"Who in their right mind does this to children?"
So all of a sudden the children matter? TC, I don't know if this is best described as denial, blameshifting, or cognitive dissonance. Maybe a combo of all three. But my wife exhibits the same thing.
Recently she told me that she was "fighting for us." Her definition of fighting is having sex with another man multiple times a week for 10 months, then getting serious about our 17-year marriage only after she gets caught.
To me, "fighting" would have involved her telling temptation to take a hike when it first threatened to destroy our marriage, but she failed that test miserably.
"I know I'm going to have to see you everyday for the rest of my life and I've been kicking myself for agreeing to marry you in the first place. Worst mistake ever."
Sorry, TC. She thinks she's the victim. I get that vibe from my wife all the time. The unspoken "I wouldn't have cheated if you were a better husband." It's never about them.
As for the remorse that came later - my wife has stopped pretending to be remorseful. It's like she doesn't truly feel it, and is tired of faking it. Her rationale - "I just can't talk to you." Raw, vulnerable conversations are threatening and are best avoided. Better to let what's left of the marriage wither away than to expose yourself to someone else's raw pain, I suppose.
From her perspective it is all because I'm not forgiving enough, not because of her A.
I am asking for everyone to send me good vibes that things might go well.
Sending strength PowerGlo. Really sorry you are going through this nightmare.
There are those here whose wives get it and do whatever's necessary for healing to happen. Then there are others whose wives instead spend their time covering their asses and blameshifting. I fall into the latter group.
For example: Mrs. Kite and her twice-divorced sister left this morning for a 10- day vacation in Ireland. She said she wouldn't be able to call me while she's gone because her cell phone carrier doesn't allow her to make long-distance calls.
I made the mistake of asking "Don't they have phones in Ireland?" This semi-sarcastic question caused this...
Followed by this...
This led to yet another hostile weekend. The bottom line is that after years of trying to make sense of WW's thinking, I'm getting to the point where I just don't give a shit any longer. The good news is that it's actually me that's getting a 10-day vacation...from the insanity and high drama.
The bottom line is that after years of trying to make sense of WW's thinking, I'm getting to the point where I just don't give a shit any longer. The good news is that it's actually me that's getting a 10-day vacation...from the insanity and high drama.
I envy you, Mr. Kite. I think the only chance I have at R is to get to a point where just don't give a shit anymore. Not there yet.
Some of you may have noticed a change in tone. R has regressed. Found out a few weeks ago that my WW told our daughter that she always suspected me of having some kind of an affair, EA if nothing else, when we lived in another part of Texas from '01-'06.
It took a few weeks for this to completely sink in, but basically my wife accused me of being a cheater, to our teenage daughter. Somehow the topic of my cheating was never addressed with me.
BTW, not only have I never physically cheated in our 17-year marriage, I can't even recall a single phone conversation, text, IM, etc. with someone else that I wouldn't want my wife to overhear. Nothing. I'm far from a perfect person, but when it comes to the "forsaking all others" part of the marriage vows, I get an A+. In hindsight I could have done much more to make her feel love, honored and cherished, though. I say "feel" because I've always truly loved, honored and cherished her. Just wasn't good at showing it for much of our marriage. And she wasn't good at showing it to me, either.
The accusation (or "feelings" that were being expressed, according to her) has caused so much rage. I may be many undesirable things, but an unfaithful husband I'm not.
That this topic came up 6 months into what I thought was a successful R process, with a renewed commitment to openness, communication, and honesty, has me reeling. So, you suspect me of being unfaithful to you going back 6-12 years ago (I haven't been able to pin down a more specific timeline than that), but that's not something you ever thought of bringing up in MC? To me directly? It was appropriate topic to broach with our daughter?
It makes me wonder if this was really nothing more than an attempt to knock me down a peg or two in my daughter's eyes. Can't really think of any other reason for this. It must be tough to be the wayward one all the time.
but basically my wife accused me of being a cheater, to our teenage daughter
The accusation (or "feelings" that were being expressed, according to her) has caused so much rage.
Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the psychological phenomena of projecting one's own miserable character traits on others. This is what might be going on here. But involving our children in that insanity is abominable.
That would bring about the Tasmanian devil in me and the beginning of a "pillage and burn" campaign that would be the end of the M.
Some of you may have noticed a change in tone
My wife fueled her affair with resentment over an incident that had taken place more than ten years prior. After an office Xmas party, she asked me if I'd date a particular co-worker if I was single (and my wife and I had never met, wife had never been born, etc., etc., -- all the 'safety zone' provisions and assurances).
I was stupid enough to say, "Yeah, probably. I could probably loooove her." (or something like that -- it's been 20 years, so I don't remember the exact quote).
I'm working, of course, within the context of the scenario that I was single, my wife didn't exist, and the theoretical me is relationship shopping. Chick X would have been on my radar (though, not really, because her fiancee was a big-assed Marine who liked to wrestle semi-professionally. Plus, he was a cool dude.)
She screamed at me *then*, then took her hurt and pain underground and cited my loooove for ex-co-worker chick as one of the reasons I clearly wouldn't care that she was fucking around.
Your takeaway: when asked by your wife if you would _______ any other chick you ever meet, the answer is no. If she mentions a specific chick, the answer is, "Ye Godz, no! That miserable goat-faced hag?! Jeezus, I thought you trusted my taste more than that!"
...and then you'd best make sure that you never, never, never mention that chick in her presence ever again. Not something she said, not a joke she told, not the fact that you accidentally ran over her dog with your car on the way to work this morning. Any "particular" woman should cease to exist from your experiential or conversational universe if your wife mentions her by name.
Particular womenz are warning shots; they are individuals your wife has picked out as sources of potential threat.
Ever admitting an attraction to another woman in the history of your post-wedding-day existence is generally enough to bring out the rage.
Post-wedding existence? Try second date. Memories of my then-supervisor's wife asking me to dance, then pressing herself too close to me on the dance floor, were enough to piss my wife off for at least a decade afterwards. I didn't encourage it, but didn't walk away from it either. Tried to save face in front of my boss and act like nothing weird was going on. Did that save me? Hell no. I was wrong, period.
And this is from a woman who willingly spread her legs for another man multiple times a week - AFTER we got married.
This stuff is crazymaking.
ETA: Thanks Tred. I think it's easy to forget that the woman who seems to "get it" post-A is the same woman who did those terrible things in the first place. Not saying that people can't change, but it doesn't happen quickly or without a lot of hard work. You would think that we'd be beyond getting fooled by someone more than once, but...maybe WE don't change that easily, either.
[This message edited by Sal1995 at 1:42 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]
"As of today, your are no longer aware of any women on the planet except your mom. And even your mom's influence should be considered suspect, and you shouldn't mention her more than once a month. But not during *that* week, if you know what I mean.
So, you can mention your mother once a month in one of the three weeks that isn't PMS week. Or maybe you should include the actual period week just to be safe.
So, to recap, two weeks out of the month, you can mention your mother -- and still no other women, nor comment on the non-existence of other women -- unless one of the other two weeks contains your wife's birthday or a holiday (excluding the minor, minor ones like Arbor Day).
Unless your wife is a real fan of Arbor day. In which case, Arbor Day is straight out."
It starts to sound like a Monty Python sketch after awhile.
That's me channeling StillGoing. How did I do?
Do not back up. Severe tire damage.
Gonna have to work on it.
Lol, JK. However, the level of insecurity displayed indicated a deep seated emotional neediness that in retrospect should have raised some flags. Back to the whole emotional needs issue.
"Do these jeans make my ass look big?"
Needs more explosions, doesn't it? And something about Captain America. Or Spiderman fucking Lt. Uhura.
Huh. On the one side of this coin is the additional blow to my self esteem that this has never happened so of course I have to see it as "Of course she isn't threatened, who the hell would bother." On the tails side of that coin, at least I can acknowledge some self esteem enough to take a hit. Maybe I should just throw the fucker down a well and make a wish.
On the vacation that felt more arduous than otherwise, of the various resurfacing anger and hurts, the thing that really floated to the top was that I can't even listen to the blues anymore, because they all seem to sing about fucking someone they aren't married to and how unfair it is they get yelled at for it.
Well, fuck the blues I guess.
wtf. I feel like I was conjured or something.
[This message edited by StillGoing at 1:57 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]
ETA: O hai, SG! I thought you were dead. Now you've ruined my homage.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 1:59 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]
No one is better off dead, except maybe John Cusack or Savage Steve Holland.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 2:01 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]