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User Topic: Must men always be unfaithful?
Monica63
♀ New Member
Member # 40024
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

continued...
Sex Addiction

Having sex is not addictive but the chemical changes that take place in the brain during sex are highly addictive. The desire for this change in brain chemistry is what drives an addict to do things that would be considered out of character.

Such at risk behaviors include:

Unsafe sex
Consistent use of pornography
Use of prostitutes and/or escorts
Use of dating ads for sexual hookups
Sexualizing all conversations
Crossing sexual boundaries with coworkers, friends and acquaintances

One indicator that an underlying sexual addiction may be present is when someone is willing to continue engaging in risky behaviors that have negative consequences. For example, a husband will lie to his wife in order to get a free hour to meet an escort for sex. After the act, he feels tremendous shame, guilt and remorse about his behavior. Over time, the negative feelings decrease and he acts out again not because he wants to sleep with other women, but to satisfy the dopamine cravings for excitement, risk and satisfaction of sexual urges. The husband is not looking to have affairs, he is seeking sex. Sex addicts are not looking to have a relationship with the individual they are acting out with.

Sex addicts often make impulsive decisions based on insatiable urges that are very similar to drug or alcohol cravings. Consequences of impulsive decisions related to sex addiction may include:

Loss of job
Loss of relationships
Contraction of sexually transmitted diseases
Sexual dysfunction.

Oftentimes, sex addicts will also use drugs and/or alcohol to escape from uncomfortable feelings and the reality of dealing with the consequences of their addiction.


Me:BS 50
SAWH 53
DD 11/10/2012
SAWH used pornography, escorts, dating sites
Currently in Recovery

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Northern Va
sunflowergirl30
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Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scary...


Together 21yrs married 18yrs
2 kids, now 19 & 16
Bw: now 38
Wh: now 37
Mow: now 50
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1079 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
Monica63
♀ New Member
Member # 40024
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stillgoing, you said: "No, there's no actual research for that, honestly. There's not even any actual neurological research wrt sexual addiction as a neurological basis, in fact (I'm not saying there is no such thing, mind, those behaviors certainly do exist and are very real). Any research that is cited is correlation taken from other studies."

I strongly disagree. I have read many books regarding this. Dr. Doug Weiss (especially) explains it very well.

THE CHEMICALS BEHIND THE ADDICTION...

Just imagine you’re shredding the slopes as a foot of awesome powder flies up around you. Now you’re face to face with someone, experiencing the anticipation just before your lips touch theirs for the first time. Now you’re base-jumping with the wind rushing at your body as you free fall towards the ground. And now you’re alone, looking at pornography on your computer.

Every day you have experiences like these, but one of these things is not like the others. Check out how this works—there are four main chemicals your body produces that help you feel good: Dopamine, Norepinephrine, Oxytocin, and Serotonin. Now I know this isn’t chemistry class, so we’ll keep this simple. When you’re out doing what you do, your brain releases these chemicals to give you a rush, or make you bond with people or remember the details of a moment.

While the chemicals are busy helping you feel good, your body and mind are linking that feeling to what you’re doing. Basically, it’s these chemicals, and the associations they reflect, that keep you coming back for more. Now that’s cool when the experiences are good things like adventures, or hobbies, or healthy sex, but when the experience is viewing pornography, the end result can get pretty ugly.


Me:BS 50
SAWH 53
DD 11/10/2012
SAWH used pornography, escorts, dating sites
Currently in Recovery

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Northern Va
Monica63
♀ New Member
Member # 40024
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sunflowergirl,

Yes, it is scary and heartbreaking all in one!


Me:BS 50
SAWH 53
DD 11/10/2012
SAWH used pornography, escorts, dating sites
Currently in Recovery

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Northern Va
Monica63
♀ New Member
Member # 40024
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

continued...
5 Brain Chemicals in Healthy Sexual Act and How it is Different from Pornography Addiction

In his book The Drug of the New Millennium, the Brain Science Behind Internet Pornography Use, Mark B. Kastleman (founder of Candeo Can program) provides a very detailed description of the process that takes place inside a pornography viewer’s brain. In order to understand these processes, the author first examines how the brain is designed to work in a healthy sexual relationship. Then he compares it to brain activity during the pornography viewing session.

The Narrowing Process of the Healthy Marriage

In a healthy marital relationship, sexual intimacy creates powerful physical, emotional, and chemical changes:
The Narrowing Process of Internet Porn

When an individual enters the funnel through pornography viewing, the physical and chemical processes are virtually identical to those in marital sexual intimacy, but with some radical differences…

Sadly, sexual addiction is real and yes, it does affect the brain.


Me:BS 50
SAWH 53
DD 11/10/2012
SAWH used pornography, escorts, dating sites
Currently in Recovery

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Northern Va
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's been some interesting developments on SA. UCLA stating not much evidence for it and removed from DSM IV. I know that there are folks that have real issues so am not disputing that. Just stating there may be conflicting research, kind of like everything.

Think it's more an intimacy issue than anything else, but an admittedly very pedestrian opinion on my part.

Pretty much everything we do can produce chemical changes. Hobbies, hell even shopping.

No studies to back this up, just my view. Women cheat just as much as men and for many of the same reasons.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I strongly disagree. I have read many books regarding this. Dr. Doug Weiss (especially) explains it very well.

You can disagree if you like, but it there is zero evidence to support the idea that SA functions similarly to chemical addiction.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201307/new-brain-study-questions-existence-sexual-addiction


I thought there were already brain studies of sex addiction?

Surprisingly, no one has previously examined their brain in action. A few research groups included “porn addicts” in brain imaging studies of internet use problems, but none of those researchers actually analyzed the sex group separately. A couple of research groups published small structural brain studies, which means images of the brain when it is not doing anything in particular. We have colleagues in Germany who are currently writing the first fMRI results of their hypersexual patients, so anticipate more research in this area soon.

The results of the fMRI studies will be especially telling either way, and could bear out the idea that SA is similar neurologically to chemical dependency, but otherwise there is no real data. Scare sites like "your brain on porn" are uninformed and junk science sites that do far more harm than help, in that they deter people who really are suffering from getting the appropriate care, which in this case should be behavioral.

As many chemical dependency detox follow behavioral therapies it's not surprising the same structure would help, but following the wrong avenue of reasoning eventually just hits a wall and allows for a cycle. There is no magic drug here. It's still a significant unknown, and anyone who claims to be a definitive expert on a subject this murky is IMO either cashing in at the expense of people in real pain, or far too arrogant.

Chemical changes *do* happen, but as UO said, they can happen from anything - behavioral modification of the brain is part and parcel of therapies like CBT and EMDR. Actually, it's also why talk it out therapy is poison, because it continually revisits and reinforces a trauma, burning that into the brain even more.

Pretty much everything we do can produce chemical changes. Hobbies, hell even shopping.

No studies to back this up, just my view.

There are studies for that, iirc, a lot of CBT and EMDR are built off them.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7488 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What UO said. In fact, I think the odds are stacked against everyone. It's like playing Blackjack and the house has the edge. In other words, see my signature.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1217 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Monica63, your topic title poses a question about men. Which is why when you wrote this...

These self same chemicals are released when a man has sexual relations with any sex partner he has ever had. These chemicals were intended to bond a man with his wife

...you appeared to be invoking these chemicals to support your opinion that men are predisposed to cheating. I asked if women are affected by the chemicals also; you didn't answer. But your documentation provides the answer, thanks, because AFAIK none of it mentions gender. Do the chemical reactions occur in sexual addicts? IDK, but that wasn't your point, nor was your original question, "Must sex addicts always be unfaithful?"

It must be sad for you to walk down the street and regard every man as a filthy cheater. I hope someday you can disabuse yourself of that notion.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1237 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some of us, despite the sticks and stones of outrageous misfortune, stay true. There's only going to be one person looking out from behind my eyeballs. I really want to like what I see.

For the record, my profile name fits. Five long term relationships(Defined as greater than 2 years *exclusivity*), 5 cheating women. Might it not be apropos for me to reverse the gender and ask the same question?

I fully realize that this is not the case. I am attracted to *fixer uppers* evidently. If you wish, a KISA complex. I need to fix ME. I picked them.

This is the first time I have attempted R. (Thanks to this site). I do love my FWW. I hope she's up to making the changes in herself that allow her to address her issues. Believe me, I'm making changes to address mine. It won't, no can't, be the same M it was before D-day.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2995 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
DeadMumWalking
♀ Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I do not take responsibility for my fathers SA or any of my husbands SA addiction problems.

I don't think that's what ANYONE (and certainly I) was saying.

Of course you're not responsible for their behaviors and choices. But you ARE responsible for YOURS. You are 'always' (according to you) ending up with SA men. Why is that? And it is hurting you. What is it in YOU that needs changing so that you are better able to start treating yourself better and avoid this type of man?


There are no quick fixes to anything, just a choice of whether or not to try (given all the information) to apply what has hurt you in your life into becoming a better person because of it.

Well I never said fixing yourself was quick!!

But 'becoming a better person' is more like what I meant when I said fixing yourself. NOT so that you will stop 'making' all those men around you SA , but so that you become a better and happier you. THAT'S the message here, sorry you got the wrong end of the stick.

[This message edited by DeadMumWalking at 11:52 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2615 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, but to be repeatedly told..."it has nothing to do with you"..by IC's and others....and then have yet others tell me (basically)...It is ALL about YOU...
can leave a person in quite a conundrum if you know what I mean?

I think what people are saying is that you didn't make them cheat, (it's not about you) but you chose people who had a propensity to cheat (it's all about you.)

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 1:14 AM, July 26th (Friday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
standinghere
♂ Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 3:23 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Monica63

If all men cheat, then all women must be faithful.

I should apologize to my wife for my wayward ways that led to her sucking another mans cock in our garage and fucking him in our bed while she distracted the kids with a video, and blowing him in a public place and having sex in his and his wife's bed while their kids were at school and she was at work, and then having sex with him in a strangers house as well as in a local business where he worked, and in the woods near where we live, and in a parking lot.

My behavior is so shameful for causing this upheaval in our lives while I was at work.

OR

Perhaps you need to understand that misandry, which is what your views are, is no better than misogyny. They are both equally abhorrent behaviors.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 1017 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
AStar
♀ Member
Member # 39971
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you to everyone for all their personal insights and for the debate. I read it all and take away some of my own conclusions. Some of them may seem simplistic, but it is what I choose to take away from the duscussion, information, generously shared hard won insights...
I choose to acknowledge that not all men cheat. Even with my rough experience with infidelity it is not a choice for me. I also believe that not all men cheat. I do believe that cheating is a choice. You choose to cheat. It is an active decision made by a man or a woman. They are not helpless slaves to their wants and desires and at some point make that choice. If they claim to be helpless or compelled for whatever reason then see a medical practitioner or therapist and get help. I chose IC to deal with my issues with my Dad. I did not choose people in the same mould. I just happened to be on the receiving end of that persons choice. Made for reasons of their own self interest. Such has been my life. I choose to believe and have heard from men who choose not to have affairs. And yes women can be sluts too, but is it fair to think I am one based on the behavior of someone else? No. It is not fair to generalise. Decisions are made by individuals, not representative or necessarily representative and poster boys (or girls) of their gender. Stereotyping and generalizing is giving a free pass to people. I can have an affair because all men do. Rubbish. People choose affairs because they choose to let the amoral self seeking side of themselves be in charge. That or their genitals... Apologies if I offended anyone but I am grateful for your responses. The lack of insight that my post my display as a result of the discussion is my mistake alone. Thank you and lots of love and hugs to you (in a non "I want to have an affair" kind of way.)


Me BS (41)
Him WH (45). EA and possible PA (denied)
D Day 7/21/2013
M 8 years - filing for D

**The cruelest lies are often told in silence- Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 115 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New Zealand
Topic Posts: 74
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