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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 13
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure if we are even talking about the same thing any more...

But my point about the monopoly money was that the sex (or more specifically the physical fidelity) was of no value. That the betrayal in WW's mind was when she started the relationship and was 'in love'. That is not saying anything about how much WW enjoyed the sex itself. Just talking about value in exchange.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know one thing I've been struggling with is the whole "trying to do cool shit" in order to relax, detach and heal. I have a 6 year old with "weapons-grade ADHD"...I feel like I spend every non-working hour stopping him from lecturing strangers, singing in public, and running into anything with a hard corner...I mean, if I steal 30 minutes to read I feel like I'm robbing him... Plus, I feel like I'm subconsciously trying to blunt the impact of my wife's FOO issues on his development.

Sorry... Long day. Exhausted. Maybe it'll get better once he starts school next week.

75 minutes to draw out why the ONE TEACHER at lego animation camp is mean to him, amidst hysterics and nastiness, engaged at a level where you can't multitask dishes or fold laundry while you do it. That was yesterday.

I swear man we thought we just sucked as parents until we had the second one. It's like "Holy shit, he's four and he can pick out his own clothes and dress himself." It's actually more of a comfort to hear that the ADD insanity is just going to be that way until he's late teens. That saying "Take a shower" to a ten year old will result in said ten year old sitting on the floor with a sock on his head trying to figure out the requisite force to propel a gob of toothpaste onto the ceiling or hooting the theme to Harry Potter (the first film) while standing on his head (still with the sock on it.. how the fuck does that sock stay there, I do not know) if left unsupervised for 47 seconds or longer. 46 seconds is the threshold. I timed it. Damage happens after that. Insanity, long before, but as time goes on you cut corners.

Let him sing. Fuck, teach him what to lecture those strangers. My kids lecture people on why Apple sucks balls and iphones are shit. If he's gonna do it, aim him where you want him going. It gives you an extra five minutes to take a dump before they have the dog on the couch and they're strangling each other with wiimotes.

It does get better. It's just hard to see it as it happens. Hang in there man.


ďFate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.Ē

Posts: 7110 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mrs. Kite once told me that no one to her knowledge has ever cheated on her. So how can I expect her to have empathy - to know what it feels like to walk in my shoes? I don't expect her to do something she's not capable of, so I stopped looking for that from her. It's like telling a cancer patient you know how they feel, yet you've never experienced the fear and pain they've known.

This is why this site and the Menz section in particular is so important to me. The people here know what they're talking about. A sincere thanks to all who contribute on this site and to those who keep it running!!!

A few months ago, Mrs. Kite took a job which is 6 hours round-trip. She rented a cottage close to work and comes home Friday night and leaves Monday morning. I used to love Fridays and hate Mondays, now that's reversed. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder. What it's done in my case is to remind me that I'm just fine on my own. Anyone else ever experience this?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
flup
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Member # 21259
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Exactly, Mr Kite! We are fine on our own... Like in college - or whatever your particular pre-shackling scenario was.

I'm an airline pilot, and my wife works full time in landscaping (mostly male) and she continues to finagle her way into the lives of her male co-workers with personal birthday presents and other small ( what I see as) attention-getting behaviors.

It bothers me to no end, but, after all the shit I've been through with her A's, all I need is the straw that breaks the camels back, and THAT'S it!

I don't think she realizes the thin ice our "marriage" is on... I was always "all in" prior to D-Day, now I live with one foot out the door, and she's thinks I'm the best thing "evah" (apologies to WAL).

We have to revert to pre-A male behavior patterns... Do what is right for YOU. If that fits in with her framework also, then the union may survive. If not - There's the door Toots... Don't let it hit you in that nicely- formed ass!


Me: BS 55
Her: fWW 50

D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married


Posts: 426 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Ohio
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But my point about the monopoly money was that the sex (or more specifically the physical fidelity) was of no value

More specifically the physical fidelity was of no value.

This.

A while back I wrote that I've come to believe that most of what we were taught about marriage growing up was wrong. Head of that list was the false belief that it was the women that valued fidelity and the horn dog boys that didn't. Ain't so.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting discussion and a quick start to the new thread. Glad to see you back Jack. Give WAL some hell!!

I think I wasnít terribly clear the other day. I have found it interesting to discuss these things as my WW *catches up with the rest of the class*.

We had a discussion in MC about the whole love languages. It was nothing that I didnít already know about her. Like many of us, I was accused of being emotionally unavailable, but I know a whole lot more about her and I than Iíd ever be given credit for. She had told me that the most important things for her were my *acts of service* - my hard work and ability to provide for the family, helping with the kids when I get home, helping around the house without being asked, cleaning/maintain/fixing the bikes/cars/lawnmower/pool equipment/tv remote/etc., and in general just taking care of our family. I was showing her my love by caring for others.

About a year or so before her A, she started complaining about all of those things. I didnít do enough around the house; all I cared about was myself, worked too much, etc. It didnít register with me at all, because I knew I was doing all of those things pretty darn well and if it wasnít good enough for her that was on her. During the A the complaints diminished and things *appeared better*. After D-day, those same issues resurfaced with a vengeance and for some reason I started to *evaluate* those complaints more thoroughly. I second-guessed myself because *something* had to drive her into another manís arms. That stage didnít last long because I knew that I wasnít perfect but I tried pretty hard and was a decent husband.

Fast-forward to today and my now remorseful WW tells me that I was indeed very good at meeting her *needs* and that I spoke her *love language* fluently. It is interesting that the things she says she needs the most are the same things that she chose to criticize me the most to help justify her morally corrupt choices. It wouldnít have been as convincing to her if she chose things that didnít matter to her. She had to choose the deal-breaker type issues to have enough clout to justify adultery. Bizarre thinking but it does fit with my perceptions of the events. It fits well with what Sal saidÖ

I kind of wonder, if POSER was so wonderful at meeting her needs, why did my wife drop him like a hot potato the moment I discovered her affair? All of a sudden, I met her needs just fine and she was ALL about saving what was apparently so inadequate just the day before. I was, and remain 6 months later, the PRIZE.

I agree with Jack in thatÖ
Because once exposed and in the open, the fantasy is gone and thus the feelings manufacturing capability is wiped out. It was never about the OM, just the feelings she created for herself.

My WW is finally mad at herself and the OM, but she hasnít quite caught up with the class entirely. She hasnít figured out what *feelings* she was specifically getting from the OM to lead to the A, but at least she recognizes that her wayward behavior of criticizing my lack of meeting her needs were grossly inaccurate. She is disgusted with herself and now tells me I am *perfect* for her and that I was *perfect* all along.

Regardless of how things turn out I have to say that is nice for her to have made this amount of progress. Even if we end up D, raising our son will be a whole lot more coordinated with these basic understandings in place.

The problem for me is that Iíve grown apathetic and a little bored with this class. I feel I have learned a lot and in fact I can acknowledge that I am a much better man because of this challenge. Iím more attentive to others, notice interactions and facial expressions more readily, Iím focused and determined to make a difference each day and in general I think Iím just a more pleasant person to be around. If we are driving and you put on your turn signal at the last moment wanting to get over in a lane that is about to end that you knew was going to end about a mile ago, I just *might* slow down and let you in Ė maybe. I wouldnít wish this on anyone, but Iím improved and upgraded and I actually like it.

The upgraded version though still has a huge problem with the A and the nearly 18 months that it took for her to stop the blame shifting and really crappy behavior. The amount of selfishness and total lack of empathy that it took to pretend our marriage was fine while screwing another guy behind my back and more importantly watching me implode after D-day without showing any real signs of remorse is staggering.

As I return to living my life authentically, I struggle with my lack of *desire* for my WW and our M. That just isnít how I live. I put my all into everything I do. If I canít do it well, then I just wont do it. My wife has eroded so many feelings I have towards her that Iím pretty darn indifferent at this point. I can appreciate her *efforts* and I know she is a great mother*, good friend*, committed* to our M and the likelihood of her having another A is extremely low* (* denotes my cynical inner dialogue) BUT it doesnít change the fact that when I look at her I feel very little. Tarnished comes close, but seems to fall short in describing how I feel.

I admire the men (and women) who have tried, continue to try or have found the solution to this challenge whether that is in R or D. It is a remarkably difficult undertaking. For those just starting, donít loose sight of yourself because you will come out in the end a better person someday. I know I have.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:04 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Camalus
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Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Controlling Anger

Last night I got so angry I felt like my head could just explode. When I took my wife her evening meds she mentioned I had been acting a little withdrawn lately.

I wanted to scream, ďDAMN, Yaí Think! You had an affair and managed to keep it secret for 14 years after it ended. I think Iíve got a right to act a little withdrawn, maybe even a little pessimistic about what I thought was a happy marriage for the last 33 (almost 34) years.Ē Instead, I just nodded and left the room.

I have found two things that let me blow off steam; playing ZZ Top LOUD and going to the range and putting lead down range.

With ammo being expensive and range time costing 20 an hour, I am looking for ideas of other things that might let me release the anger in some constructive (and safe) method. Öand before you ask, yes I do visualize the POSOMís face on the silhouette target when I am at the range.

Thank God for this forum.


MeĖBS age 60
Her -- WS age 58
Married for 33 years
One child, 30yrs

I changed my username to Camalus...the Celtic God of War, Sky, and Retribution.
Camalus wore the horns for a brief period of time


Posts: 93 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Head of that list was the false belief that it was the women that valued fidelity and the horn dog boys that didn't.

Yep. I see that too - but I ascribe that to immature women or women with general emotional/mental issues. Seems on some innate level women seek commitment (i.e. physical safety / financial security) but that love=feelings. For me I always have thought that love=loyalty and commitment and just 'hoped' that feelings would catch up. This passive activity of 'hoping' is on me - I had choices and control to make my world of feelings different.

And I am going to chime in with one more comment on this as I think about in a subtle way what I am trying to say:

More specifically the physical fidelity was of no value.

Not that physical fidelity was of complete disregard or disdained. It is just that on the "Balance Sheet' of the marriage, under the Long-term Assets category, 'physical fidelity' had a book value of $0.01. Subsequently, under the Current Assets category, 'Feelings Generation Machine (the A) showed up with a book value of $1MM. So a good trade...except WW overlooked that also under Long-term Assets was the 'Safety, Security, and Family Generation Machine, with a book value of $100MM, which was about to be sold at salvage for a buck. Whoops.

Kinda rational huh? All WW did was completely mis-value all the assets in her poor, unhappy company. See the market value of the Feelings Machine was really zero, and that of the Family Machine was gold. We should make sure we fire WW from family asset valuation.

Now that was fun, especially for me being a Marketing guy. I guess I could have used a video game metaphor so as to increase reader satisfaction ratings.

MW really hit the right note, getting used to the idea that you are married to a dumb slut. At least it is my dumb slut.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:55 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC

I don't know about the rest of our readers here, but I'm a CEO and I got a lot of satisfaction out your balance sheet analogy.

I do love this woman, and I looked at the stats and decided she was less likely to cheat again than another one that I might randomly pick up off the street. That meant "carrying a heavy load" but it beat the alternatives.

Sometimes, when shit happens, there is no perfect outcome. That's life. I'm basically a Beta, but that's Alpha thinking.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm an airline pilot

Wow! The menz in this thread sure do something interesting things for a living. Do you have any hot stewardess stories to relate?

I consider myself a rational person but whenever I strap myself into my seat in that thin metal tube and get ready for takeoff, I inwardly freak. One time on a late-night flight from San Jose to Chicago, it occurred to me that I was the only passenger still awake. I was mentally holding the plane up in the air.

It bothers me to no end, but, after all the shit I've been through with her A's, all I need is the straw that breaks the camels back, and THAT'S it!

Exactly! It's almost like I'm hoping for that to happen so I can put this M out of its misery once and for all.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
DWBH
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Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crikey, this thread moves fast. I always find myself wanting to comment on shit that is several pages back...


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
Brandon808
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Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crikey, this thread moves fast. I always find myself wanting to comment on shit that is several pages back...

I know, right?


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3365 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crikey, this thread moves fast.

It is always a good day when you can work in a word like *crikey* into the discussion. It's much better than a picture of Fabio or David Hasselhoff.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a thread in JFO about physical rage. I read through the whole thing and it left me pissed. I understand anger over the betrayel from an A, but damn the double standard pisses me off.

I knew that if I layed a hand on my WW I would go to jail. Why? Because I have a cock and balls, no other reason. but I read about BW's slapping, hitting and kicking their WH's and it just amazed me.

eta: I never wanted to hit my STBXWW for the record. I don't operate that way.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 11:41 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Mikey56
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Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RB,

I read that thread on Physical Rage and thought the same thing.

Physical Rage is another term for Assault.

I have always felt that there are some simple, basic rules that are taught in kindergarden. Like:

Don't hit the other kids

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In full disclosure I have been the victim of DV so I am coming from a hurt place. I read that shit and I go back to a bad time. A place of shame and anger that I allowed it to happen. I am hand to hand combat trained and more than capable of taking care of myself. But the mental games it plays does far more damage. Tack on the gender nuances surrounding DV and things get even more screwy.

I think another fishing trip may be in order now.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is always a good day when you can work in a word like *crikey* into the discussion

IDK, it's just so common here in WI, I hardly notice it...


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The ex physically attacked me 4 times... It really fucks with your mind because when it's happening you know you can't really fight back... You can somewhat defend yourself but you can't open up a can of whoop ass on her... I used to be a hell of a boxer in my day...

About a week after Dday I moved out... Got a great place and started living a life completely away for her...

She crawled through the doggie door one Thanksgiving night and proceeded to terrorize me... Accusing me of screwing around... Hitting me, slapping around... Complete and total chaos...

I called the police when she went to her car, got a gun and pointed it at me... She'd already put my golden retriever in her car...

She took off with the dog... The police were worthless... Why?... Because I've got a cock and balls... If it had been her calling and I'd done that bullshit I'd still be rooming at the crossbar hotel...

I read that thread in JFO... Had to contain myself... I deleted the post I'd typed because I was throwing it down a bit much...

I've never hit a woman and never would and I'll never hesitate to press charges against a woman that attacks me physically...

It really fucked with my mind for a while but I did the right thing except for not having her arrested...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wb,

WOW, doggie door and everything. Sorry you had to go through that. Sounds horrible. You are right though, if some guy did that he'd be all over the 5 o'clock news and NOW would be starting up a new campaign to punish men for forcing her to go through the doggie door and not leaving the door unlocked.

I found myself thinking the same thing in the middle of the attack(s). I knew I couldn't do a damn thing about it. In one incident I was told by her that she was going to call the police and tell them I hit her. This was after she assaulted me, closed fisted and everything. Stay at home mom with a crying baby or man, who do you think they would believe?

So glad I am out of that fuckupedness.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thread in WS about that same thing. I tried to read the JFO one, but it was just too... And I still expect the "You go girl" chorus to chime in at any moment.

Hell, look at movies, when a man slaps (even in retaliation) a woman he is a monster, when a woman slaps a man it is foreplay.

I don't think it is just a question of being taught violence is wrong, hell I happily advocate violence as a tool to deal with certain wrongs when there are no better options. I am not so into videogames that I expect to be able to respawn. I think that the self control to avoid using that tool comes from being personally familiar with violence. I think that's why with my worst rage, when I tried to imagine being violent with STBX I ran into a mental block, and the picture just froze in my head.

WB, I never did boxing, but I did study some Kung Fu, and was quite proficient in Hockey fights (and brawls). I think the minimizing, justification, etc. seems to come from people without that intimate understanding of violence.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
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