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User Topic: It's just porn, and all men do it so it isnt cheating.(from him)
ArableSands
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Member # 39830
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been in the position where my H was pushing me away and staying up to watch porn while I'd fall asleep hoping he'd want to come to bed and have sex. It sucks.

Sing it, sister. I worked hard to have the body I do because I want to please my wife. At 47 I have the libido of someone in their late 20s. I would have sex 1-2 times per day every day if I could. But I want it with the person I'm connected to, the person I married.

For months my wife would come to bed and roll over to go to sleep. I wanted intimacy. She was avoiding it.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vancouver, Canada
Jammy19
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Member # 39955
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my husband has an addiction to porn and chat rooms..only he wont come clean. I have foudn emails to sleezy guirls, intercpeted calls form companies sending himn porn, foudn links for chat rooms and apps on his phoen all of which he didnt do. He has been against porn since the 21 years Ive known him, and now I find hes been living this double life..He wont come clean. These girls are 18 - 21 years old. hes 54....its sick!! I am tired of the lies and all the stuff I keep finding that is digusting and sick. I feel berayed. I had a test for stds and thank God I have none. I am not into porn and just want him to own up to it, too me its cheating. plain and simple and makes me feel inadequate and ugly


never underestimate the power of you. For life is a journey and we are in control of every path we choose.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Jul 2013
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naunett, so sorry you are here.

My WH is a sex addict and he has said the same things about porn that your H has: "all men look at porn and masturbate." Well, that's all well and good, but if it's interfering with your sex life and it is hurting YOU, then there is a problem.

OTOH, if he's looking at porn and masturbating, but you still have a wonderful, emotionally connected M and sex life, then all would be fine. But I bet that's not the case, is it? How does waiting until you are asleep and then sneaking into the other bedroom to watch porn and masturbate make you feel? Does your H feel the secrecy and hiding are all what "all men do" and part of a normal, healthy M?

In the end what matters is not what everyone else is or isn't doing, it's what are you willing to tolerate in your M. Everyone else in the world could be doing something, but if it's not ok with you in YOUR M, then your H needs to honor and respect your wishes. If he doesn't, it's your choice to accept that treatment or show him the door.

Some resources for sex addiction are sexhelp.com (there's a free online test that your H can take). The same website will direct you to a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) in your area. These are the only types of therapists that can treat sex addiction; most regular therapists will be snowed by a sex addict because they are so cunning and deceptive. I went to go see the CSAT first for myself to gather information and it was very helpful. You may consider doing the same for yourself.

In the end, this will be your journey; you will have to decide what you are going to do and on what timetable. You are the only one who knows your life completely and you are the best one to make these decisions.

Hugs to you - this is so hard.

I started this post this morning, so sorry if I am missing some information that was posted later.

ETA: I hit send too soon.

[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 4:13 PM, July 26th (Friday)]


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
sadone29
♀ Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he's hiding it and can't be intimate with you, you certainly should be concerned. My H is also addicted to porn. It escalated to chatting with random women, having a 5 year long EA (with a friend online who was just 'dying' to send him naked pictures) and had started looking around for prostitutes. I shudder to think what would have happened over the years if I didn't catch him. Don't back down on this issue! It will only get worse. I second the idea of finding a S-ANON meeting. They've been a godsend for me!


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2013
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Porn addiction is real. It can be a gateway to more serious acting out or it can stay with just porn. There is very effective treatment available, but that treatment won't be worth a darn unless your H wants treatment.

If you push/control/manipulate him into therapy, its likely to be a lot of wasted time and money.

That is why you have to just figure out what you need to take care of you. You set your boundaries and then stick to them.

If you want to ensure he gets sober and into recovery before you consider staying married, before you let him back home, before_________ - whatever you need to do to protect you from being hurt further by him - then set that boundary and stick to it. Four your sake.

Yours.

You cannot have a healthy M unless you have 2 healthy people. He needs to work on that.

Our experience with Certified Sex Addiction Therapists (CSATs) have been load better than counselors who claimed they knew how to treat sex addiction.

You can find a CSAT in your geographic area here:

http://www.sexhelp.com/sex-addiction-help/sex-addiction-therapists

Protect you. This is no fun, but it is possible to get healthy, alone or together. We have.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3630 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It doesn't matter if all men do or not, if it makes you feel uncomfortable then it makes you feel uncomfortable. That it is interfering with your sex life is not reasonable.

Though, I dunno who keeps a closet full of skeet shooting clothes that haven't been cleared off the range, so to speak. That's sounds unhygienic at the very least. That place must reek of stale pancakes, damn. That on its own points towards the "Needs to re evaluate his habits" slice of the WTF pie.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7477 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgot to add: read "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. Changed my life. It will open your eyes to how you will not be able to police him 24/7. If he wants to look at porn, he'll find a way to do it. It is painful, but it will set you free.

Also, please start seeing an IC for yourself.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
Mack25
♂ New Member
Member # 38913
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will somewhat agree with yor husband. All (or 99.9%) of men mansturbate. And probably 95% of men look at porn from time to time. The ones that don't are most likely hiding it.

There is a problem when it replaces sex with a spouse.

Have you evr tried watching with him? May get you back into contact with him if you say you only want him watching it with you.


BH: Me (40)
WW: Her 38
Married 5/5/2001
2 sons, ages 5 and 8
1 daughter age 8
WW drunk make out session with me in next room
D day 3/16/2013
Trying to R

Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Colorado
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mack, I think you are giving Naunette misguided information.

He is having erectile dysfunction with her. He is waiting until she goes to bed and masturbating to porn, so much so that he has a wad of ejaculate-covered clothing in the spare room. These can be signs that the porn-watching has crossed the threshhold from "harmless fun" into addiction.

As my SAWH's CSAT told me, NO real woman can compete with pornography. There is such variety, all with a few clicks of a mouse. It is extreme stimulation that real women cannot compete with. This deadens the porn watchers desire for sex with their spouse and leads to symptoms such as ED, etc.

There are also deeper issues that lead to sex addiction such as childhood sexual abuse, inappropriately close relationship with one's mother (mother enmeshment), desire to avoid emotional intimacy. So this is a complex problem that you may not know much about.

I don't think your suggestion of her watching porn with him is going to fix this, but that is my opinion.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
Mathews
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Member # 39900
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Numbandnas,

While everybody is 100% correct, if his jerking and porn interfere with the sex life of the marriage, then there is a huge problem.. But to say that no real women can compete with porn is very wrong... I watch porn almost weekly, but can it compete with my wife,,,, not EVEN MAYBE.


Posts: 14 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Sad
canteat
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Member # 39636
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I must see this differently than most 'cause I just don't get it. I don't see how H can be labeled a sex addict from what has been described in this post. Why is everyone so quick to assume that is the problem? I would ask for more information before making this leap. How often does he masterbate? Is it in addition to sexual relations with you? Does it disrupt other areas of his life? Does he do it at inapropriate times or places? Does he spend crazy amounts of money on it? Just to throw out a few.

There is a difference between masterbating in a healthy human way and it being problem behavior. I just don't see where this has crossed the line into problem behavior. (maybe it has, I just don't see it from this post)

I have to agree with the men who posted earlier-most men look at porn and masterbate. In fact most women do too.(how many have read 50 shades of grey?-"lady porn" thats all that is.) Masterbation is a healthy part of human sexuality. It is not disgusting or "wrong" although many people think so beacuse of upbringing or religoius teachings etc. Could any of this be coming into play for you? Could your attitudes about masterbation/porn be very different from his? That doesn't make either one right or wrong-just different. That is something that would need to be openly discussed to try and gain some understanding and middle ground you both can live with. And as for him going to another room or waiting until you go to sleep-that sounds like normal behavior to me. I doubt he is going to announce that he's gonna rub one out in the other room so please excuse him for a few minutes. He is going to wait until he alone and in a private setting.

As for his erectile problems-are you SURE they are because of the porn/masterbation. It could be for a lot of other reasons. Health, age, medications, pressure. From your post I am not so sure you know what the reasons of his ED are-maybe you are assuming to know. You are making it be "about you" and maybe its not. My H had ED problems from a blood pressure medication. It took several months to sort out. During this time he was unable to stay aroused with me. He was however able to masterbate (and yes, with porn) to completion. At first I assumed the ED was because of me. But then he explained to me that he was embarrassed by the erectile disfunction and that he felt pressure to perform with me. That combo made it nearly impossible to stay aroused. He had no such pressure when masterbating. And could do it to completion with no problems.

When I explained he cheated on me sexually and emotionally with another woman.

I gotta be honest when I say that I think this is a little bit of a stretch. Do you really think that he has been with another women emotionally through porn? Porn is visual, porn is fantasy. No emotions involved. (That's why porn movies have such crappy storylines and acting. Not needed in that genre!)And he wasn't with another woman sexually. He was with another woman in his mind-in fantasy land. I bring it up because he will have some different issues to work on than others here who engaged in PAs.

friend directed me to this site before I had the chance to confornt him, and I am so glad. I had the tools to have a go at him when he came home

Have a go at him? You were on the attack (all of us BS can understand) but being on the attack is not going to open lines of communication, nor make him want to open up and have an honest dialogue with you. Maybe that's where his "grumbling" comes from.

I think that you both could benefit greatly from IC as there is a lot more going on here in addition to the porn/masterbating. The binge drinking, communication breakdowns, lack of understanding (on both sides) need to be addressed to create a stronger more intimate relationship. I think that focusing on just the porn/masterbating part is not going to be enough.


Me: BW 42
Him: WH 47
Married 9 years-together 18
Dday: 6/17/2013 EA/PA(EA 1yr/PA 6mos-OW out of state)
status: Starting R 7/22/13

Posts: 151 | Registered: Jun 2013
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mathews - my SAWH's CSAT was the one that said that no real women can compete with porn, not I. It sounds like you are not a sex addict and have a healthy attraction and connection with your wife whilst being able to view porn as well. This is not true for SAs. I am not saying that no one should watch porn (I have watched porn and would have watched it with my WH before his SA diagnosis), but when your partner is clearly distressed by it and your sex life with your spouse is non-existent, it is probably a good idea to look into not watching the porn until you figure things out.

canteat - I have never said that naunette's H has a sex addiction. I merely said she should look into that possibility.

ED is common in SAs, so that is another red flag, as well as the binge drinking. SAs often have multiple addictions.

I agree that there could be other causes for the ED and those should be explored.

I don't feel it is "normal behavior" for a man to wait for his wife to leave and go to another room and masturbate when he is not having sex with his wife. From the tone of her post, it sounds like he did this frequently and didn't appear to be trying to fix marital relations with his wife.

Here is naunette's initial post so you can reread her words. She has not been ok with his porn even before they got M (from her 2nd post on this thread). She is probably angry from the betrayal, but also the years of emotional abuse, gaslighting, lying, minimizing, avoiding, being emotionally immature. He clearly has an addictive behavior pattern (smoking, drinking and now possible sex addiction) and she is trying to control his actions as all good codependents do.

I have been married for 3 weeks. I have been with him for 2 years. after the first year, we moved in together and I noticed a change in him. I would wake up at night and he would be in the bathroom....he said he was having stomach issues.
Then I started back to school after 20 years, and I caught him red handed. literaly. We had an extra room where he would wait until I was gone to go in and watch porn on his phone and masturbate. it got so bad that when we were intimate, he couldnt get it up. I found a full load of clothes in this room that he had used for his "skeet".

He promised me no more, I caught him like 2 more times. then we were good, it was done. the i noticed he had this new app on his phone that he said was to help him watch youtube vids. I found out this week that it was so he would watch porn, and look at pictures and masturbate. He had forgotten to clear his phone.

A friend directed me to this site before I had the chance to confornt him, and I am so glad. I had the tools to have a go at him when he came home. When I explained he cheated on me sexually and emotionally with another woman, and what went into it, he was agreeable. He said he understood.

yesterday I had a panic attack so bad, I was shaking when he got home. I told him how I was feeling..how HE made ME feel, he was understanding at first, then he blew up..."All men whack off and look at porn!" He said..."And if they say they dont. they are liars or it doesnt it work, I dont get your issue, it must be a woman thing because I did not cheat on you. it was just a picture!"

I told him how about this being a human thing, how about the fact that YOU hurt another human, made them feel pain because of your actions....can you understand that! and I told him this BS abbout all men do it....so what? it should be accepted? what is it that all women do, that devistate men, but the excuse is...well all wommen do it, so it' okay? he had no answer.

He will over talk me, yell at me, leave the room while still grumbling.

I laid down the law. I tuned the data off on his phone, it will never be turned back on. He is no longer allowed to drink as well because he has a binge drinking problem, and when he does that, the worst idea sounds like the best in his state.

He has agreed wiht this...so far, I need some advice on how to keep up with the follow through. to let him know this is it, there are no other chances, he changes like the wind. if I catch him in a lie, all he says is "SO!" like a child. Or, I did it like 2 days ago...this is when after he quit smoking I would catch him doing that as well. The man seems to do what he wants, when he wants, and when he sees he has hurt you, he is sorry....for like a second, then he brushes off, and trips on down the road happy as a lark with hurting victims in his wake...


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
DecadeCentrifuge
♂ New Member
Member # 39406
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the above (canteat's post). Jumping to the conclusion that a person who consumes porn/masturbates == sex addict is a little over the top.

If there's a problem then there's a problem, but for most people, looking at porn and masturbating isn't a significant issue. I would recommend the OP communicates with her husband and gets to the bottom of what's going on with the ED thing before simply blaming the porn and forbidding him from looking at it (which will probably be an ineffective prohibition at best).

As for the suggestion above that she watches porn with her husband... I don't know what the relationship dynamic is, but my wife and I watch porn together all the time, and we use it to learn about each other. It may not be a great idea for everyone, but it does help some people communicate.

((Edited for clarity))

[This message edited by DecadeCentrifuge at 4:34 PM, July 27th (Saturday)]


Me: BH - Happily Remarried, but dealing with old stuff

I'm losing my mind in a bedroom with a ghost
and I'm losing my mind in a bottle while I choke
I stayed years with you, no one knows (but I want them to).
Thought Industry


Posts: 44 | Registered: May 2013
guiltyone
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Member # 30907
Default  Posted: 2:03 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I laid down the law. I tuned the data off on his phone, it will never be turned back on. He is no longer allowed to drink as well because he has a binge drinking problem, and when he does that, the worst idea sounds like the best in his state."

No Offense OP- but this seems really controlling. Turn off the data on his phone?

Is he a child?

Almost all sexually healthy men watch porn. If it interferes with your sex life, then it becomes a problem.

And this sex addict talk is ridiculous. I guess 99% of men are sex addicts.


Posts: 76 | Registered: Jan 2011
confused615
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Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some of you..men..are having trouble understanding what she is saying. He is choosing porn over her. He hides it. He lies about it. He has cum covered clothes...a stack of it..in another room. Their sex life is suffering.

Please stop telling her all men do it and it's just fine. It is not fine in her marriage. It may be fine in your marriage..but not hers..and that is OK. Some of you are telling her it's no big deal and to watch it with him..with a porn adddict that is NOT going to work(I did it..every damn Saturday for 4 years we had a "fuck fest" that would last 4-5 hours...and ALWAYS with porn..before..during..and after. And he STILL hid it from me. With addicts,it's not always "just" the porn..it's the hiding,the lying,the excitement of getting away with it. So watching it with him will only encourage the addiction.

Some men get very defensive over porn. Why is that? No one here is saying YOU are not normal because you watch it. What we ARE saying is if he is choosing porn over her...if she has told him it's hurting her and he continues..it's a problem.

And..as some men have said on this thread..not ALL men watch it because they feel it's disrespectful to their wives.


[This message edited by confused615 at 5:08 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To anyone who has ever been in a relationship with an SA, the issues she posted about are screaming, blaring red flags.

If you have not you likely wouldn't see it that way.

Truth is, this is a message board and none of us can diagnose him. That is why many have suggested that she try to get him to see a CSAT. A CSAT can determine if there is addiction and can set up an appropriate treatment plan. Or refer to another counselor (IC or MC) as appropriate.

Just like before many of us knew our spouses were cheating - we were unaware of the many, many red flags that identified a WS, before we knew our spouses were SA, we were unaware of the many signs of that. If you've lived with it, you can see that this WS is waving lots and lots of red flags.

[This message edited by JustWow at 6:14 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3630 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Bobbi_sue
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Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it is pointless to argue whether porn is cheating, especially when some feel "cheating" means having physical sex with someone outside the marriage.

However there are other deal breakers in marriage that can be just as serious as having sex with another person. Call it what it is: excessive porn which is interfering with intimacy.


Instead of "letting him have it" with tools found on SI, it would be better to say something like: "I agree you are not cheating, but I will not tolerate your excessive porn habit which may be a part of the cause of the intimacy and ED issues in the marriage."

It does sound to me like he needs professional help at this point. If he does not get it, I believe for me, this would be a deal breaker and would lead to the end of the M. It is not something I would tolerate or agree to live with.


Posts: 5760 | Registered: Apr 2006
canteat
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Member # 39636
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't feel it is "normal behavior" for a man to wait for his wife to leave and go to another room and masturbate when he is not having sex with his wife. From the tone of her post, it sounds like he did this frequently and didn't appear to be trying to fix marital relations with his wife.

I don't see anything in her original post that says he was not having sex with his wife. she only mentions that when they did he had ED issues, of which the cause is not clear/not known. There are other marital issues at play here that would contribute to him not feeling connected to the M and not wanting to engage in the bedroom. I don't think porn is the main issue.

Some of you..men..are having trouble understanding what she is saying. He is choosing porn over her. He hides it. He lies about it. He has cum covered clothes...a stack of it..in another room. Their sex life is suffering.

First off, I am a woman, and I don't see where he is choosing porn over her. People use porn and engage in sex with their partner at the same time. The original post only focuses on the use of porn, there is little there in the way of what the marrital sex is like or was like before. Has there been a change? There sex life is suffering-but that could be for a lot of reasons.
There is a disconnect here but I really think the porn issue could be a SYMPTOM of the larger problems, not the problem itself.


Me: BW 42
Him: WH 47
Married 9 years-together 18
Dday: 6/17/2013 EA/PA(EA 1yr/PA 6mos-OW out of state)
status: Starting R 7/22/13

Posts: 151 | Registered: Jun 2013
JustWow
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Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

canteat - you are right, the porn is a symptom of the problem.

None of us know the problem's cause.

Those of us who have experience with spouses who are SA see his behaviour as red flags.

Look, if he were going off several times a day to hide and masturbate without porn, in an new M, 3 weeks after he gets married, see any problem? Then, having m-bated so much, when he is with his real live shiny new bride, he cannot get it up because he has m-bated so much - see any problem? He's doing it a lot, he's hiding it, it is causing problems in his M.

The porn is a tool he uses to m-bate. Porn ISN'T the problem, whether he is SA or not, his behavior is the problem. His WIFE says it is a problem in the M yet he persits.

IMO, nobody here can diagnose this guy, but he needs help, the APPROPRIATE help, if he wants to save his M. If he is SA, those of us who have had to deal with that know that garden variety IC's are sorely ill equipped to evalute and treat that issue.

And there is absolutely no harm that can come by getting evaluted by a CSAT, wheter he is SA or not. They're both in for a lot of heartache and pain if he is SA and does not get treated appropriately.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3630 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
nestlee
♀ Member
Member # 39871
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not all men do it. I know a lot of Christian men..that believe porn is a form of cheating. The bible said ..lusting over another woman is cheating. Google. Dr Phil.. Pornograiphy and cheating. U will read that porn should not be a part of a relationship and it is wrong, disrespectful, degrading.


A woman needs a man..Like a fish needs a Bycicle.

Posts: 71 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Canada
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