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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 13
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the things I've learned from online relationship forums is that a great many women are discomfited by the expression of male anger in any form that is not focused on protecting them from harm. Male anger is dangerous. It feels threatening because it is an expression of physical power -- in essence, "I could beat the fuck out of you any time I want; it's only the fact that I choose not to that keeps you safe."

In order to avoid that discomfiture, some women see it as their job to reform the anger out of their men (and raise his sons to stifle anger at all costs and adopt the credo that "Violence is never the answer"...when every single fucking person on the planet knows at a basic animal level that yes, violence is sometimes the answer. BTW, maybe we should start raising our daughters to just lie back and enjoy it if they're getting raped rather than resisting...because, er, violence is never the answer.)

So, a negative reaction to Uhtred's story doesn't surprise me.

By the same token, men have been trying to reform "nagging, controlling bitch" out of women for just as long without similar success, so I figure this is going to be a stalemate between the sexes for some time to come.

ETA: I completely support the right of a man to defend his sense of personal honor against another man in any manner he feels to be appropriate, so long as he accepts whatever consequences that may be. Yes, none of it happens without some stupid slut WW creating the situation and slipping on a banana peel onto strange cocks, but the OM knows what he's doing when he decides to fuck a married woman.

Fucking with another dude's wife/girlfriend is a bright line "will get your ass kicked" offense that we're all aware of by the time we're ten years old.

Compare, for just a moment, the well-worn tropes of Warrior and Weasel.

Your classic Viking Warrior is the dude who can come in with horns blaring, torch in hand, and a huge fucking sword who announces that he's going to burn down your village, take your crops, and fuck your woman because he *can*. He's stronger, faster, more powerful and better-trained.

Your average Weasel steals eggs from the chicken coop at night while the farmer is asleep because he knows that he's *food*. That's where he's at in the pecking order: he's someone else's food and can only get what he needs by eating other people's (would-be) children. The Weasel is fucking Corporal Upham from _Saving Private Ryan_ -- the guy cowering on the stairs while the Waffen SS officer stabs Mellish in the heart an inch at a time.

You remember that moment where Upham gets his redemption? He shoots an unarmed Steamboat Willy after the fighting is done. That's supposed to be his sudden epiphany of moral clarity (if you're the sort of person who hasn't been paying attention): shooting an unarmed liar to make up for pissing your pants while a sworn brother was getting murdered by your cowardice. I wouldn't call that a rousing redemption.

There is not a single case in the history of the planet where the OM is the Warrior rather than the Weasel. He's a guy taking by guile. He's fucking *food*, and he knows it. He is a coward's coward; a murderer by cowardice.

I don't spend my time worrying much about the fate of weasels.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 8:10 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

plenty of "I slapped his cheating ass" threads though...seems there was one last week.

I do remember the fear in fWW's eyes on dday.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mikey56
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Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read the JFO thread. Really made me think. Like every man here, I thought about giving the OM a beat-down. I didn't, partly because I had found this site. I did tell my WS that POSER broke the Guy-Code and deserved an ass-kicking. To her credit she took responsibility for the A. Maybe she was just trying to protect him. Doesn't matter.

Here is some food for thought.

Would you trade the beating that Utred gave the OM for the shit sandwich of the A?

I am 11 months into this dance with demons and it still sucks. If I just got my ass kicked, I would be healed by now.

Peace brothers.


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you trade it as one of the divorced BH's who lose 50%+ access to their kids, plus 50%+ of your assets and retirement, then get to pay alimony?

You reach a certain age and you're legitimately got to start looking at the question of whether you're going to divorce and probably fuck your retirement plans or keep living with a WW for the rest of your life, but maybe get to retire at 65 or whatever.

Tough questions.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you trade it as one of the divorced BH's who lose 50%+ access to their kids, plus 50%+ of your assets and retirement, then get to pay alimony?
Dang it all! When you put it *that* way it doesn't sound like such a good idea does it?


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Total Sidebar here, but I saw this and thought you all should take a look. Cover story on Bloomberg today about a guy stuck paying alimony and lost his job. Now he regularly has to goto jail. We need to fix this shit! To me this goes hand in hand with our WW's acting the way they do. We are fucked no matter what. The Ameican dream is dying for men. Almost too much risk in getting married and having a family to be worth it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-26/jail-becomes-home-for-husband-stuck-with-lifetime-alimony.html



The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 154 | Registered: Apr 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you put it *that* way it doesn't sound like such a good idea does it?

I'm sure that every option looks like a Pyrrhic victory for a while. In my state, I could of went straight to a fault divorce. I ceded that option by trying to reconcile. In order to try to see if my marriage could be salvaged I had to give up my strongest position. Crappy laws.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few things:

My main issue with some of the posters' responses to Uhtred's story was that instantly people (mostly women, it seemed to me) tagged him with the "You've got serious anger issues, you need to seek help."

Which to me, is bullshit, provided he doesn't have a history of this sort of violence.

ETA: "A History of Violence"? Great film.

I mean, we wouldn't call someone a sex addict who had a drunken ONS, provided they didn't have a history of this sort of behavior, right? We wouldn't necessarily agree with what they did, but we'd acknowledge that there were some extenuating circumstances involved with the lapse in judgement. Now if someone wants to tell him, "Hey, take the long view before you do something like this..."I can totally get behind that. I mean it honestly whenI say that this site has saved me from jail....reading about other OM ass-beatings and the fallout they wreaked upon the BM has always given me pause before doing anything nuts....and in the early stages I was always about 30 seconds away from doing something savage. I know OM. I've talked about sex with him, in graphic detail. We shared drinks, and parties, and stories...he was a really close friend. My mind movies are extra vivid because I know his face, his facial expressions and his...um....sexual proclivities? I think WAL was in a similar boat, no? Maybe he'll chime in.


Would you trade it as one of the divorced BH's who lose 50%+ access to their kids, plus 50%+ of your assets and retirement, then get to pay alimony?
This is really what it boils down to, right? I know it does for me, and I don't even have any savings and/or retirement to lose

Although I AM curious as to how many of us would happily trade a pinky finger for the ass-beating that Uhtred issued, provided that's all it cost you in terms of consequences? Show of hands?

*Raises hand*

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:47 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
slater13
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Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my state, I could of went straight to a fault divorce. I ceded that option by trying to reconcile. In order to try to see if my marriage could be salvaged I had to give up my strongest position. Crappy laws.

Same here. I was told I had to file within 2-3 months of dday to use it as a factor. So either try to save marriage or get out now. I was too shell-shocked to move on the D. Looking back, maybe I should have- just to get her attention.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 154 | Registered: Apr 2013
reallyscrewedup7
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Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you trade it as one of the divorced BH's who lose 50%+ access to their kids, plus 50%+ of your assets and retirement, then get to pay alimony?

Well, as one who made that decision, yes, I was ready to make that trade.

Of course, it was predicated on the fact that my fww was of the mindset that it was all her money anyway and unless I had it "locked down" (at least to the extent that I could make it difficult for her to access), I knew that she would spend it all unless something changed.

Translation - staying with her in her entitled mindset at the time was going to lead to NO ASSETS to worry about. It was only the divorce action that slammed that door shut. I still have to be vigilant there.

And losing 50% access to the kids. Well, not really, but only because they were older and the special circumstances. At the time, DS 19 (then 16) was not even speaking to his mother. And DS 16 (then 13) was free to go back and forth.

But I understand the concern. I just want to make sure that if anyone is in the situation to not let the fear of it override your personal well being. There is no guarantee you will get to keep what you most covet (assets, kids, etc) when it comes to dealing with a soulless cheating woman.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 879 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later-

This?

I think the lesson to be learned here it's that the mouth is a dangerous place to hit someone. I am sure Uhtred would agree, a knee would have been a better call there.

Classic.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, in the Warrior vs. Weasel thought....I think all OM are aware of this subconsciously...they know what the fuck they are....that's why you see so many examples of them telling WWs things like "Oh, I'd fight for you." or some such nonsense. OM in my case told my WW "Oh, well if [FP] wanted to punch me in the face one good time, I'd have it coming."

Ya think?

They don't really want that, but they're weasels masquerading as warriors, and they're afraid that they're going to be unmasked by WW at some point, so they have to talk like that.

About two days after DDAY, OM roommate came to me saying that there was a lot of anger on both sides and we should just fight it out. I told him to set it up, and to make sure he tells his bitch-ass roommate not to call the cops afterwards. Funny how that never happened....

[This message edited by FacePunched at 10:22 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my state, I could of went straight to a fault divorce. I ceded that option by trying to reconcile. In order to try to see if my marriage could be salvaged I had to give up my strongest position. Crappy laws.

here if you continue to live in the same house after discovery of an A, you are rconciled.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There was a time when I considered killing the OM, my WW and myself. Glad I didn't at the time.

Fast forward 30+ years, OM has terminal cancer, is reaching out to those he did wrong to apologize. Well OK, except that he confessed that he had been a serial sexual predator, had fucked "hundreds of women, most of them married". Claims an average of one a month for over 25 years. Probably bragging, but damn!

Made me wonder if I should have done him. Bad for me I know, but think of all the heartaches, and divorces, and fatherless children my sacrifice might have avoided. Sometimes, a warrior has to take the Big One for the team.

On another note, people that think gay marriage is going to destroy marriage haven't been paying attention to what the straights have been doing to it.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 11:35 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vengeance in the heat of passion is a primal instinct. This is why the laws have been set up to differentiate between those who react violently in a moment of anger and those who premeditate violence.

In my particular case the OM's were 3,000 miles away and my only contact was by phone. I asked Mrs. Kite if she had been raped. She said "No." After this she became the prime focus of my anger. It was her choice and her doing entirely as far as I was concerned.

Due to the fact that I didn't want my son raised by an irresponsible nutjob with a long line of "uncles" passing through his life while I rotted away in jail, I made the decision to let it go. My son is now 22 with his own family and he still has a mom and dad. I don't regret that decision to this day.

Now had either of the two OM's been standing in front of me when my anger boiled over and my rationality had faded away, then all bets would have been off.

"Whoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding;
He who does so destroys his own soul.
Wounds and dishonor he will get,
And his reproach will not be wiped away.
For jealousy is a husband’s fury;
Therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance.
He will accept no recompense,
Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts." Proverbs 6:32-35


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case I actually said to my WW that I was defending her from the cowardly OM.
He was in essence treating her like trash. Taking advantage of her and tarnishing her reputation as a wife and mother. Of course she was just as responsible.
I was defending my honor as well and the harm that was affecting my reputation. I wouldn't be played as a fool.
And of course I scoffed at his total cowardice. He was a weasel. He collected the scraps of honorable men that work hard for their job, home, and family. His job clearly put him in a position to exploit family weaknesses same as a pedophile, a sexual predator, likes to grab occupations that let him deal with children on a regular basis.
He was a coward. Never did he lift a finger or raise his voice in her defense. He never fought for her or expressed any feelings. His cover and the convenience of his masquerade was over. He moved on and went underground. WW is dealing with the fallout.
She is angry because he was able to pop smoke while her life fell apart.
And that's just it. He destroyed a family and the children that he befriended in the guise of a "teacher" with absolutely no remorse. His only cost was a near death experience.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:24 PM, August 26th (Monday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
HotSauce
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Member # 40309
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you trade it as one of the divorced BH's who lose 50%+ access to their kids, plus 50%+ of your assets and retirement, then get to pay alimony?

This is what I have been thinking. Plus, with my luck and her ability to make excellent choices, my kids would end up with a new "daddy" that beats them or worse.


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
HotSauce
♂ New Member
Member # 40309
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, yesterday I was feeling a little down in the dumps. Wife asks me what is bothering me. I say everything. She says she will do whatever I ask and asks if there is something more I want her to do. Asks if her still working with POSER is still bothering me, I say yes. She says she looks everyday for a job and wishes she could just quit. Unfortunately she can't. Asks what else has been bothering me and I tell her my heart is still broken. She begins to cry immediately. She asks if I think I will ever be able to heal. Unlike myself I pause for a good 45 seconds because I honestly don't know. I said I want to. She loses it balling like crazy and says she needs to go upstairs because she doesn't want the kids to see her cry. I didn't follow.

About 5 minutes later she calls me up and says she needs to be close to me. She lies on top of me and starts kissing me. Then she gives me a BJ. Im getting a BJ and I thinking does she really want to be close to me or is this just more shitty coping skills. I mean how fucked up do you have to be to not enjoy a BJ. Later she says how sorry she is and wants me to be happy.

So I'm struggling with this. Was it because she wanted to be close to me and take my mind off things or was it just more shitty coping skills. I am afraid to say anything primarily because I don't want to mess up a good thing. Yes my sex life has been through the roof and I don't want it to go back to the way it was. I have had more sex in the last 2 weeks than the previous 2 years. Man I can't believe I questioning a BJ. WTF


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I mean how fucked up do you have to be to not enjoy a BJ.

I must be really fucked up then. I won't go into it again, but I started a 4 page thread on why I don't like them about a year ago. It's a tragedy that you can't tell whether or not you are being manipulated - in my case, I know my wife will trade sex for emotional validation. It's her favorite currency.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
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