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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: we just can't communicate
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

didn't go to MC yesterday and decided to just talk at home. I'm not sure why, at a little over a year out, why we need an unbiased party to run to when we have issues but I guess we do.

He thinks I ask questions to trap him. I'm not asking affair questions. I think I asked him something about being attracted to other people in addition to being attracted to me. He answered, "yes but I'm more attracted to you." and then he stopped and told me what I was about to say, "now you're going to think about me being attracted to other people. I should have said I'm only attracted to you."

me: yes, that's what I was going to say, are you attracted to other people?

him: let's just talk about you and me.

me: obviously, the past still haunts me.

him: this is just about you and me. I'm attracted to you.

me: but you WERE attracted to two other women and that hurts. I guess I'm trying to find out if this is still an issue.

him: I wish we could just keep to the topic at hand. why can't you just say what you mean, "are you attracted to other people? Having these conversations makes me feel further away from you."

me: I'm really afraid to say anything now. I want emotional intimacy.

and it just exploded from there and we both went to bed mad, although I am a big girl who is ok with not agreeing with him.

it's just, we are both STILL WALKING ON EGGSHELLS in this marriage.

[This message edited by rachelc at 7:29 AM, August 18th (Sunday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4888 | Registered: Dec 2010
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, that's an unwinnable scenario for a guy. I read it like a trap question, too.

His choices are to either lie ("Of course I'd never be attracted to anyone else ever on the planet!") or to get punished for answering authentically.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree Rachel. You are setting up a no win situation.

Being attracted to other people is a human thing. Both men and women just are. You walk down the street and there are other people in the world who are attractive. There are people more attractive than me or you. It just is...

The thing is ... this is just being human. Monogamy is not a natural state for us. It is a choice we make. It is a choice.

Asking your WH if he is attracted to other women is a no win situation because the answer is "yes" he is. He feels trapped because if he says yes to the question, he will not hear the end of it. If he says NO to the question, then he is lying. He cannot win. You are looking for false reassurance.

The problem is not that your WH is attracted to OW. The problem is that you don't know if he will still CHOOSE monogamy when he is.... That is a different question. You want to know that he is choosing you, will keep choosing you no matter who walks by him.

(((Hugs))) I know it is not easy. I struggle with jealousy sometimes now too. I never did before.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jun 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, I don't think I even asked him that. We were taking about something else and it got to that. I think he brought it up and then volunteered that info... I can't even remember how it transpired but... That's what was said. I don't want to trap him. I just want him to know how effing hurt I am... I want to know if he's healthy. Of course I know he's attracted to other people. We all are.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4888 | Registered: Dec 2010
SandAway
♀ Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, that's an unwinnable scenario for a guy.

Yep...

And it honestly sounds like he was still trying to communicate with you, BUT you were both on guard because of the 'no win' question asked.

edited to add (we cross posted)

I want to know if he's healthy.

Do you have reason to doubt him?

[This message edited by SandAway at 8:48 AM, August 18th (Sunday)]


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe it's just the talking style. Have you looked into Imago therapy? Google it. There is a certain way that you can communicate where you are both heard and there is none of this back-peddling or second-guessing. It lays a groundwork that leads to some really good communication. Over the long term (even though we haven't done the specific program in quite a while) it has allowed us to bring things up and talk about them that we otherwise would have not brought up and then stewed over it and let resentments build.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I asked him something about being attracted to other people in addition to being attracted to me. He answered, "yes but I'm more attracted to you." and then he stopped and told me what I was about to say, "now you're going to think about me being attracted to other people. I should have said I'm only attracted to you."

me: yes, that's what I was going to say, are you attracted to other people?

how would, in your mind, the conversation continued in a productive, healthy way of communicating?


Were you looking for the answer to the question "do you find other people attractive?" or "what stops you from acting inappropriately when you find others attractive?"

To me, one is a kind of a no win question, while the other is more the root of what you were really wanting answered, and giving him the opportunity to reassure you of his boundaries, possible growth and commitment.

And for what it's worth, I don't think at a little over a year out it's unthinkable to still be in MC. It took us longer to figure out good communication. Part of that was how to ask what each of us really wanted to know, which meant sometimes asking ourselves why we were asking something to begin with. Make sense?

[This message edited by unfound at 8:56 AM, August 18th (Sunday)]


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14844 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I think, as BS, we are looking for reassurance for a long, long time.

It's ok to want to know he is healthy. Maybe he is not there yet, but working on it still. It is very scary indeed to put yourself back into a R with someone when they can hurt you again.

Reassurance is a good thing. Just make sure you are asking the right questions. My IC has helped me with this a lot. Try to get to the root of what you are really afraid of.....


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jun 2012
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I asked him something about being attracted to other people in addition to being attracted to me.

What if he had answered "yes"? What would your next question be?

Would you have punished him for being authentic?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6094 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I probably would have said something like, "ouch. "
And he just asked me the same question this morning. I took a out five minutes to answer. You don't have to jump into the trap. Just answer the question.
I said I certainly notice other people but I just really not attracted to them.
He said. But you were attracted to your AP. I said I really wasn't. I was attracted to feeing wanted... It IS possible to answer that question..


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4888 | Registered: Dec 2010
GraceisGood
♀ Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are setting up a no win situation.

In most cases this is true. I agree.

Yet, it does not have to be a no win situation IMO.

If you ask these kinds of questions you really need to be prepared to accept the answer for what it is. These kinds of questions say more about the asker IMO than the one being asked. It is an opportunity for the asker to grow, to risk their fears, to walk over the coals so to speak to the other side. You have to ask these questions to get to the other side, but the real issue is: do you want to get to the other side and are you really willing to risk the pain to get there?

As Brokensmile322 said, it is a human thing. In a way you knew the answer before you asked the question. So, what were you really asking for?

This is a great opportunity for you to see yourself more.

obviously, the past still haunts me.

Your H was attracted to others prior to his infidelity, so really infidelity does not play a role in this IMO. You could have asked this question 10 years ago and the answer would be the same, he is not NOW attracted to others since the "past". Perhaps your reaction/response to the answer is colored by how you are dealing with the "past" and that was what you meant.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3435 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see what you all are saying...

I will work harder to word my questions to what i really want to know...and realize sometimes it doesn't have to do with him but me.

on our walk this morning:

him: I know you want to put the find my friends app on my phone.

me: I haven't talked about that since last winter.

him: you talk about it a lot now and are insinuating I should have it. Go ahead and put it on, I don't agree with it though.

me: the girls (DDs) and I have it and talk about it some. I'm not insinuating anything. I just put it on my own phone two weeks ago.

him: I just don't think this is a way to build trust.

me: I do, when you trust but verify and not find anything, then the comfort level grows.

him: but I don't do that, maybe I'm stupid = I should have and look where it got me.

me: Beleive me, if i wanted it on your phone I would have found a way to put it on there (I am tech savvy, he is not)

me: You don't have the usual WS attitude. Most ppl would be "whatever you need honey" after two affairs.

him: well, when you keep hearing, "I don't know if I can do this," and "I just don't trust you yet" you get a little bitter.

me: you're bitter with ME for acting like i am as a BS?

him: We have talked way too much about this. We talked for about 3 hours total this weekend, that's about 2 hours too much for me. I will never be able to do everything right. I'm going for a run....

[This message edited by rachelc at 11:20 AM, August 18th (Sunday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4888 | Registered: Dec 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And he just asked me the same question this morning. I took a out five minutes to answer. You don't have to jump into the trap. Just answer the question.
I said I certainly notice other people but I just really not attracted to them.
He said. But you were attracted to your AP. I said I really wasn't. I was attracted to feeing wanted... It IS possible to answer that question..

Only because you have the "right" answer. What question has he asked you where you do not have the right answer yet? How would you answer something that would "incriminate" you?

I probably would have said something like, "ouch. "

Really and truly, that's all you would have said? You wouldn't have gotten weepy or caustic?

ETA: I am trying to figure out if you and he are safe for each other to be authentic and truthful. It is easy to answer questions when you have the right responses and you can be "holier" than the other person because of it. But how safe do you and he feel when you have answers that will hurt the other person?

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:00 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6094 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Only because you have the "right" answer. What question has he asked you where you do not have the right answer yet? How would you answer something that would "incriminate" you?

As truthfully as I can. With humility

Regarding your other question, yes I may have cried...

I just told him I'm not sure I'm a big enough person to stop punishing him


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4888 | Registered: Dec 2010
Topic Posts: 14

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