I'm no saint either, but when I took my vows I was all in... and when we had kids I realized my life was not going to be my own for a looonnng time. Yet she says she "grew up"... honey, you don't know what growing up is.
I'll tell you one thing, I'm going to be stronger and better and more confident in ME after this. I'll benefit from it, my kids will benefit from it and if she wants, she can benefit from it too... if not, some day maybe somebody else will benefit from it.
If not, I'll let you guys know - there's still a chance.
To make myself feel better for him, I'm imagining his L eviscerating her on the stand...
He def needs MOJO.
Props to you Bird, that's a great tude, dude.
Second that. Welcome, LB.
Yet she says she "grew up"... honey, you don't know what growing up is.
My WW also told me her relationship with the AP finally made her feel like an adult. So according to them being an adult means lying, cheating, and denying all of the values you grew up with? Nice model for our kids.
jj, thanks. I went through something similar after my rebound from #3. See http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502650 p25 for that beauty. Anyway, began taking classes in early childhood development, cognitive development and developmental psych to help me raise my son. (I had just been awarded custody against all the odds). Met a woman(STB#4) in one of the classes. We hooked up the following semester in Abnormal psych . Stayed together for 7 years while I helped her obtain her mslsw(masters of science licensed social work) so she could begin her career in.....yep marital counseling!
When obtaining that degree, the first piece of advice they give is DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DIAGNOSE FAMILY MEMBER! But, by the end of year 6, I has every 'ism, 'ist in the book. Somewhere in the middle of 6 and 7, she began an affair. I left her after the confrontation. Just walked away. It was kind of weird. When the door hit her in the ass on the way out, I thought I was in for better things.
Right up until FWW became #5
Damn, can I pick 'em or what.
Oh, and just to make it even more fun!!! When we began to investigate MC, guess who the ONLY insurance approved therapist was?
My WW also told me her relationship with the AP finally made her feel like an adult.
And I am guessing she had a hard time accepting that "adult" decisions have adult consequences as well?
My 15 year old is another story. He is a very put together young man, but this has him shaken. He had overhead me yelling about the affair a few weeks back so asked his mother about it on a night I was out of the house. She told her version of events, probably full of her regular justifications (he never really told me what she said). I gave him my version the following night. I went into some of the common justifications, such as my anger, and talked about how that is something I had struggled with over the years, but have been making progress over the last two years in therapy. I told him that unfortunately, even though his mother spent a lot of energy convincing me to get help for my anger and depression, when I finally started doing the work she chose not to stick by me, and chose her AP. I told him the separation was also not my choice, but since his mother chose the AP, that was that.
One other thing that came out in the telling from both sides, which unfortunately my son has to deal with as well, is that my wife's cancer prognosis is now 2-4 years. He did not know that before this all came out.
So he has started up with a therapist, and saw her last night, Afterwards I talked with him some. He said that he wants my wife and I to get our shit together and to get things back to normal. I didn't know quite what to say, because I don't want to lay the burden, that this is all his mother's choice, on him. He also asked me why I was ignoring his grandmother, who has been around this week to help my WW. I told him that I wanted to be honest, but also didn't want to ruin his relationship with his grandmother. So I told him I was angry with both his mother and his grandmother for the relationship his mother is having, and that my ignoring is connected. I left it at that. So he is the one I am currently most worried about, although I think the little ones might be the ones who feel it more long term.
So there it is. Thanks for asking.
[This message edited by kg201 at 12:15 PM, September 6th (Friday)]
[This message edited by kg201 at 12:16 PM, September 6th (Friday)]
Welcome to all the new menz on this thread. Sorry we all have to meet under these trying circumstances but there is strength in numbers and in mutual experience.
I have come to the conclusion that some human beings get stuck in their adolescence, in their teenage years. They look like adults, have jobs, are able to procreate, etc. but have been unable to make the full transition into adulthood. They have yet to develop a sense of honor or accountability.
Selfishness, lying, and cheating, are not signs of maturity.So these WW's meet up with men who are in the same stunted emotional stage and boom - an A occurs.
Adults set boundaries for themselves and hold themselves accountable when they screw up. Teenagers, for the most part, are unable to do this without guidance and supervision.
Until I understood my own WW's emotional condition as a teenage brat at the age of 60, I continued to reason with her as if she was an adult. This is of course maddening. She's told me on more than one occasion to stop treating her like a child. My answer is always the same, "Act like an adult and I'll treat you like one."
Sorry if any of this sounds condescending but it is the only answer I've been able to come up with that makes sense to me.
Okay. That's out of my system.
I'll try to sum up a funny story that happened a few years ago:
I got a vasectomy.
I met a girl soon afterwards. She was nice and attractive but with a selfish streak that raised a big red flag. She was 32 at the time and I could practically HEAR her biological clock ticking. Regardless, she was a good lay, easy on the eyes, and reasonably good company.
I did NOT tell her about my vasectomy and I always used a condom with her to protect against STDs. She assumed, obviously, that the condom was only used for birth control. Silly girl.
We date for a few months. I never made any move towards commitment but she brought it up ocassionally. For me, this was a casual but pleasant relationship. For her - as I was to find out - it was part of life-changing series of events that she was planning very carefully.
Four months into dating, I get the "I'm pregnant" talk. She's going on and on about how the condom must have broke and now we really need to think about getting married "for the baby". She's positively giddy. She has a baby in her and she thinks she's gonna have a good meal ticket (me) to go along with her new 7lb annuity.
At this point, I'm just as giddy. I get to pull the reverse "oops" on her. I figured that she slept with some bad boy and got knocked up. Good thing I was using condoms! Better still that I have a serious mistrust of women who can't think beyond their own uteri.
So I wait a couple of days to "think about all this." I meet her again. I say I don't want kids and that she should have an abortion. I know where this is going and sure enough it goes there. She goes completely batshit insane on me. There were the usual insults about my manhood. There were threats of legal action. It was all very ugly and I was loving every minute of it.
Well, I let her stew for a few days. She leaves me nasty messages on my phone. She sends awful emails. I'm laughing hysterically.
It was time to drop the hammer. While she was stewing I was busy. First I get a notarized copy from the urologist who performed the vasectomy. Next I get a notarized copy of the TWO test results indicating a "negative test result for sperm" to show I'm sterile and shooting blanks. Finally, I get a letter from a shark attorney stating he has seen the other documents and is prepared to litigate against this woman if she continues to communicate with me in such an unpleasant manner. Also, the letter states that we will insist on DNA testing to show that the baby is not mine. I'm ready.
I meet with this woman at her place. I bring flowers and a small bit of jewelry to show I am willing to reconcile and assume my responsibilities as a new father. I also have stuck in my pocket the documents I have prepared.
She's all giddy again. Her plan is going perfectly - or so she thinks. We talk about our future. We have some pretty good sex. Then, as I am about to walk out the door, I ask her the $64,000 question. "Are you sure that this baby is mine?"
Well, she goes batshit insane again. Hell, she ought to. Her plan could completely unravel if there is ANY question about my paternity. Oh, she's really screaming now. How dare I question her morals. Do I think she's a slut. I'm just trying to weasel out of my responsibilities... blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.
I'm not really mad. I'm kind of embarrassed for her. But since she won't shut up and the neighbors can hear all of this, I ask her to step back inside and sit down. She sits on the sofa and calms down a bit. She is glaring at me with all the moral self-righteousness that only a woman can muster up. She thinks she has me trapped. She is 100% convinced her plan has worked. Oh, the tangled web of lies and deceit she has wrought around herself and I am about to hack through them with a few pieces of paper.
I reach into my pocket slowly. I extract the three pieces of paper and unfold them slowly and deliberately.
I tell her simply, "You're screwed".
Her look doesn't change. There is no way she can fathom what I have prepared.
I continue. "I am sterile"
Her look changes just a bit. Something is beginning to sink in. Naturally, she reverts to women's logic. "You're full of shit. You're trapped and you know it."
I hold up the letter and the test results. "Three months before we met, I had a vasectomy. Here is a notarized letter from him stating what I had done. Here are two test results showing that I tested negative for the presence of sperm. Blanks. I am shooting blanks. That baby inside you is simply not mine."
This woman is not to be swayed by logic and clear documentation. "Bullshit, those are fakes."
I was ready for that. "No, they are real. This last piece of paper is from my attorney. It's a simple letter to you that states if you pursue any kind of legal action against me for child support that I will insist on a DNA test to prove paternity, that is, to prove that your baby is not mine."
I give the woman all the documents. She reads them slowly, deliberately. With each passing second she can feel in her soul that she has made a very bad mistake. With denial swept away, she started to cry. It's a small cry at first. Then it becomes deeper and more painful. By the time she gets to the letter from the lawyer she is sobbing.
I had no sympathy for her. I turned and walked out the door. Even after I closed the door I could still hear her sobbing.
I never heard directly from this woman again. I did hear through my friends that she did indeed have the baby. I also heard that the real father was some guy in a band she had met. I assumed that after 30, women stopped going after musicians, bikers, criminals, and thugs. Silly me for thinking the best of American women.
The Moral of the Story -
Get a vasectomy but keep it a secret.
I swear dealing with a WW is like dealing with a teenage daughter sometimes
Its like they watch TV and movies and see "adults" cheating and then have to emulate that in an effort to convince themselves that emotionally they are adults instead of the teenagers they know deep down they are.
I'm with Kite on this one...
So these WW's meet up with men who are in the same stunted emotional stage
blah, blah, blah not sure that even made sense.
Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."