you. 5 plus years out and I'm seriously considering divorce and wishing I had done so earlier.

Conversation will not change these traits. Don't pay attention to his words, at all. Observe his behavior.

Sending you hugs!


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow such wonderful posts. My WH is also this way and I know deep down inside that if our situation does not start getting better it will end in S/D. I feel like I'm barely holding on. My WH is very busy working which triggers me, yet he has to work to pay the bills and I'm a mess. I feel we are also returning to old patterns which I figured would happen because my WH has not done the work on himself.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Krazy, If I had to choose, I think the timeline is most important to me, but doing any of these things would show me that he is willing to do what it takes. He had a deadline for the timeline. February 1, 2012(.

His excuses are that he is too busy to do a time line. He wants no contact ever again with OW or her husband.

Njgal, we've both read Not Just Friends and many others. We did go to MC for the first year, and you're right, IC should have come first.The answering machine........He doesn't know how to change it, and there are so many priorities at work.

He actually says he will see that it is done every time I bring it up, but it doesn't happen. I don't even use that line. I call him directly on his cell, so he doesn't see the problem.

Alphakitte, thanks for the hugs. I also fear I will be feeling like you in 5 years.

Crazy, yes, it seems like a return to old patterns and that is scary. Keep holding on.

"Doing the work".....The more I read, the more futile R seems with out it.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, August 30th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are both frustrated that we don't have a lot of opportunity to have personal talks as out our household is full and busy, and by the time we go to bed it is late and as I have learned, is not the time to get into what could become an emotional discussion.

Not making your marriage a priority is a recipe for failure. This is likely why there is little emotional intimacy in the marriage. It's unreasonable to expect a big emotional discussion when you have no time for each other. It takes time to develop a close connection, which both of you seem to be short of. Unless you make each other a priority over your "full and busy" schedule, things are not likely to change.

So sorry for what you are going through.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5644 | Registered: Aug 2007
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fear what you say is true Harden.

Due to the fact that my 90 year old mother is living with us now, and requires a lot of my time, plus three "kids" still at home, plus demanding work, we only really have early mornings and late at night for private time to talk.

Today we were up early and sat outside having coffee for two hours before my mother rang the bell to let me know she needed to get up.

I let my H talk about everything but the A, but it is such superficial stuff.

Later today we went to do some shopping together. Again the conversation revolves around the sits we see on the way, the price of groceries, blah blah blah. No smiles, no laughter. I feel like I am dying. I try not to bring up the A or "us" too much because he said it hurts him as much as it hurts me to talk about it.

Really?

He has told me that he and the OW never talked about their feelings, or where their relationship was going, or even how they felt about each other. I can believe it.

He says it was purely sexual. She was constantly "on" and suggestive at the office, but although he would anticipate their time together, he never felt any emotion other than lust.

How could he be so cold? How could he never "feel" anything toward her or me in all that time?

He says he blocked all thoughts that made him uncomfortable or that made him feel guilty.

I understand the ability to compartmentalize, but he talks as though he lived in two separate worlds, where one had nothing to do with the other.

Sometimes I think I'm going crazy.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((fightingback))

My wife is very much the same way. I too wonder just what she is capable of. Her FOO issues have programmed her hard to retreat from any conflict...and it is clear the conflict in her is just as unappealing to face as the conflict outside in the world.

Prayer and IC is going to reveal to her, and to me, just what she is and is not capable of.

She rarely brings up the A. I have been traditionally open and expressive about my feelings so she most likely doesn't have to ask to know.

But here is a new to me thought....intimacy, true intimacy has very little to do with the conveyance of facts and information...it has more to do with the CONNECTION to another person.

This is going to be my post tonight, so I wont highjack your thread.

But if I am close to correct....our fWS may simply not have the skills needed to actually connect intimately with us....and our skill set was strong enough to carry us this far, and their skill set carried them to adultery.

I will follow this post to see if anyone has gotten past this situation...I think it is very common for WS who are strong Avoiders to do what our spouses are doing.

What am I doing about it? Letting it lie. Words and questions are not going to save my marriage....actions are. At some point I do believe all WS need to bring up the A to BS to move into a healthy marriage.

God be with you.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3648 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Blakesteele,

The thing is, although I realize that it is in part conflict avoidance, my H tells me that he wants to feel a deeper connection with me. He wants us to be able to talk about "everything and anything". He wants to do this journey with me..........

But when we have an opportunity, he just can't bring it up. Even though I have told him that I think about it almost 24/7. And that it would be so helpful if he just offered information instead of me acquiring it piecemeal by asking questions.

In the past 20 months, he has now offered me 2 bits of information that were not preceded by a question.

I don't know how we can have a connection without feeling that we can share our thoughts, dreams and fears.I don't remember him being this way before the affair. We used to talk well into the night. Now I don't feel like he is all that interested in me.

But he surely is interested in keeping his home, his status, his family around him, and his reputation, for what it is worth.

He can say all the right things, but I don't see that he is FEELING it.

Much in the same way as he could spend an evening with his OW, tell her that he loved her, then detach from her and come home, putting her out of his thoughts.

I don't think I'll ever get it.


Now I'm going to look for your thread.

[This message edited by FightingBack at 7:59 PM, August 31st (Saturday)]


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife has told me the exact same sentence. I sincerely wonder if they simply lack the tools to really do this....my wifes FOO issues were really really bad....her Mom exposing herself emotionally to her Dad...her Dad taking each of those opportunities to hurt her with them. I suspect at the end both of her parents were on the polar ends of THEIR poor coping mechanisms....she saw nothing but heartache and pain from what she thought of as a child as intimacy between a husband and wife.

I don't know what she is capable of overcoming.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3648 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Girlietoo
♀ Member
Member # 38719
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, August 31st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am very sorry you are going through this- the voicemail part just about put me over the edge. No way, no how, would I be able to even cope with something like that.

Other than the voicemail piece you have described my husband a attitude/behaviour to a T.

I want to thank you for putting into words the confusing thoughts I've had about WH lately. I don't know the answer and I'm hoping it is simply a matter of those A related feelings being just too painful.

I hope and pray that voicemail is changed stat.


Me- 40
Him- 47
March 9, 2013- the day my heart died

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 5:16 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have asked, even begged him to lay everything out on the table and share his double life with me so that I can understand him better and so that there are no secrets lingering between us.

This is me too. Except that we have all the time in the world with no one else in the house. No amount of begging or threatening has changed anything. With the exception of once about 8 months ago when I threatened to leave he just won't talk.

It is just so sad.

I don't have any answers. I wish I did.

I only have BIG HUGS and empathy.

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2748 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
TxsT
♀ Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting .....like your user name

If Blake had not responded to your post I would have sworn you and he shared the same spouse just a different sex. I did see he posted and already shared that with you.

You sound a lot like me in your open personality. I almost laughed at my H when he said I never shared my feelings with him before the A. Problem is I did. What I have come to realize is that he wasn't hearing the proper meaning of what I was saying. This is not because he was detached and an emotional moron. But because the way I express myself was triggering his own self defence mechanisms that he built trying to survive in a narcissistic controlled, lacking of emotion family.

If there was one thing that has been instrumental in our R it has been our ability, through great MC/IC I might add, to identify our walls and weaknesses and figure out how to communicate so that we both hear exactly what the other person is saying. This has been a very hard process for us, with lots of pitfalls but it has also been a very rewarding journey.

We would never have done this on our own. Professional guidance was needed to properly overcome our mismanaged communication skills. We have both come to realize that it was the way we were speaking and not what we were saying that was all wrong.

I am great full that this has given me a chance to sort myself out, as well as my H. We could have and should have done this work years ago.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 5:52 AM, September 1st (Sunday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
TxsT
♀ Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and I almost forgot.....

Please give this man of yours one more deadline and say that if you don't have what you are asking for by then you are going to leave. You might only be able to leave as far as the garage but leave you must before he is going to GET how screwed up your marriage is. He needs a priority adjustment in the biggest way and he has waisted over a year showing you that.

You are worth the truth at the very least. A time line is exactly what I would demand first. I have never used the word demand on SI before but your H is making me MAD.

Sorry, I usually keep it together at a much higher level but I can't stand reading about WS's that don't fess up and fix the problem. To leave their spouses hanging in the breeze at such a horrible time in their lives is cruel. And yes, the answering machine better go ASAP too. I would have already thrown the whole switch board in the garbage and I am not that type of person!

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 5:58 AM, September 1st (Sunday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for some people to not just show their emotions, but not to really feel them in the first place?

I believe this is the definition of a sociopath.

In fairness you asked not to be quoted, but let's leave the diagnosing to the pros

My whole adult life I wondered if I was a sociopath, because it was clear that I didn't feel emotions like normal women. Turns out I'd detached from my emotions as a self-preservation technique. It's common in PTSD sufferers, my IC says.

So I can relate to your WH's emotional handicap. It took about a month of weekly IC for me to start "feeling" again. Changing like this is difficult, and scary, and confusing. Now that I'm starting to actually feel fear, anger, and sadness...I have to start developing the tools (that normal people developed as teens or young adults) to process them. It's like "starting over" at age 41.

Guess my point is: if he's resistant to change, I get it. He has to want it. For himself. And you have to decide what kind of spouse and M you're willing to accept. For you.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1175 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do appreciate all your replies. I feel that I should clarify something because I don't intend to make my H out to be a heartless, unfeeling person.

He isn't like that at all, but as Blakesteele pointed out, maybe he just hasn't mastered the tools to use in order to even acknowledge his feelings.

I also mentioned that he never asks me about my thoughts or feelings. I may have been misleading. He asks me everyday, probably at least twice, How I am feeling. He just never asks me things like........How do you feel about us? What did you feel when such and such happened.......Are you feeling sad because when we talked about our vacation 10 years ago, you realized that I was with OW at the time.

And he won't acknowledge obvious triggers when we hear about infidelity in the news, or from friends or see it in a movie.

He certainly never says, you know FB I was thinking about when I was with OW...........

It is almost like he is still able to compartmentalize these feelings, if they exist.


He thoughtfully suggested to me that we use "FaceTime" or a webcam so that we can see each other when we talk during the day.

This was a lovely idea, but I would hate to see him at his desk, in his office, with photos of our kids behind him, knowing that that was where most of the conversations and much of the sex took place. I understand why he wouldn't consider such a thing would trigger me. I would be expecting too much if he did, but even when I told him this, he doesn't seem to feel the weight of it.

He doesn't think about her voice on his answering machine because he never hears it. I told him that it would mean so much to me if he changed the message. Of course he said that he would get right on it. He has said that a few times, in fact every time I bring it up. Still no change.

He doesn't personalize how I FEEL. If he did, he would throw the machine out the window.

We do communicate well, when we do it. My problem is that my world is almost defined by what has happened, whereas he is so ready to put it behind us.

I am probably all over the map here.

I hope it makes sense.

I am just so changed. I can't drum up an interest in anything else. I go about my day still thinking about this almost constantly.

All this to say, he is not a bad person, he just cannot FEEL it. At least not enough to realize how important these actions would be to me, and helpful to us.

[This message edited by FightingBack at 10:56 AM, September 1st (Sunday)]


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 762 | Registered: Feb 2012
sinsof thefather
♀ Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, September 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He doesn't think about her voice on his answering machine because he never hears it. I told him that it would mean so much to me if he changed the message. Of course he said that he would get right on it. He has said that a few times, in fact every time I bring it up. Still no change.

I'm sorry but this would just about be the final straw for me. OW's voice is still on his answerphone - 19 months after the D-Day of a 15 year affair? That really is about as disrespectful as it gets. There is no 'reason' or 'excuse' in the world good enough to cover that one. That fact alone just speaks volumes about him imo.

(((FightingBack)))


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1874 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
Topic Posts: 31
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