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User Topic: We had a visitor at our house
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short history - my WH cheated 7 years ago. We have never worked through it - and barely ever even refer it. He is ashamed and defensive. I am devastated and lost and lonely.

Yesterday, my husband is getting ready to take our kids to do some yard work (away from our house) and comes in the house and says, "Well, there is one more thing to deal with!" or something of that nature. I thought it was one of our kids being snarky about having to do work.

He said that one of his clients had called last week about purchising a wheelchair, and that she was planning to come to our city next week, but that she just called and was in town now, and wanted to meet with him.

OK--one point for him for telling me right away.

I'm sure he could tell by my face that I was in shock. He said that he wanted help figuring out the logistics of meeting with her. After some confusion, I figured out that he wanteed to know what I wanted him to do about it since I have the 'infidelity PTSD'. I appreciated that.

I said I didn't want him to go to her hotel - I didn't want him to meet her for a meal. We decided it was between meeting her at work - the kids would be there - or invite her to our home - I would be there.

(I should say that this woman lives far away, and I have no indication that they have ANY relationship other than having spoken over the phone about her need of a wheelchair.)

We finally decided that she would come to our home. I would be here. I asked him for some valium - so that I would be calm during her visit. (I almost NEVER take any medicine of any kind.)

He got a bit pissy when I asked for the valium. When I asked why, he said that he told me immediately about her call, had asked me what I wanted him to do about the situation, and still I needed a valium. (He thought if he went about it correctly, that I shouldn't trigger.)

I tried to educate him about triggers. I told him that having a difficult situation, and getting through it together would actually be more worthwhile in the longrun than not being in the difficult situation at all.

He didn't want the situation to hurt me. It was business, first of all, and secondly, he is really big on helping other disabled people with their everyday life.

I said that I would get through it if we did one thing. Every now and then - while she is here - for him to look at me and make eye contact with me - and smile at me. I would smile back, and we would know that his smile would mean that "its him and me" and that he hopes I am OK. My smile back would mean that I'm doing OK so far with the situation, and that I appreciate his concern.

I thought it was a pretty good plan. Wrong.

He disagrees, but I did not experience even one of those moments - him making eye contact and smiling at me - unless he was recalling a story to her, and he turned to me to clarify.

She was a very pretty woman. She was thin, and younger. She had a delightful personality. If she lived anywhere around here, we would probably be fast friends.

When she left, my husband immediately asked how it went for me, "Was that OK?" I said that, no, it wasn't OK because he never did what we planned. He said that he certainly did, but that I was never looking at him.

To be fair, I think the plan was flawed. There was only the 3 of us, and when she was talking to him, he would be looking at her, and when she was talking to me, I would be looking at her. Not much opportunity to look away to 'touch base' with each other.

We discussed it later - which is a step in the right direction for him. I toldhim that he made more eye contact and smiled at her more in 2 hours than he had with me in 5 years. He said they were talking directly to her and he didn't want to be rude. I believe him. I wasn't thrilled about her being here, but I felt the same way. AND, she was very easy to look at and interact with because of her personality.

After thinking about the whole thing, I can't decide if the experience was a slight success, or if it made things worse.

Oh yeah, another part of our plan to get through the situation was for him to hold me (I actually asked for it-totally unlike me) when we went to bed, and ask if I was OK, and reassure me.

Of course that didn't happen, because I had told him the plan had fallen through. I fell asleep on the couch, and he was asleep when I went in to bed.

At least there was no big fight. I am just so disappointed. When the situation presented itself, I think I acted reasonable (and actually so did he) and we did get through it - possibly with a new friend. BUT - I was so disappointed that (although I felt no threat from her - she engaged me as much or more as she did him) I was so hoping he would be able to follow through with our plan, and it would be something to build on.

Its hard to judge the whole thing for me - actually being in the situation.

Any thoughts??? Please!

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 8:16 AM, August 25th (Sunday)]


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
jo2love
♀ Moderator
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it was great that your H brought the issue to you right away, you both made a plan, and then spoke afterwards. The plan may not have worked this time, but good things came out of it. You both communicated your thoughts and feelings. Worked together to come up with a solution. You can try the plan again. This will give him the opportunity to make more eye contact.

Posts: 36058 | Registered: Mar 2011
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you are in a similar situation in the future I'd suggest holding hands the entire time you are with the other person.


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3443 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the optomism. Today, things are back to normal. No eye contact - no conversation.

It was an opportunity missed. I think I did all I could.

Like you said - I guess maybe we will have another chance some time.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you have a prescription for anti-anxiety medication or does he have a valium stash? (Obviously he is in healthcare...)

Considering that PTSD can be a very real side effect of all of this, it shouldn't be too difficult to see a psychiatrist and have them help you with this... if you have medical insurance.

Sorry, I was just taken aback at asking permission for the valium and wanted to make sure you had access to therapy and resources to make your own decisions regarding your health. While in a doctor's care.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17917 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband takes valium from time to time when he has any body pain - he can't really feel pain, but he shakes when he is in pain. So he has valium on hand in the event that this happens.

I do not have a prescription because I don't want one. Any time I ask, he is happy to give me one - which is very infrequent.

I apologize if I gave the impression that I was asking permission.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok... I guess with the permission thing off the table I'm still a little worried for you regarding borrowing Valium.

I just know that borrowing the heavy-duties can lead to health (including mental) complications down the road, and I'd hate to see that happen to you.

For the sake of exploration, why is it ok to take his meds but you are against getting your own? Is it the perceived stigma? Or the concern about the process? Is it that it's too hard to talk to someone else about what happened? I'm asking because I'd really like to see you have something of your own to combat the PTSD. I got Ativan after being felled with panic attack after panic attack and finally seeing a psychiatrist on top of my MFT. He wasn't all "drugs fix everything" about it, but we discussed how having this at my disposal could almost be calming in a way - and he was right. When I didn't worsen the attack by being scared about it getting deeper, I could manage it better without drugs, ironically.

I just think that if you need Valium for relief, and he raises an eyebrow when you ask... well, that might be making you too dependent on him and subject to his judgement when you feel the panic start to rise. You shouldn't have to sit there defining triggers to him to get a pill, right?


I know you didn't directly invite this aspect for dissection, so feel free to say "I'd rather not discuss it."

ETA - I'm drawing my concerns from these contradictory statements:

Any time I ask, he is happy to give me one...


He got a bit pissy when I asked for the valium.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:18 PM, August 25th (Sunday)]


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17917 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
crazynot
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Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had post-A PTSD too. I'm worried about every word of what you say. Not because I think it suggests your H is being unfaithful, but because of the awful picture it paints of your life. You cannot be happy in this constant state of anxiety. My marriage ended after the A (it was the second D-day in our marriage) and since then I've fallen in love again, and can honestly say that the picture you paint of someone asking their partner to make eye-contact in some staged way is very, very sad. This is no way to live your life, WhatsRight. What got me out of the state you're in was a magnificent therapist and two years of anti-depressants and beta-blockers. It's so sad that infidelity does this to people. But there is a cure - and only you can find it. For your marriage you need to deal with this unexploded bomb at the heart of your relationship, but for your own mental health, much more important, you need to get free of this hellish anxiety.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 884 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
painpaingoaway
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Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

picture you paint of someone asking their partner to make eye-contact in some staged way is very, very sad.
I see nothing sad about this whatsoever. I see this as a positive in WhatsRight's situation. Although it did not actually work out the way whatsright thought it would, they were trying together to figure out a way to make the situation more comfortable for whatsright. How is that 'sad'?

And for your word 'staged', that sounded a bit condescending, but okkaaayyy...whatever, I suppose then we all must be guilty of 'staging' situations when we ask our FWS's to help us through certain triggers.

After thinking about the whole thing, I can't decide if the experience was a slight success, or if it made things worse.
whatsright, I see it as a slight success in your situation. And as far as you asking him to hold you later, even though it didn't happen, I see as a huge success for you because you asked for touch, and I'm completely confident that if you had not deemed the plan a failure, and the two of you had gone to bed at the same time, he would have held you.

And whatsright, something I would really love to happen for you two, would be for you to reach out and hold him tonight, and tell him that even though things didn't work out exactly the way you would have preferred, that you recognized it was a somewhat flawed plan, but that you appreciate him trying to help you get thru it.

The therapeutic, healing power of touch is an amazing thing whatsright. Don't deny yourself or him it's value.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ppga...Hi! Good to hear from you.

Well, last night I had a bit of an anxiety attack - a drama filled weekend even other than our visitor. My husband did ask me to put my head on his shoulder, but I declined. Hard to explain why. I think it is because he thinks that is what someone is supposed to do in that situation - not that he wants to actually hold me. I don't think that he feels that kind of 'wanting to hold me' thing for real, and I have been so devalued by his betrayal AND the lack of effort since then to work on oiur marriage - that it sometimes hurts MORE to have him hold me than if he doesn't. I don't even know if that makes sense. I'm sure I should have taken him up on it, and then there would at least have been a chance for a positive moment. Its like I self-sabotage sometimes. Why do I do that?

Anyway, I did talk to him this morning about what you said. I told him that maybe the plan was flawed. That a look at each other is tough when you are making eye contact with someone who is talking to you. He keeps saying that he DID try to do that. I told him that I thought it might have been a bit wierd to expect that kind of 'look' at me when I don't believe he feels it deep inside. I seriously don't remember the last time he made eye contact with me.

I told him this morning that I spend a lot of time trying to learn / research / think about how to 'help us' and I feel like I am doing it alone. I told him - all very calm and with compassion, that I didn't want this kind of marriage. I said that I know he had been at this point for a while, because he has mentioned divorce, but that it has taken me longer to get here. I said that I wanted to work on it, but that if this was 'it', I thought we needed to explore other options. I didn't state it as an ultimatum, just what seemed like natural consequence of letting something die -

I asked him if he wanted a relationship with me. He said "yes". I told him that we needed to do more.

I don't know if anything will change, but I just say what I am feeling - and that's what I'm feeling today.

The God's honest truth is that I think he DOES want a relationship with me, but I think that he sees the 'road back' - considering all his FOO issues, and working through his infidelity - as too much. And it is hard for me to respect that degree of weakness. I think a good counselor could get us past my degree of betrayal that I feel, and his shame and guilt. Don't know how to find a good one - and everyone says to get IC first. I don't know how much more time we actually have if we don't feel some sor of relief soon. That was my hope for Saturday - that it would be the first step of finding our way back to each other.

Jrazz...

Thanks for the concern, and I do not mind talking about it at all. I can see that my statements contradicted each other.

From time to time, I will take a 5 mg valium of his for one reason or another - maybe once a month. I have never EVER asked him for one that he hasn't immediately given me what I asked for - without question. There have been some times when he sees that I am upset that he will even ask if I need one.

When I mentioned he was a bit pissy when I asked for a valium on Saturday, it wasn't because of the pill. It was his total clueless thoughts that if he told me about her call, and asked me what I wanted him to do about meeting her, that I should not 'need' one. That there should be no trigger.

He does not control me in that way at all. In fact, I ask out of respect - rather than just reach in his bag and get one. But if I did - he would not mind. In fact, I have done that once when we were driving through the town where he had his ONS, and the kids were with us. I just reached over and got one because I didn't want the kids to hear me ask.

It is more of a situation like "Could I borrow your brush?"

I REALLY appreciate your concern. I hope I'm not missing your point.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ppga...

To respond to your comment about the therapeutic power of 'touch', I so TOTALLY agree.

I am an EXTREMELY touchy person. I have yearned to be touched for so long by him, that when he touches me it actually causes me physical as well as emotional pain. I don't know how to describe it otherwise.

So, I think when he says he feels unwelcomed to make advances toward me - he is probably picking up on something that is real.

I don't know how to cross this bridge. I say that he never makes eye contact with me - but in all honesty, neither do I. I can't stand to see the 'lack of love' in them. I don't want to just be another person to him.

I want him to want to touch me - look at me with those eyes - feel for me. But it is just so painful to me.

I think we are suffering the same things - wanting a relationship but feeling so doubtful about the possibility - afraid to look each othe in the eyes - afraid of what we will see. Etc.

How screwed up is that???

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 10:02 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its like I self-sabotage sometimes. Why do I do that?
I've done it too, I'm sure we all have at times. I think sometimes it's pride, sometimes it's wanting to hurt them back, and sometimes it is just a long ingrained pattern of dysfunctional behavior.

But, the bottom line is, that you MUST stop doing it. Sometimes whatsright, we have to become the change we want to see in them.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes we have to become the change we want to see in them.

This is so totally true. So totally true. I don't know how.

The only way I know how to explain it is this...At one point I had gained a bunch of weight - it happened at the time we began to drift apart years ago. (I'm not saying it was because of the weight.) I wanted to lose the weight, and I know he wanted me to, but I thought..."If I lose the weight, and somehow our relationship gets better, I will TOTALLY not respect him, because I will think it is because of the weight."

Now, I want to continue to work on 'us', but sometimes I feel that if I do this and that, and after 7 or 10 or 15 years he finally decides he might want me again, it will be so hard to respect that. It will be yet another betrayal - that he has had to be begged and had it laid in front of him before it is 'worth' his attention.

I want the real deal. I want the "running after me, saying - DON'T GO!" I want the "I'll do anything to make things right."

Anything else seems like sloppy seconds. (Please excuse the analogy.)

Is that spoiled and entitled of me?

I want to be worth so much to him that he would be willing to chase me. Yes, I am 60 years old, and I said that I wanted him to chase me and beg me to stay.

What a freak of nature!


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
crazynot
♀ Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really, really was not intending to be condescending, and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. It's just that I identified so much with how I used to feel.It's NOT healthy to live like this after seven years.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 884 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a freak of nature!
no, you are not a freak of nature to want to be pursued, begged, etc, but you can't keep living your life 'waiting' for him to do something before you do something. If you want change, and he is not making a move, then you are going to have to make the move. I feel like you are punishing yourself.

And the thing about the weight loss...wow...whatsright, that is for sure punishing yourself, and for sure some unhealthy thinking.

I really wish you would start putting yourself first, quit thinking about how this or that will pan out in regards to him and what conclusions you think he will make based on what you do, and just try to live your life in ways that make YOU happy. And don't tell me if he does XYZ, then you will be happy. Make yourself happy aside from him!

If you want a kiss, kiss him. If you want to be held, hold him. If you want a look and smile, give him a look and a smile. Whatsright, what do you have to lose????? A marriage, yes, but you are going to lose that anyway if something does not change!

Sometimes we have to become the change we want to see in them.

This is so totally true. So totally true. I don't know how.
You just do it honey. Just do it.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked him if he wanted a relationship with me. He said "yes". I told him that we needed to do more.

I want the "running after me, saying - DON'T GO!" I want the "I'll do anything to make things right." Anything else seems like sloppy seconds. (Please excuse the analogy.) Is that spoiled and entitled of me? I want to be worth so much to him that he would be willing to chase me. Yes, I am 60 years old, and I said that I wanted him to chase me and beg me to stay.

You want the Hollywood movie moment -- so you occasionally drop the Divorce card, hoping for the chase.

Real life doesn't always look like a movie.

It’s like I self-sabotage sometimes.

Yes! That's where a good IC can help you look at self-defeating behaviors. (We all have them!) I'm not sure why you are so resistant to IC?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Real life doesn't always look like a movie.
Ditto.

That's where a good IC can help you look at self-defeating behaviors. (We all have them!) I'm not sure why you are so resistant to IC?
Ditto.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7113 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((WhatsRight)))

I know what you mean about the PTSD . You made it through the meeting that's a plus!

My WH has female clients in the adult entertainment industry so I understand the anxiety that's involved. One thing that has really helped me is my IC (god bless her) my medication, my friend support, SI, and the good ol' 180.

I think each time you make it through one of these experiences in a positive way, the easier it gets. The less anxiety, etc etc. Either that or I'm a blabbering idiot.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so appreciate all of your contributions to this thread.

First of all, this is the first time in my life I have told him that if we can't move forward, we might need to look at other options. I didn't mention the "D" word. And he has mentioned it at least haof a dozen times since the infidelity.

I understand that real life isn't a movie. I am not wanting to live in a fantasy.

But I have also read countless times on this site that people have given all kinds of ultimatums and the husband has begged for a second chance, or been willing to so whatever it takes to reconcille. I don't think that is wanting a movie.

I want to be wanted. I want to be worth something to him.

Come to think of it, that isn't freakish.

Some of you got this. I know I will not be getting it, but I was just wistfully wishing out loud.

I think I am a person of value. I am proud every time I have accomplished something. But, at this point, it would be of GREAT consequence if he could give me a sign that my continued efforts have a possibliity of facilitating change.

I want my husband back, and I want him to want me. I don't really think that is too much to want.

Am I wrong???


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want my husband back, and I want him to want me. I don't really think that is too much to want.

My husband did ask me to put my head on his shoulder, but I declined. Hard to explain why. I think it is because he thinks that is what someone is supposed to do in that situation - not that he wants to actually hold me. I don't think that he feels that kind of 'wanting to hold me' thing for real, and I have been so devalued by his betrayal AND the lack of effort since then to work on our marriage - that it sometimes hurts MORE to have him hold me than if he doesn't.

Two opposing thoughts; could one possibly be a self-defeating behavior?

WhatsRight, what is your fear of IC?

[This message edited by ladies_first at 1:21 PM, August 26th (Monday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

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